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Role Play Challenge: Shaka A Gentleman of Culture

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by madscientist, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. CivMcNut

    CivMcNut Having Fun At It

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    That whole economy thing you got now is really worrisome, I mean essentially you're running at 60% wealth and you're still loosing a decent chunk of money each turn. Maybe you can convert some people into merchants, slap down some cottages, or build some markets and banks. I have a hard time fighting a war if my science slider is down going into it.

    You're right to want to take out Catherine though, once you have bad relations with her, she's the type that will wait until you are least prepared for a fight then come after you.
     
  2. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

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    Take the breather so the WW goes away, then FINISH HER! She's not the forgiving type, so reinforce the SoDs for the next round.

    As for the Culture victory, you can prep Moscow to run a GArtist farm. Farm everything, build the Hermitage, Theatres etcetera and run as many Artists as allowed.
     
  3. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: Part VIII

    Alright, we are halfway there!!! No not killing off Cathy, we essentially did that, but now the second part. We need to right the economy and rush towards that culture win before HC can win the game. For the record HC is getting close to electing himself a UN diplomatic win!

    First of all we accept Cathy's peace offer. A few turns ltaer her and GK declare peace, but only a ceasefire, not a 10-turn treay. We finish of military sceince ASAP and start on some grenaders.

    Note how the powergraph is from last round. Cathy took a beating while we stayed status quo.



    Also a very interesting thing happened.



    well now, aint that a nice surprize!

    And the vote



    Which we declare war on Cathy. Followed by



    My strategy is to let Khan take her core cities while I knock out those northen and southern cities first. If she capitulates I do not want that culture pressure.

    Very quickly we take and raze the first northen city.



    we then split that force and send them northeast and northwest for the 2 coastal cities which I plan to keep so we can lock up several happy resources.





    This was using our veteran outdated force. The newly built grenaders are heading south.



    That's one. Also GK has captured several of Cathy's western cities.

    Powergraph numbers, Cathy aint doing so good now, is she.



    What remains of the once Mighty Russian empire.



    Now really consider what has happened in this game. I destryed Joaoa, Cathy destroyed DeGaulle and essentiall Saladin, and GK and us ar edestroying Cathy. Right now it's a three man game.

    Oh yes, remember the AP vote, well semas like we all agree to hate Cathy. Too bad one of her razed city was her only AP city!!!



    So we get some brownie points from HC.

    Our entire sourthen border is cleared



    we razed two more NW cities



    GK took her last large city and capital, and Cathy capitulated to GK, holing up in the tiny city of Lyons. We quickly sue for peace with Sal.



    The tech situation


    Think I can get Cathy to make a trade with us?

    The Zulu empire



    And victory conditions.



    OK folks, we got our third culture city. Both Moscow and Lisbon have been culture bombed once. The Zulu capital is decent but will need some serious culture slider help.

    So where do we go now?????

    Rebuild the economy. Well OK.. banks/markets/grocers. Ignore military for a bit

    Culture in the big three. Yeah we can start that, artist specialists galore.

    Corps? Yeah right we'll never get there fast enough, but we will try.

    Techs? well we are sort of stuck there. Noone to trade with.

    Speaking of techs, we are teching steel. Where do we go after that? HC has at least physics and we have some "we demand emancipation" unhappiness messages.

    Also, let's hear the suggested civics. Right now we have HR/Nat./Caste/Merc/Theo

    EDIT:
    One last thing, Diplomacy. We are in a tight spot. If we incite GK against HC (which I believe we can bride GK to do) then we are in trouble if HC rolls over GK. Likewise if GK actually starts laying it on HC, he could be an uncontrollable monster who looks hungrily at us while we try and culture our way to victory. Generally GK can be a loyal friends, but he will likely ask us to fight againsy HC and every refusal results in more bad blood.
     
  4. NintendoTogepi

    NintendoTogepi Noble Pacifist

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    I'm not sure if you've answered this or not, but I'm just curious, why haven't you wiped out Saladin yet?

    Shouldn't it be relatively easy to wipe out his two cities?
     
  5. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    At this point you really shouldn't need to war anymore. Just try to get HC up to at least pleased if at all possible so he won't attack you. If there are no more wars Genghis will stay at friendly, as long as you keep giving in to his demands and he doesn't convert religions or go free religion (never ever seen this happen). A friendly Genghis is not a threat.

    The game is won as long as HC doesn't beat you to legendary. Just farm your capitals and get working on the artist specialists.

    Tech situation is more or less irrelevant for a culture win. You don't need corps or broadcast towers or wonders for it.
     
  6. Bobbalouie

    Bobbalouie Chieftain

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    I'd keep HR going for now, now running emancipation gonig to make keeping people happy a bit harder than usual. Keep the Caste System. Switch to Free Speech and Pacifism if your economy can handle that. With all those artist specialists, you might aswell try to get faster GA's.
     
  7. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt IX

    OK, I am crusing along with this game now but decided an update was appropriate. Basically we stpped producing any military units, are running artists galore in the three cities, pumping our GAs, and building infrastructure in the remaining cities. The culture slider has not been adjusted yet, so we are teching as we normally would.

