Rod02-Caesar's Confusion

[Kulko]

My guess is China or Russia but definitely not Egypt.

 

[Rodent]

Dwetzel is indeed up and Kulko is on Deck.

Want to hear my 0.002? Here goes-

We definitely dont want to make a decision regarding any cities until IW comes in. We do not want our 3rd City on SoZ, not until we can get the area developed.

our 3rd City should be in direction of the blue enemy, where exactly I leave up to you guys.

That should be our preferred mode of action. Any challenges? Feel free to speak.

 

[DWetzel]

I can't see why we want to attract any more attention than necessary by moving toward blue. I was thinking that N-N-E would be the "safe" next city site. Lots of chops to get things going fairly quickly.

 

[Rodent]

You tell me then, do you want AI cities encroaching on your Capital? We will attract lots of attention soon enough, so that point is null and void. We need to put a city between us and the nearest AIs. However, if the entire team is against me, feel free to place the city N-N-E

 

[Kulko]

I do not see the point on avoiding our nearest neighbors at a crowded map. They will find us anyway. Good placements are more important.

But I think the placement DWetzel is suggesting is better. If only because it is easier defensible.

 

[Rodent]

Erm, it may be defensible, but we do not know what is on the other side of that forest, AI
Civ for all I know. If we found a city there without seeing and find an AI on the other side, the city will be in a pickle at least until we can get our first legions up.

 

[darski]

Here is the link. It looks like this is a replacement for Rhye's colors.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=303007

Optional's colours do not give you a separate colour for every Civ. I had several duplicates on a small or tiny map.

Rhye's has the best colour replacement although I have combined a couple of colours from Optional's colour to Rhye's for my game.

I will try to upload my file wiht the best of both worlds.

 

[vmxa]

I thought that is more or less what Optional did? Anyway I loaded your up. Thanks, just anything is better than 3 civs with the exact same color.

 

[vmxa]

I don't see any advantage in finding anyone any sooner than we have to met them. OTOH I am not worried about one nation on any given border. It is the guy on the other side of the immediate neighbor that will cause the excess pressure.

IOW 3-4, not a big deal, 7-8 a big deal. Once we met civ A, we shorten the time till we met who ever is behind them.

We surely want to buffer the capitol with other towns, but that we can do or we die. We have no idea what is in some of the other direction, but for sure we know someone is close in one direction and they have at least two towns.

Me I would just go to the next site that has the most potential in terms of shields and getting up and running.

The one thing going towards blue does is incorporate the most likely iron tiles. It could also allow us to kill them before they can gear up for war. If they do not have WC or BW our archers could take them down.

You may even be able to find them with no defenders as they probably have only a couple of warriors and they may be out scouting.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I think the most important thing for us in settling is to place them to fit our needs and not let enemy action be what chooses where we place cities. So we A. grab resources B. place for shields/food/commerce and C. make sure it can be defended. The enemies will come whether we meet them now or later, but theres no reason to hurry up the meetings. BTW, I'm not seeing a dot map, so it's hard to decide what is the best without a picture.

 

[vmxa]

Here we have a possible layout. Orange goes with the straight 3 move. If the one 333 is actually getting the river, it is best. If it does not incorporate what looks like a river, blue is better. Blue has one thing extra as far as Rome is concerned. It give it an extra tile.

This would normally be an issue with coverage, but until Electricity, we cannot cover it in 3 moves anyway. The river forces and extra move.

The light colored one is just a normal in the CxxC. It use a grass tile, but we get the ivory bonus for the plain, so it should be fine. The problem with heading towards Germany or Babs is we run into those swamp tiles right away. We have those mountains as well, so food will be an issue. It does give us another lux though.

I would expect that one direction is going to be closer to water than any other direction. That direction is very likely to be in the direction of the warrior. If so that would be a safe direction to build. If I knew for sure it was not a long trek to water, I would like to cut off the access going that way by building out to the
coast. The problem is it would take at least 4 more towns and give us long front. We will have to have a long front sooner or later though. Given the plains we can see, I would least want to built in that direction. It also will probably be a long ways to any coast.

The light circle is probably the second least desirable direction to head after the ivory is grabbed, but I could be wrong. So to me I am good with going toward the blue or towards the warrior. We will need to do both fairly soon anyway.

The report of yellow suggest Egypt in that they have scouts. It could be someone else like Khan. He also has scouts. Does not really matter as we will see that scout real soon. The good news is it does not have to mean they are right on top of us. If it was a warrior, then they are close.

Just know that I never made a dot map in my life. I am a seat of the pants person.

 

[TheOverseer714]

You did fine, though it is nice to number each dot if using the same color or use a different color for each dot. I think we need the Ivory if we want Rome any bigger, I was trimming its population by building settlers, I think it could build settlers between unts for some time yet. I guess next thing we'll do is find the Iron, because that wil be the make or break thing with this game.

 

[DWetzel]

Well, I have played, 11 turns (you'll see why). Much to discuss, things are just heating up! Save attached.

Spoiler :

Preflight--CA2, Notepad open.

2150 BC (0): Switch Veii to an archer. I swap the mined BG to Veii from Rome for one turn. Can still get a 3-turn spear from Rome at 6/7/7 spt; this should yield an archer in Veii next turn. Nominally this slows Iron Working by a turn, but it'll pick back up.

2110 BC (1): Veii archer-barracks.

A light PURPLE (Viking?) border has appeared directly to our north, immediately north of our ivory. Ack! That's not good.

This makes settling to the northeast that much more attractive, obviously. I move the settler into Rome, and both workers as well, in anticipation of roading up that way.

