1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

RLC#3. Genghis Khan.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by pigswill, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,099
    Hmmm, that is a tight spot you are in. Especially with Jules next to you with an enormous stack. Can you invade the smaller countries when you focus on more military?
     
  2. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    868
    After Communism, forget research. Switch to 100% espionage, staying focused on Mansa. Build/whip Jails now and Intelligence agencies later. Keep a task force ready to strike Cyrus and Mansa if needed. Spy your way to Nukes and win :D

    OFC Easier said than done :crazyeye:

    But looks like the only way out. Going with arty/infantry/marines against mech. inf is no fun. Especially against a 10+city militaristic AI. Don't even think about warring without Nukes.
     
  3. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    I think it is time to start preparing paragraph on "lessons I've picked in this game", no?

    Julius has full hands and I be surprised if you are not target.
    even if you fend him off that will kill any chance to tech up to somwhere, not sure where that somwhere could be although.
     
  4. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    I can assure that this paragraph is already prepared.

    Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism.Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Beeline liberalism. Don't overexpand. If you're going for glight prioritise exploration and open borders.

    Jules has had his hands full for ages. I am amazed he hasn't killed me ages ago.

    To win this game I would first have to stomp Jules before he stomps me, prevent Mansa launching a space ship and capture at least one persian legendary city. Bit of a tall order.

    It would be 40-50 turns before I could build my first nuke so that's not very appealing. Maybe whip out some artillery and rifles and see what happens.
     
  5. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,470
    Location:
    Terra
    pigswill, the game is definitely still winnable. Julius Caesar lacks Artillery, Military Tradition, and is nowhere near Assembly Line. This is huge for you.

    At this point, you simply need to bludgeon your way through J.C. to Persia with Artillery and Cavalry (and Rifles for defense). This will involve a number of steps:

    1) Survive. J.C. will attack soon, and you need to wipe out his stacks. Upgrade Cannons and Cuirassiers, maybe a few Muskets/Maces/whatever as well (to Rifles). Accept that you will lose any cities immediately bordering his culture. Don't lose heart: you're wiping out 3000 years of unit spam.

    2) Switch from defense to offense. After you weather the initial storm, you need to push forward ASAP. Secure your borders and then go for the big stuff. You want to cripple J.C.'s research and production centers.

    3) Clean up. Start to take J.C.'s smaller cities. After Rome falls, this shouldn't be too much trouble.

    4) Push East. You need to reach Persia.

    5) When it is obvious that you're in control of your continent, focus upon getting to Combustion and start to build a navy.

    6) Calculate the minimum amount of time needed to reach Timbuktu, and make sure that you have an invasion fleet ready to nix any space attempt.

    To launch a successful overseas invasion, you need some combination of Fighters, Tanks, Infantry, Mech Infantry, and/or Guided Missiles. Remember that the space race is only lost when MM's ship lands, i.e. 10-20 turns after he launches. As long as you capture his capital before then, you will win the game.

    If Darius is threatening to win via culture, build some Spies to sabotage any Cathedrals in the weakest of his near-legendary cities. I'd switch my espionage points to him now if I were you.

    A quick play through, to 1842 AD. Big spoilers, obviously:

    Spoiler :

    J.C. attacked three turns after your last save. Aryan was lost on the turn of war. Mediolanum the turn after than. The Zulu recapture Ondini a few turns later. The initial stack looked something like this:



    Unfortunately J.C. wouldn't cooperate and place his stack in a border city, so I had to attack it in the open field. This led to higher losses, but Drill Artillery could still attack his best defenders with generous odds.

    The last of his troops were wiped out trying to take Varanazum. After that I pushed forward:









    :rolleyes:
     
  6. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    What's this? :confused:

    Encouraging words? :)

    And presumably something encouraging hidden in spoiler tags.

    Hmm, maybe build up some cash for instant upgrades, withdraw older units from border cities and put them all in one stack. Get some units started ready for insta-whip before starting on cash.

    Maybe make some insolent demands, that's always good for a laugh.

    At the moment we do have a defensive pact with Persia.

    Is it worth swopping to nationalism? I'm not sure, more rifles for sure but also much more unhappiness and I'd have to abandon vassalage. There's also a turn or two of anarchy to consider.
     
  7. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,470
    Location:
    Terra
    Vassals are always good for an insolent demand (Shaka, SB). It's not like they can do anything when they get mad.

    Nationalism is a big no-no. Julius Caesar has the Statue of Zeus and, for such a large war in the Industrial Period, war weariness will really start to hurt. I don't think this is a big spoiler, but I've hidden it just in case. The war weariness in Karakorum on the last turn I played:

    Spoiler :

    One thing that I didn't do in my play-through, but that you should seriously consider, is whether it would be worth your while to switch into Representation and/or Mercantilism. Think of this as a means to secure +6 :science: in every city, which will get you to Communism.