    First of all we shifted civics, taking the pricey pacifism.



    We made a trade for cash with our Mongol friend



    All the while we look for every opportunity to hike the science slider up anotehr 10%.

    There was a question about wht I did not finish off Sal. Why should I. As you can see



    Sal is none too popular. we even got the AP to force HC into the Sal dogpile. I went to a phoney war about three times in this segment, just to keep GK and HC happy. Cathy still makes unreasonable demands and basically we tell her to drop dead. By the end of the segment we have caught up with most of the techs with her.

    While Shaka plans to live the rest of the game in peace enjoying all the artists performing arround him, he is not stupid and continues to build military techs.



    Out techline was Steel/Printing Press/Scientific Method/Biology which actually allowed us to



    Hey we actually could trade a tech to HC! Some of you will question this, why get him closer to the spaceship, but I am betting we get the cultural victory first or GK goes after him (he did once this segment).

    WE also got the gaurentee of not getting into a war with GK.



    And HC is generally smart enough not to initiate things against either of us. The question is if Khan can hold his temper against HC.

    We also got some ash from GK



    And got this



    I am not sure this trade was worth it as I do not plan to adopt emancipation if we get democracy. But a tech is a tech.

    The victory conditions



    We definitely need alot more GAs and perhaps we can luck out and get one GM for sid's. Forget the later wonders, HC already built Broadway.

    Diplomacy



    Pretty simple. Either me GK and Cathy against HC, if it comes to that.

    And the three cities





    I'll keep you updated with any unexpected occurences.
     
  8. Morgrad

    Morgrad Attack Rodent

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    Looks like you have this one wrapped up. Broadway and Rock and Roll could be scary if HC built/builds them in his 2nd and 3rd cities - 50% more culture could make him out-race you.

    Save your GAs until they will cause you to win - don't burn them early as it might be a wasteful use.

    Wait until you see HCs teching stop (meaning he's maxing his cultural slider), then bribe Ghengis to attack him and max out your own culture slider FTW.

    Is this Epic or Normal speed?
     
  9. Morgrad

    Morgrad Attack Rodent

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    Nevermind - just checked the 1st post - it's Marathon - lol. Cuzco isn't even Legendary yet, eh?

    In that case R&R and Broadway are serious concerns - a 50% culture bonus when neither of you are even halfway through the race is seriously concerning - but I still think you have this wrapped up. As many GAs as possible, tech normally until HC stops doing so, have your lapdog attack him, then slider it up.
     
  10. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    My RPCs are always marathon speed so I need 150000 prelegendary city.

    It's not even close to being done and a MAJOR event has occurred.
     
  11. Echo of Celts

    Echo of Celts Just Plain Crazy

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    Madscientist,

    I have always loved your RPC's and would usually read parts of them, mainly the beginnning and end :),

    But I must say, this is my favorite so far, I am hanging on every psot waiting for the next.

    Great job.
     
  12. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: The Bitter END!

    Sorry folks we tried. We made a heroic attempt to wrestle that third legondary city from Catherine, but HC was too much ahead. The unhappy :sad: recap.

    First thing all hell broke lose as HC declared war on GK, causing us to declare on HC because of teh defensive Pact. Obviously a major erro in diplomacy here.

    HC rips very quickly through Mongol lands (and here we thought we could bribe GK into taking HC down!). After a while we could get peace from Hyuna for 500 gold but before Incan battleships pillaged Lisbon seafood.

    We did everything we could to repair relations, including a fairly decent trade



    But the object of our doom has arisen.



    Of course HC does not auromatically ask for a diplomatic win, which he has enough votes to do. HE drags it out.

    As you can see in teh vote



    Khan is almost gone.

    Soon after Cathy breaks away from Khan capitulating to HC, and immediately GK capitulated to Hyuna. So the world against Shaka.

    Now we still tried win this thing popping some GAs, but agrevatingly getting THREE prophets! Well one was for the Buddhist shrine, one for a GA, and one sat arround and preached to the masses of the Zulu people while we waited to see if another great person popped out for anotehr GA.

    Have a look at the former Mongol lands



    Yes, Incan tanks versus our rifles ( and we havce few of those). I have been there before. But we still struggled on.

    Like I said, HC seamed to delight in dragging this thing out, using to UN to force us into FR. Damn, pacifism for those fast GAs were our only hope.



    But still we played on, hoping in a mere 500 turns we can get enough culture in Moscow to win.

    You can see the victory screen, yes HC is ahead in all and even built Apollo.



    We just popped a GA in moscow, and culture bombed him. I guess HC did not like me even looking to pull ahead in the culture race because...



    Now I would still fight it out until the end here if it was just HC. But I do not want to see Russian Cossacks pillaging our lands, so that's the end.

    ANother failed RPC, but sure as hell was alot of fun!!!!!!!!!

    Reasons for our loss:

    Very simple, we waited too long to hit Cathy. Probably should have taken her out before Joao. The Mongol DP was a mistake but I have a feeling I would still have seen Incan tanks in our lands anyway. Ulandi should have been farmed and a GA farm sooner.

