RLC#3. Genghis Khan.

[Manco Capac]

[...]bellow. [...]

Not intending to annoy people (true this time), but this.

I don't mind if you call me grammar nazi.

@pigswill. I seriously doubt the war plan will work. Fighting with Medical units in this game will be very slow and ineffective. JC is likely to get some key mil tech such as MT, MS to defeat you.

Even worse. And this move is so typical from Julius. At least, it's not a beeline.
Do not look at it, Pigswill.

Spoiler :

For first you need ask good expert as all bellow is my sincere opinion but it lacks deep knowledge.
For little I get if you get two cities of them and kill 50 units while they kill 50 units of yours and get two cities it is not equalized. I used to believe their succes and your succes are calculated seperately - so he counts war as quite success on his side. when all vassal crap, power crap and not sure how AI values stuff likes praetorians comes in.
Also threaten cities function - straight now between Shaka and julius - they at least formally threaten 4 of yours while you threaten like non of them.
In other words Ai understands who is winning as good as AI is understanding how to do war. That is rather poorly.
shaka can build muskets and don't be surprised if building caravels s factored in too.

Basically if you two would keep on going recapturing same city [even with more losses on his side] I think that would be more and more succes for Julius.


For second you need to get to his core cities - Antium/Rome/etc. now there is no other way out. Why you were/are building infra [harbours at start of war and epics now] is beyound me.

There is not any threatening city factor in war tribute. But mentioning it is good because under AggAI, yes, threatening cities become a factor. Weird input from the devs, but that's how it is.

 

[Soirana]

I tested and he was willing to give something as costly as Monotheism.

About 30ish beakers left in it is costly?

Well. I hoped you would detail why Julius war tribute is rather astronomic. Sigh.

 

[pigswill]

Thanks to you all for guidance/explanations. Its true I have a lot to learn (I've made lots of mistakes early game which have come back to bite me, hopefully I won't repeat them in another game).

After looking at Soirana's save I went through and fiddled with tile allocations (max hammer/commerce, min food) and even I can gunpowder in one turn.

I'm still wondering about finishing HE is Karakorum, with four MI and decent production its a pretty good unit pump.

 

[Soirana]

I'm still wondering about finishing HE is Karakorum, with four MI and decent production its a pretty good unit pump.

Are you planning to make units right now? Cause if no I don't think there is hammer decay on national wonders.

Overall between my character and my english I end doing rather harsh comments quite often, don't take these too hard on yourself.

 

[pigswill]

I'd rather have harsh comments that are more useful than kind comments that are less useful ( and life is imperfect) though I'm happy to have both.

If I'm going chemistry>steel (and I can't really see a better alternative) then having a few lvl4 trebs to upgrade could save some time. In terms of unit maintenance I can always replace some garrison warriors with garrison medieval if it becomes too problematic though assuming I regrow cities asap free unit support should increase.

 

[Soirana]

I
If I'm going chemistry>steel (and I can't really see a better alternative) then having a few lvl4 trebs to upgrade could save some time.

I liked plan installing some sort of economy first lot of better, lol.

 

[pigswill]

So I've played a whole turn. Got gunpowder in one. Killed a few more units including Shaka's stackette vs Ondini, lost a couple of units defending.
Jules won't take peace!
Trade gunpowder to Darius for optics +490g.
Beg monotheism from SB.
Now Jules will accept peace (how many xs in extortion?):



Go through cities again, maxing commerce and food, building wealth, slider up to 30%. GE will bulb 1160 beakers to chemistry but I'll wait a couple of turns for cities to grow and hopefully GE will contribute a bit more.



Most cities are building wealth. Karakorum will complete HE because it would be nice to get it done before the next war. Ning Hsai is working on NE because my GP production is basically non-existent.

 

[Manco Capac]

I'd rather have harsh comments that are more useful than kind comments that are less useful ( and life is imperfect) though I'm happy to have both.

I hope my comment doesn't pertain to the second category, otherwise I can insult you to make it harsh.

About 30ish beakers left in it is costly?

Well. I hoped you would detail why Julius war tribute is rather astronomic. Sigh.

Well, excuuuse me princess *link*, I'm not DanF5771 with his bazillion tools. I know he has handmade python tools that let him to know hidden numbers like war success. I'll take it as a thanks because that's how code divers are treated now.

Trolololo

And yes I did not know he partially teched Mono. I know SB accept a beg as big as 70 gold, which leads to think he hadn't been begged much.