    Your game may go differently to my attempt, but I think I would look to start a GA and switch into Mercantilism/Representation for this period. Run Scientists everywhere, and try to tech Communism a turn before the GA ends. Then you can switch into State Property and make full use of all those Workshops.

    If you go this route, try to use the GA to generate at least one more GP too. I think Sitting Bull has the MoM, so I'd look to capture that as a medium-long term goal and use a second, 12-turn GA to catch up with Mansa's space attempt.

    Upgrading Cannons should be your number one priority, followed by Cuirassiers (because the upgrade is so cheap). Don't upgrade Medieval units (Macemen, Xbows, Pikemen) unless it's an emergency OR you need stack defense.

    Finally, give a few of your 17XP Cavalry the March Promotion (available at Combat III). This means they can attack turn after turn after turn, without needing to stop and heal.
     
  8. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    That's a tight spot I'm in. Especially with Jules next to me with an enormous stack:



    (19 rifles, 15 knights, 17 cannon).

    Especially when I've been making some arrogant demands:



    Shaka coughs up! :lol:

    Jules' other vassal Sitting Bull is still a pal and gladly gives 80g and a map to a good friend (that's us).

    Even Darius will spare us 100g.

    Jules isn't such a good friend however:



    He refuses to give us any cash at all :mad:.



    :eek: :suicide:

    Spoiler :
    I swopped every city to artillery for one turn before reverting to wealth. Upgraded a few artillery. Whipped artillery everywhere when Jules declared.

    Jules declaration invoked our defensive pact with Darius which should hopefully tie up SB on the eastern front.

    I gathered our outlying garrisons into one stack leaving each city with a token defender.




    1804. Jules captures Aryan.

    1806. Jules captures Mediolanum and Ondini.

    1810. Shaka captures Varanazum.

    Spoiler :
    On the other hand our stack has annihilated Jules main stack and sundry reinforcements he sent to hold Mediolanum. Artillery rocks :D.

    We've just recaptured Mediolanum.

    I've divided our forces into two stacks ready to take the offensive.



     

    Attached Files:

  9. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,099
    The tension is rising!!! Will Pigswil be able to fend off and break Jules???? Stay tuned in another exciting episode of the RLC. Papadapam!!!!! :D

    Good luck Pigswill.
     
  10. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Papadapam!!!!! :D

    Six turns and 12 years later.....

    Jules has been very kindly researching constitution and democracy. Vox populi rules ok!

    Having seen Jules airships it belatedly occured to me to build one ourselves for a bit of aerial observation.

    I finally had enough of cowering inside our own borders slaughtering invaders.

    (1812 Recapture Mediolanum).

    1816. Recapture Varanazum.

    1818. Recapture Aryan.

    1822. Recapture Ondini. Capture Ravenna!

    1824. Lick wounds and ponder....



    The eastern front seems to be pretty lively as well. Darius has picked up 2 generals, Sitting Bull has picked up one of his own.

    On the subject of great generals Karakorum has been building a collection of military instructors:


    We've also got 3 medics. Maybe I should save the next GG in anticipation of acquiring Milsci at some point.

    Jules has got three destroyers wreaking havoc on our western coast and we've got nothing to counter them. So far he hasn't added a few boatloads of rifles to go with them. Maybe he hasn't learned to think Beyond The Gladius ;)

    Jules' power is now only twice ours :).



    Rome via Antium seems the obvious move.

    Needless to say this has involved sacrifices. Our population has been decimated by whipping, on the other hand if our cities were any larger war weariness would be an even bigger problem and cities would still be working the same number of tiles. I'm getting by on a mere 20% culture slider at the moment. Maybe let cities grow and raise culture as needed in anticipation of eventual peace.
     
  11. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Genghis didn't build an empire by sitting around licking his wounds and feeling sorry for himself.

    Onwards....

    1832 Capture Antium

    1834 Capture Satricum (obscure west coast city).

    1840. Capture Rome.

    A combination of superpowered artillery and very friendly RNG meant I didn't lose a single unit :D. No doubt I'll get hammered soon. Should capture Bactrian (another obscure coastal city) next turn.

    Need to heal up main stack and split it to go for Neapolis and Cumae next. Jules still has Statue of Zeus somewhere and WW is a bit of a nuisance.

    My comment about 'Beyond the Gladius' may have been ill advised as Jules has 12+ destroyers in Poverty Point and a few transports heading along the coast.

    Jules' power and score are falling slowly but Shaka and SB are still firmly vassalised at the moment and I don't want to think about peace before their alliance is sundered. Meanwhile Darius is becoming more cultured, WK has joined the Apollo Club but at least Mansa hasn't started on his spaceship (yet). No doubt that's another line I'll come to regret :sad: in the near future.

    So here's a quick overview of the battleground:



    A save:
     

    Attached Files:

  12. a0161613

    a0161613 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    55
    Go down fighting. Good stuff.
     
  13. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,099
    Brings out the popcorn. This ending should be good!!!! Nice battle so far Pigswill.
     
