Roadmap to success

[rponton]

...So I've just stepped up to Deity level of playing, and things are not going great. I'm not getting hammered per se, but I am not achieving success either. My old techniques are not working well, and I'm looking for advice. I can hold my own, but I just seem to be petering along, making little progress. Gone are the days of being first on all of the lists. Here are the days where I am 4th on the list (of 5!!) I've played with all of the governments, and haven't found success anywhere. How can I keep up in the tech race, when I need o devote so many resources to defense? I know I can't expect to build all of the wonders, and not even all of theones I want. Deity seems to require a whole new blueprint of gameplay, and I don't have one. I've been following all of the general advice threads on here, but it can be difficult to sift out the info that is relavent to Deity. Any help would be appriciated.

I also wish to extend my gratitude to those on this list. Without all of you, I would never have made it to this level of play. So thankyou.

 

[ElephantU]

Suggestion #1: Make a Plan.

- Are you playing Single Player or Multi Player?

- Are you aiming for a SpaceShip victory or Conquest? If Restarts are On, consider the former, or at least delaying your Conquest until you are in the middle ages.

- Do you prefer a lot of small cities, or a small number of large cities? There are trade-offs, but both ways can be won.

Deity level combines all that you have learned at lower levels, particularly the happiness maintenence and speed of production skills. The AI is not any smarter at fighting, but has been given several "shortcuts" (cheats?) dealing with its own happiness and production. The best way to adjust to Deity level is to try to cut your usual game down to the bone. What is "extra" that you can do without? Where can you simplify or shorten your early development? For example, City Walls and Barracks are not important to early development, unless you have a belligerent neighbor, and then only in the border cities. Can you "pacify" the neighbor with selected tech gifts (obviously not PolyTheism or Mathematics!) and use the saved production to grow faster?

There is a mulitiplicative nature to getting ahead in the tech race, but you have to be choosy about the techs you pursue. Make a Tech Plan for each game, based on whatever techs you get as "freebies", and find a way to know ahead of time what your next tech choices will be and what the consequences will be of popping that hut or accepting that tech trade. I like an old DOS utility called CIV2PLAN, but better ones are out there. Focus on getting out of Despotism first, then get some happiness techs and shoot for a limited number of key Wonder techs. Make embassies (or Marco Polo) with your neighbors and trade for a tech they have that you need rather than researching it yourself.

Often on Deity level players confront bad habits they need to relearn. City growth and citizen happiness are critical, so the techs necessary should be top priority. At the same time, not getting something before you need it is a good plan too. Getting to MonoTheism without any way to build Mikes Chapel quickly is a big waste. Plan ahead to have caravans on the way to the city you want to build it in. Building Wonders in the turn after you get the tech is a required skill (there is even a way to build it ON the turn you get it, using "zoom to home city").

The most often neglected aspect of Civ is Trade, so if you are weak in this area study the threads on Trade and practice using it for earlier gold bonuses, faster Wonder building, faster tech discoveries with lower Science settings, long-term one-way Trade Routes with your SSC, and using freights for building spaceship parts.

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by ElephantU
Getting to MonoTheism without any way to build Mikes Chapel quickly is a big waste. . [/B]

...except if you are involved in early conquest (vet crusaders are by far the most versatile unit in the early game).

Otherwise, I do agree with any piece of advice given by ElephantU.

 

[ElephantU]

If I was doing Early Conquest, I'd shoot for PolyTheism (Elephants) and Trade (Marco Polo), and consider Feudalism (Sun Tzu), then shut down research to focus on taxes for RushBuying. The +1 for vet Crusaders over vet Elephants (7/6) does not seem worth all the extra research. The side benefit of early research shutdown is that the AI seems to follow suit.

Otherwise, I agree with any piece of advice given by La Fayette...

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by la fayette
Otherwise, I do agree with any piece of advice given by ElephantU.

Originally posted by ElephantU
Otherwise, I agree with any piece of advice given by La Fayette...

Get a room! (Just kidding)

Actually I would pay the most attention to the last paragraph of ElephantU's response. The ability to manage and take advantage of trade will turn a struggling civ into a powerhouse faster than you can imagine. While there are ways to win at deity that do not require this, it is certainly the most reliable and powerful tool within the game. Learn the power of both the one-time delivery bonuses and the ongoing trade routes.

Assuming you're talking Single player games, one thing I occasionally recommend is to try separate deity games using two approaches that are almost completely opposite each other: the One City Challenge (OCC) and Infinite City Strategy (or Sleaze, if you prefer) - aka "ICS".