The border to our west is sort of a Persian green.

2070 (2): Last turn of Iron Working = 80%.

Move rArcher into Rome, move workers, settler, spearman northeast.

2030 (3): Iron Working in; Math at 70% in 27 (-1 gpt, 18 gold in the bank). Lux to 10% for Rome.

Our iron is directly under Veii; the city center is making 2 spt.

Rome spear > legionary.

1990 (4): MM a bit at Rome and Veii to get barracks a turn sooner in Veii.

1950 (5): Found Antium N-N-E of Rome (barracks).

1910 (6): Veii barracks-archer.

1870 (7): Rome legionary-legionary. Lux to 20%.

1830 (8): zzz

1790 (9): zzz

IBT: Our Egyptian welcoming party, in the form of two warriors, arrives on the volcano.

1750 (10): Move vSpear our of Rome to cover mountain.

IBT: Warriors move past mountain toward Antium.

1725 (11): Rome legionary-archer. Veii archer-archer.

IBT: One Egyptian warrior suicides on our spear in Antium (3/4). [1-0]

IBT: Holy shnikies. We are approached by a Portuguese scout, a Mongol rWarrior (they are the ones to our west), and a German rWarrior.

1700 (12): I stop with no units moved; we have much to discuss.

Portugal: Up Pottery, Wheel, CB, 20 gold. Down Masonry and Iron Working.
Germany: Up Wheel and CB. Down Iron Working.
Mongols: Up Pottery and Wheel, down Iron Working and Alphabet.

Cliff notes

We have a third city, Antium, northeast of Rome. We were beaten to the ivory by someone.

We have 2 legionaries (both in Rome), 4 archers, 3 spears, 1 warrior, and 2 workers. Rome is making 10 spt as it is, and is stable at 20% lux with two MPs.

Next player needs to DOW Germany, Portugal, and Mongols, all of whom arrived this IBT.

The picture:

Spoiler :

 

[vmxa]

Don't worry about the ivory, we can still plant were we intended. We can let someone else built SoZ for us as it is likely that all the ivory is some place in this area.

I am not sure we want to built archer any longer. They cannot defend and will have to be exposed on attacking with 4 nations. Legions can handle being attacked by warriors and even archers.

We may be able to postpone using a Legion for a few turns, but not for any great amount of time.

Germany is the blue we met, so they had archer to start with as well as spears. I think I would go with the 333 town next and aim to take on the Germans.

 

[Rodent]

We need a few more legions, would 4 be a good starting figure? I agree with virtual machine that we cannot hold on on Legions any longer. And as far as our first target is concerned, Germany could be first, but we can also go for a nearby civ that doesnt have spears yet.


The Mantle now falls on Kulko to greet all these neighbors as nicely as possible and then cut them into pieces. Virtual Machine is on deck.

 

[Kulko]

Don't worry about the ivory, we can still plant were we intended. We can let someone else built SoZ for us as it is likely that all the ivory is some place in this area.

I would prefer the first option by a lot. It takes ages for a regent AI to finish even the easiest jobs.

I am not sure we want to built archer any longer. They cannot defend and will have to be exposed on attacking with 4 nations. Legions can handle being attacked by warriors and even archers.

We may be able to postpone using a Legion for a few turns, but not for any great amount of time.

I agree in principle, but would keep the GA as far back as possible. But with four AI armies coming soon, it is probably not much longer feasible.

Germany is the blue we met, so they had archer to start with as< well as spears. I think I would go with the 333 town next and aim to take on the Germans.

With all the rivers germany sounds like the worst target. I m even unsure about when to plug in the one or two town there as they would have to take care of themselves.

I would rather go for the West (Mongolia, and the guy next to ivory)

 

[Kulko]

Cities

How about a complete dotmap for our first ring.



I would settle red and green as the next two spots.

Tech
We can trade for Pottery and CB but can get TW only when we are prepared to give away IW or Math.
I wouldn't want that.

 

[vmxa]

I am fine with any or all of the trades. They will have IW very soon as some civs start with BW and will head for it immediately. It is ok if you elect to not trade Math and or IW.

I think a wall in Veli could be useful.

The yellow is too close to Antium, which also will want a wall.

Is there an advantage to build on the ivory, rather than the grass. I can see it cannot be cut, but it cannot be worked either. It should not take a long time to push our borders back and insure its safe use.

I would not be surprised if a Legion could sit on it till then and be safe. Longer term having the ivory to work is good.

I think our best best is to spread out along the German line as we are very likely to be able to seal the front. We will know after a short time, if that direction does hit water.

Getting one direction where we cannot be attack via land would aid our efforts. If we cannot then not much is lost.

 

[DWetzel]

Can we get CB from Portugal for Masonry, then trade Alpha + CB to Mongols for Wheel? We are "close" for Alpha vs. Wheel from Mongols. That would seem doable. That gets us Wheel without giving up anything of much value. We're still out Pottery, but I can live with that.

Fair point on the archers vs. legions--my thought was to delay the GA as long as feasible, but if we can't, we can't. I do note that Egypt has iron, so, soon enough we'll need them anyway. Sure would be nice to get a fourth town out and running before the GA though. I'd vote for 333 as the next site, even if it is not on the river (it's not).

 

[Kulko]

Why do you want to work the Ivory? Its only a gold bonus and gold boni are not canceleed when under a city?

My placement was made to find good distances between the cities, but I agree the green spot is ambigous.

as for techs, you are probably right, since we won't build granaries TW is the better tech. that trade should work.