  14. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    868
    Keep it up! :ar15:

    Nice writeup.
     
  15. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    528
    Location:
    On a trade mission
    Very nice read so far! Don't give up, mate. If pigs are to fly, bullies like JC must be put down! :p
     
  16. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    You may (or may not) be wondering if I've lost the game yet.

    The answer is 'not yet but getting closer':



    Darius is getting posher by the day, Persepolis is almost Legendary in its poshness.

    Mansa has held a soiree to show off his gleaming thrusters.

    Some interesting stuff has happened:

    Sitting Bull founded Mining Inc in 1848.

    WK founded Alco in 1870.

    Great People have been born.

    Wars are being fought. Darius and SB seem to be at stalemate: 2 generals each and nothing much to show for it. SB is too small and Darius too refined.

    Shaka and SB both have infantry :eek:

    We're still grappling in the dirt like the savages we are:
    Spoiler :

    1842. Capture Bactrian.
    1848. Capture Neapolis, wrong city.
    1852. Capture Cumae, right city, we now have Statue of Zeus.
    1854. Capture Nubian.
    1854. Much happiness (or less weariness) means we can start researching communism.
    1858. Capture Poverty Point.
    1860. Capture Bulaweyo. Get a general, put him on sabbatical until he can found a military academy.
    1868. Capture Arpinium.
    1870. SB has had enough and renounces vassalage, he is free at last (but still at war with Darius and us).
    1870. Capture Nongama. Shaka can break free next turn should he choose to do so.
    There's not much left of the once mighty Roman Empire:




    We have finally learned communism. We make a trade:



    We have a chat with Jules: 'You've been driven into the tundra, your armies have been massacred, your vassals are abandoning you. Maybe we should, like, um, make a deal. Maybe something like this:



    Jules accepts. He's still annoyed with us, I can't imagine why.

    Geronimo (yes that really is his name) founds the Native American Geurilla Warfare Military Academy in Karakorum.

    We've had a GS lazing around in Ning Hsai for absolutely ages. Maybe we should try out one of these Golden Age things, maybe wait a bit longer for cities to grow/ come out of revolt etc.

    Do I have a plan? Don't be silly, plans are for clever people.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Actually I do have a plan. Its just not very good.

    i) Prosecute war against SB. Cannon to eliminate defence, airships to weaken defending protective infantry, artillery to stomp infantry and maces/cuirassiers to kill off weakened defenders, hope he capitulates fairly easily.
    ii) Prosecute war against Shaka (assuming he goes independent), aim for annihilation.
    iii) Prosecute war against Darius to capture Persepolis and maybe try to vassalise him.
    iv) Prosecute war against Jules: exterminate exterminate etc.

    ii) and iii) are interchangeable.

    Regarding research I'll start with combustion. maybe I can get corporation from Jules or SB then research AL.

    With railways and maybe extensive workshops when I swop to SP I'm going to need more than the 10 workers I have at the moment.
     
  18. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,653
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    I told you it wasn't very good.

    1872. Shaka says "I want to break free, I want to be free" and he is.

    1874. Time for one of these new-fangled Golden Ages.

    Also time to update civics a little bit:



    We're in the money.

    1876. Hurrah, more workers to build more railroads.

    1878. Our pitifully small forces manage to capture Cahioka, but we lose an artillery :mad:. Blooming protective infantry :aargh:. SB is down to two cities but 'we're doing fine on our own', hmmm, time for a medication review.

    1882. WK obviously has some kind of delusions of grandeur and builds the United Nations. Who's his opponent? You guessed, numero uno.



    We vote for us because we're selfish.

    Capture Mound City without loss, that's more like it :thumbsup:. SB is now reduced to one 1pop city and agrees to capitulate.



    Totally misleading screenshot. SB won't surrender corporation. Its almost tempting to annihilate him but wasted enough time already. Make some deals including the return of Cahioka, Mound City and Poverty Point.

    I did think about ending the set at this point but cat-slaying curiosity won out...

    1884. I wanna be elected.



    Bizarre. SB voted for WK, presumably before he capitulated, but he gets 32 votes for the cities I returned to him before the polls closed. That's not very fair :(.

    We've got a small stack poised on the borders of Persia because despite moonshots and star struck dreams of diplomatic victory Darius is still sneakily sneaking towards a culture victory:





    Our maces have been doing a grand job so far, having cut their teeth on rifles they've graduated to stomping infantry. Maybe they'll get upgraded to Serious Sam Infantry. Our knights having more than earned their spurs might also get upgraded to cavalry.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,099
    This is just wow and a very bold plan. I guess part 1 worked. Now for the other parts. If you manage to win this, then respect :) Go for it Pigswill! You can do eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!! (coockie for movie reference).
     
  20. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,410
    Location:
    Dreamtime
    How about switching back to slavery, whipping more units [more cavalry in far cities especially] and capping Julius in next two vote window [13ish turns]?

    That would be enough for UN win before Persia goes all legendary I think.
     

Share This Page