These two strategies are very powerful ways to play deity games and are often a recipe for success, but they go about it in drastically different ways. In OCC you focus all your effort on the building of one city that is so well developed and dominant that it allows you to outperform all the AI Civs. In ICS you use rapid expansion to build so many small, relatively undeveloped cities that you can overwhelm the other civs by sheer strength of numbers.

Try each strategy, see how they work, and most importantly, understand why they work so well. They you can take what you've learned about each extreme and adapt to almost any situation in a more "Traditional" game, balancing expansion with focused development of key cities.


Edit: Note the single quote in the ICS link is causing difficulties with the url tag, so I guess you have to cut and paste the URL, unless someone knows how to format that correctly. Sorry.

 

[la fayette]

It wouldn't be polite to discuss the virtues of vet elephants with an elephant, even if it is an ElephantU (just kidding ).

More seriously, I do agree that it wouldn't be wise to wait until Monotheism before waging war. Polytheism and vet elephants are fine. But it takes time to conquer the world and you often come close to Monotheism without having seriously researched it.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

If you're going for early conquest, you usually go to feudalism to get SunTzu. At that point, Vet Knights are right around the corner without wasting time on those silly religious/philosophical techs. All the power of an elephant, but a little defense against any possible counterattack as well.

 

[rponton]

Thank you all. I just finished my first game yesterday. I won by spaceship, but it was not as pretty as my prior wins by spaceship. Apparantly, I need a ton more military units in my cities for defense. I won in 1857 with a spotless reputation. But around 1550 AD, the other three surviving empires all started getting crazy aggressive and sneak attacking me, stealing techs, conquering cities, you name it. All I could do was watch, since I was building factories and anything else to get myself ready to build my spaceship. I had all my spaceship techs stolen by the time the game was over. The killer was, the turn before I landed my ship, I lost my ssc (not my cap.) There was not enough time to build military and retake it, so I lost almost all of my wonders. Overall I had 1-2 military in each city, with 5-8 in my cap and my ssc. They were not the best units, mostly riflemen, and some partisans I got from "desparate partisans take to the hills..." after I lost various cities. All told, I probably lost 8 cities to the three civs.

It's apparant to me that the AI gets more aggressive in Deity. How can I keep them more pacified? Or do I just need to keep my military up with theirs, and let my science slow down?

My SSC was drawing 585 shields per turn, how can I get that up? I had all the good wonders, stock exchange, superhighways, university, and any other city improvements that help science and trade. I had three good caravans. Science at 80% (20% for luxury) Incidentally, I had a twin city with everything but wonders, and was getting 138 shields per turn, so, if there are any doubters, SSC is critical.

Any help would be great.

 

[funxus]

The AI will do whatever they can to stop you once your space ship is on its way to AC. Some techs also triggers the AI to be more agressive towards you (Industry is one IIRC). Whether you're playing classic or MGE also effects the AI's aggresiveness, i.e. MGE is much worse.

To avoid the situation you got yourself into, don't hesitate to give in to demands if you are at risk of losing a city/vans or you don't have the upper hand. Gifting techs (and money) is a good way to keep them happy, and if you gift the right civ you can also reduce your beaker costs.

If they come to attack you anyway, use offensive units before they can even get to your lands/cities, and if possible (i.e. they are not in demo) you can bribe their units. Destroyers/AEGIS can protect from transports and other incoming ships. Armors (and even vet. mech. inf.) are good to keep your lands clean.

I assume that with shields you mean beakers, because a city producing 585 shields is impossible. I assume you have the appropriate wonders and improvements (remember SE doesn't affect science the least, but is good for growing the city), you say you have routes (getting these larger does quite a lot), but what will get you several hundreds more are all the scientists you can hire once your city grows large enough. Up to size 36 (specialists have no effect after that) you can have 16 scientists and a fully productive city. Each scientist provides 18 in the SSC in the end game IIRC, which means 288b extra.

So, once you have everything you need for the SSC, make sure it grows so you can hire scientists and get good routes for your SSC (airports and superhighways help IIRC).

 

[rponton]

Originally posted by funxus
I assume that with shields you mean beakers, because a city producing 585 shields is impossible.

Dude, it was 7:30 AM, I hadn't had any coffee yet. And yes.

 

[ElephantU]

A really good SSC, founded on three or four trade specials, with some rivers or ocean-front, and three decent trade routes, should be pumping in something like 1000-2000 beakers per turn. It should be size 25-30, have Colossus, Copernicus, and Newtons, SuperHighways and as much trade-enhancing terrain (roads everywhere, no forests, etc) as possible. Shakespeares can help with happiness issues.