    The annoying thing is that we came so damn close to pulling this off.

    SO what does everyone think.

    Do we restart another Gentleman Shaka game, using 2 hemispheres instead of the Pangea map.

    Or do we move onto the next game.

    Asoka and the Doomsday Machine: Asoka (who must found Buddhism) stuck on a PAngea map with the games biggest war-mongers who do not start with mysticism. Asoka must convert all to Buddhism or FR, then he can win Via the AP, UN, or domination. War is only open to non-Buddhist leaders. Oh, Once Asoka techs Buddhism, the god will grant him a gand weapon of defense, a modern armor tank which must remain within cultural borders (I'll need someone willing to take the save and use world builder to give it to us).

    I'll go either way. Thanks for the help on this one!
     
  13. bestje

    bestje Big Game Hunter

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    to come so close and then not win... :sad:
    especially after pulling it back from the middle game when you were considering restarting, even in defeat really well played.
    I think this a good variant and should be played again but maybe after a change of pace with the Asoka game?
     
  14. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

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    Really bad luck with your opponents. Joao and Cathy, the both Rex pains, as your closest neighbours. The wonder/tech monster, the Holy Idiot(I really hate him, but he is in each game) and the Mighty Khan. Only De Gaule was a "good" neighbour, but it was not enough.

    Anyway I vote for new Shaka game with the same rules, but at 2 hemispheres. It is a lot of fun and Asoka can wait!
     
  15. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

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    Good for you for trying to stick it out.

    As for the next RPC, why don't you go ahead with Asoka for a change of pace, then try Shaka again? I like alternating Builder and Warmonger games myself, and after a long game as Isabella with nearly continuous war against technologically superior AIs, I'm going to play a Builder game with Rameses. In your case, mayhem from the get-go might be refreshing, instead of having to make nice with the neighbors.
     
  16. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    I really thoight you were going to pull it off after taking out Cathy. Bad Luck!
    I do hope you have another go at Shaka some time, maybe not immediately.
     
  17. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    I really think your big mistake in this game was not taking out Cathy first, then Joao. I started a shadow game a week ago, and instead of putting hammers into Stonehenge, I put them into axes/impis. I went worker, worker, settler, ikanda, warrior warrior. I settled next to the bronze asap, built an ikanda in city 2, and both cities started churning out C1CR1 axes and impis. Cathy only had two cities up (Moscow & St. Pete), and I only lost 2 axes taking her down. I immediately went after Joao, taking his 3 cities easily (both Cath and Joao only had archers). After that, I spent a lot of time in peaceful isolation rebuilding my economy and filling in my empire. Eventually DeGaulle and Saladin started settling near me, and I made them my best buds. HC and GK hated me, but I was completely sealed off from them by Sal and DeG. I built the mids, parth, HG, Sistine, Notre Dame, etc. It was one of the easiest wins I've ever had, and I usually struggle on Prince! :lol: By the time the others began settling near me, Moscow's culture created a huge buffer zone. I eventually took 2 french cities loaded with fully developed towns and plantations via culture flip (and DeGaulle was still pleased with me!) :crazyeye: I won in 1887 with around 45K points (my biggest win ever, which shows you I'm no ace at CIV. ;) ) after bombing 10 saved GArtists. :nuke: I just made sure I never was at less than parity militarily, and kept Chuck and Sal happy (they were never less than friendly, usually pleased). I declared fake war on HC and GK several times for diplo points, but never sent a unit - they couldn't touch me. :lol: Every time HC showed up demanding a tech he looked like he was going to have a coronary! It was so much fun blowing him off with impunity. :p
     
  18. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Congrats on the win, and glad it was a workable situation!

    Alas, I am the first to admit I make my share of mistakes. Not the best player but entertaining.

    I am glad to here someone shadowed the game and won. Makes me rethink things in the future as far as an even faster rush.
     
  19. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    Well, I love following your games. I've really learned a lot through following them. I make lots of mistakes, too, but somehow this game just came together for me. I've never played marathon before; it always seemed soooo ssslllllooooowwww to me. But playing this game I started to develop a real appreciation for it; it's nice to build an army that doesn't become obsolete in 20 turns. :lol:

    Anyway, keep running these games - I'm learning a lot. :cool:
     
  20. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    huiefanista, I certainly understand. Every so often there are game that just fall into line or games that are just a lost cause. An example from is a recent off-line Charlemange game on an arid Pangea map. AS I mentioned in another thread I think Chuck is a poor leader to start with, but somehow everything just fell in line in that game. Got a domination win in 1600 AD before I even got steam power or physics, unusual in marathon for me.

    I can see how this Shaka game could have been played better at the very start. Well not played better, I think I did OK, but played different. The key was probably cutting that copper source off completely from Cathy, so you probably teched BW before I did archey. Getting the copper was what I wanted to do with Cathy, but was slowed up by it culture flipped and getting Stonehenge for the free monuments. Perhaps this should have been my exception to the "archery rule" as I knew I hed to get those capitals early.

    Glad you follow the games! And again thanks for the feedback on the shadow game!
     

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