I'll perhaps try to see how are valued those cities and perhaps after all it is simply exactly valued like Ravenne+GunP+couple hundred gold.

 

[pigswill]

So we used optics to build a caravel and have met up with Mansa and WaKo who are of course miles ahead tech wise and someone's built the Kremlin just to rub it in.

After a couple of turns we reopened borders with Jules and Shaka and made a couple of resource for cash type deals.

Our cities have been focussing on growth and the economy is very slowly improving. By waiting a few turns GE ended up bulbing 1300 beakers rather than 1150 and we've just got chemistry and started on steel.

Karakorum has completed HE. I noticed Jules was building a new stack on our borders so Karakorum has been building a couple of units. I've also signed a defensive pact with Darius because it might (just might) become relevant. I really don't want to whip our cities back to nothing again but we'll see what happens.





Our peace treaty with Jules has just expired. He seems to have enough on his hands......

 

[a0161613]

That's a massive spike...

 

[pigswill]

All quiet on the western front (surprisingly enough). For some strange reason (maybe DP, maybe units in frontline cities or maybe just RNG) Jules didn't pick on me. Instead he declared on Sitting Bull in 1490 (and hasn't taken a city yet).

I whipped NE in Ning Hsai. Mansa built SoL in 1525. That's about it really. We're up to 1545 and our cities have grown to the point that maintenance is becoming a pain and emancipation misery is beginning to affect city size:



We've also just finished researching steel and some trade options are available:



I'm tempted to trade steel to SB just to slow down Jules a bit more. I'd also need to give SB some iron but I've got one spare.

Astronomy is the obvious tech trade.

The other tech trade depends on a strategic choice. One option would be to get education, build some unis and Oxford and research towards communism and artillery for a later war. The second option would be to trade for milsci, whip cities and go for a gren/cannon war vs Jules.

I'm inclined to go for the latter (which would also involve theatres and culture slider) but I'm open to advice.

 

[noto2]

Yes, give SB steel and iron, it shouldn't even be debatable. It's like the CIA slowing down the Soviets by sending Stinger missiles to Osama Bin Laden, what could go wrong?

 

[pigswill]

Not a lot if I stop trading iron. Sitting Bull surviving is less hassle than Jules getting another four cities even if SB has some cannon.

 

[pigswill]

Not been getting much advice but on reflection I reckon I'll continue peacefully for now while hopefully building an economy and heading for artillery. While I could possibly do Jules some damage with cannon/gren I'd ruin my economy in the process and have to rebuild all over again.
Trade for astronomy and education as a starting point.

 

[pigswill]

I've been avoiding this because I'm 99.999% certain I'm staring at a humiliating defeat. Its not so much the difficult start but my poor decision making that's led us to this debacle.

Ah well, let's play on until its undeniably hopeless....

 

[Stewie0416]

Even if its an unavoidable disaster, I'm still genuinely interested in the ending. Play on!

 

[Shaandore]

I would also like to see how this plays out. Don't give up just yet!

 

[pigswill]

I have in fact played up to 1795.

Still alive. Still losing.

I'll post the game in the next twenty four hours for general amusement and derision.

 

[pigswill]

What does a decent immortal economy look like?

Not like this.

Brief synopsis:
1545. Trade steel to SB for music and nat. Steel to mansa for education and theo. Steel to WK for astronomy. Get some overseas trade routes.
1555. SB capitulates to Jules after losing poverty point.
1605. Discover miltrad, trade it to WK for PP.
1615. GE in Ning Hsai, moves to Emerald City and rushes OU.
1645. Discover scimeth, everyone else has it already.
1665. miltrad to SB for RP (everone else has it already).
1675. WK vassalises to Mansa.
1705 Learn Biology. Get a GS to partbulb physics.
1710. Trade bio for rifling and steampower.
1725. Mansa builds Apollo Program.
1740. Learn physics, start on artillery.
1745. trade physics for economix and lib. revolt to FM and FR.
1785. Mansa builds Pentagon.
1790. Mansa builds Broadway.
1795. Artillery.

Civics wise we're running HR, vassalage,slavery, FM, FR.



Obviously miles behind Mansa, WK and Darius.

Jules has learned combustion and is currently working on physics. Hopefully he'll go flight>rocketry next.

On the other hand Jules could be thinking that if you're big you don't need to be clever:



Darius is probably thinking you don't need to be big or clever as long are you're cultured:



And I'm thinking can I really win the game with this?

 

[vranasm]

I just wanted to say that I still watch this, but am clueless how to help you...

the only thing came to mind "Nukes"