Also agree with funxus: "the best defense is a spirited offense", at least to hit them before they get close to your key cities. Set your Tech Path to bee-line for the SpaceShip techs, but reserve the off-techs to keep up your military. Don't build a lot of defenders, they will be obsoleted quickly; save up some money so you can RushBuild the latest units when you see them coming for you. Keep some forward deployed attackers with some Dips/Spies near potential troublemakers and try to mess up their home cities if they get aggressive. The tough part is balancing this with continuing the main drive toward Spaceship.

Sounds like you are playing MPGE, rather than Classic/2.42. Buttering up the AI is worth trying, but it gets harder after Indust and much harder after SpaFli. Swallow some "pride" and see what you can do. Dont try to get them to Worshipful; spread out the gifts and just try to keep them around Neutral or Receptive. Check the F3 list at the beginning of every turn and see if there are little things you can do every other turn.

 

[rponton]

I actually am playing classic. I do however have trouble "swallowing my pride" as it were. Will attempt to be more flexible in the future

 

[Old n Slow]

Noticed that you had rifles for defense. At the spaceship stage of the game, rifles won’t do much either way, so after launch, start thinking about having a boat’s worth (say eight units) of military quick strike force per continent. My choice of eight units? Half howies, a couple of tanks, a jeep & a spy -- in fact have a few spies on hand (with a few $K in cash) just in case.

I’ll usually have one vet Jeep per port, two for the SSC, and if I have Stealth, have a few of those (one or two in the SSC) wonderful Stealth fighters at hand. Cranking down towards the end game I get a little nervous about having ONLY rifles for defense (even with OCC), so I’ll try to set aside a reasonable sized city (say 30 shields+ -- cash in a rifle & out comes a new jeep next turn) or two erect barracks & crank out vet jeeps; if need be a few other cities will do the same & voila -- offensive materiel comes on line for invasion & profit…

 

[mardukes]

Originally posted by ElephantU
A really good SSC, founded on three or four trade specials, with some rivers or ocean-front, ...

This is one of the things that make me wonder what game I'm playing. One has to start Colossus in one of your first 3-4 cities or it will be long gone and you can't finish all your exploration while delaying city building. How common is it to come across such a location? Am I playing too many games beyond 4000 BC? Should I have played with the game settings so as to enrich the geography?

One other question: does the AI aggressiveness change by applying the patch to 2.42? I am awestruck by the number of players who espouse leaving cities undefended.

 

[funxus]

Sometimes you find the perfect spot, with 4 specials and a river. If you use hutfinder, it'll be a lot easier to find a 4 special spot, because you know where to look.

Sometimes a four special spot is found in the sea, or the whole radius is covered with forests, which doesn't make a good SSC despite the specials. So, sometimes I just try to fit in as many river squares as possible in one city (adjusting to make it a harbor or water-free).

Once the barbs stop showing up on the sea, and you start having control over your enemies, there's no point in keeping the defence in core cities. With a railroad network, a spy and an offensive unit on the continent, you can deal with any unexpected visitors if you're not certain.

 

[Old n Slow]

Originally posted by mardukes

How common is it to come across such a location? ...

Common enough for a decent SSC, maybe not an optimal one. In some situations (e.g. starting on a small isle) you may have to settle for "second best". It helps to start your first (and second) cities in reasonably 'good' sites and with the early searchers see if there is something better for cities 3 & 4. After all, there could be trade offs -- having a bunch of river spaces can easily offset a couple of specials.

If nothing seems exciting, then there is the oh well effect.

 

[mardukes]

I see now that my observation is due the fact that I was unaware of "hidden" specials. Now I see how things are better than I believed.

 

[geofelt]

My SSC is almost always in my palace city. This city must have both trade and shield capability without needing settler improvements. Most early wonders are lost because the city can't build it fast enough, not for lack of techs. Later, when caravans are available, production is not so important.

 

[funxus]

With good production in the SSC early on, it's a lot easier getting the early wonders you want. A wheat is also good, because then you can place a lot of serfs on forests (or other shield squares) without the city shrinking.

 

[sethos]

Good trade specials (for a SSC) are;
gold, wine, whale, silk, gems
Medium are:
fruits, wheat, (you can change it to silk/wine with engineers). musk oxes.
If you have forests on rivers, don't irrigate them - you will have both: good trade and good production.
As it is mentioned, trade is the secret an the key for winning. Have at least one spy in every city - for bribing purposes.
In some games, I build tons of spies if the enemy is in Demo:
I poison the water supply of the AI cities until the cities are size 1.
They will loose most of their military units that way (they cannot longer support them), and they will switch to Fundy or something else where you can bribe their cities for cheap prices (some of your spies will have become vets).
And spies are good for sabotaging attacking units, so that they can be killed even by weaker units.