Role Play Challenge: The Crusades!

could you move the warrior up on the hill and see how close to the coast we are?

I am split on whether to try and found your own religion; on one hand it is great from a RP angle and having the shrine of your religion may be a boon to your economy since you will be focused on expanding it so much. However with the open border restriction, having a religion come in from a neighbor could help diplomacy a bunch. Also avoinding founding an early religion may help you from avoiding strange tech choices like delaying COLs or Philo.

Can you use a missionary and have open borders with a neighbor if they have no religion in the early game? If so found your own if you can.
 
The Crusades: In search of the True faith

Justinian begins his quest for the true faith! He start by sending his warrior on a few missions, the first being to the sourthen hill to see if there is in fact coast there.

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A little unclear. Justinian moves his people 1 W and waits a single turn.

We send the warrior scout a little further south, showing us MORE water, and rice.

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The coast ends up being a large in-land lake! Can we build a lighthouse here, I don't think so. While we can get the rice in the BFC if we settle 1 South, We also lose some serious Production to the north. Justinian kneels and prays. To whom, he does not know as religion has not endtered the picture yet, however he is a very pious man.

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Food and production. Rivers are not that valuable here.

How did we proceeed?

Techpath: Hunting/AH/archery/mining/BW/agriculture/Pottery. Yes, religious guidance and inspiration must wait until we can feed ourselves!

Our warrior ran into Barbs, got XP (woodsman II), and 120 gold

Early build order: Warrior/Warrior/Worker/Warrior/Settler (real early as you will see why) and a barracks.

Very soon we meet the first AI

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Not a very pious looking leader! In fact, he has the look a materialistic minded person without a true understanding of teh power of faith! This heathen will surely, wait we are heathens also at the moment. Never mind.

We did scope out some lands to the south, which is where Joao lurks

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Jungle as a natural border right now.

We then meet

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Who is rather close. In fact directly NE of us!

After AH we find

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WoHoooo!!!!!! Horses in the BFC! We begin to spam out chariots after building the settler and a Barracks.

The settler went

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2 gold with ample food options! We shall cover the alters of our god (when we find him) with Gold!

After BW

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We find we have no copper. Nor apparently does anyone else at the moment!

The early production of our capital.

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And to see how busy it was

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9 Chariots await..........

We saved here. looking for some advice :D

Sure I knw what it will be, but I still ove to here it. We have no official God to lead us, I say we need to find some human sacrifices, particularly BABYLONIAN sacrifices.
 
Already pretty different from the shadow (How different? I settled 1S on turn 1 and teched poly 1st while making a settler...)...interesting. Well, I'll limit what I say since after that I know the map, but I agree with your decision here - even though you're a heathen, he is too!
 
Ahh the chariot rush. Hope to see you pull it off Mad!
 
Concerning the second city, why didn't you settle 1W to get ivory in your BFC?

The only thing you would lose would be instant access to the cow, and if it was for the health you already have 2 cow in your capital's BFC. :confused:

Edit: Too many plains? Wanted grasslands?
 
I settled there too (IIRC not my 2nd city though). You see the land, right? Other than the jungle immediately below, commerce is at a premium here! Ivory is great to have, but as far as working it plains ivory = mine with minimal commerce, and I don't think he's settled that particular site for hammers anyway...

He has easy access to ivory no matter what to the west.
 
Concerning the second city, why didn't you settle 1W to get ivory in your BFC?

The only thing you would lose would be instant access to the cow, and if it was for the health you already have 2 cow in your capital's BFC. :confused:

Edit: Too many plains? Wanted grasslands?

I think that's what it was, judging from the screenshots. Too many plains in a city is something you want to try and avoid early in the game, unless absolutely necessary.
 
I think that's what it was, judging from the screenshots. Too many plains in a city is something you want to try and avoid early in the game, unless absolutely necessary.

Necessary like arid tectonics maps, maybe, where it's the only thing you get :lol:.

That aside, even DaveMCW says "ignore plains until biology". Not cottage them. Not workshop them. Ignore them. They're not strong tiles for a long time, sadly.
 
Really? I had a perspective of plains different from all of yours, I thought they were neutral, I didn't really care because plains are better than tundra, ice, ocean, coasts (wait, that's debatable better not spark another argument!).

Anyways, that makes sense.
 
for me, a plains tile=a workshop tile.

with extra food generally available, the 2 hammer tile if you lack the hills +1 with guilds (Justinian), and +1 with replaceable parts is a 4 hammer tile.

Then again, I'm big on the food economy.
 
for me, a plains tile=a workshop tile.

with extra food generally available, the 2 hammer tile if you lack the hills +1 with guilds (Justinian), and +1 with replaceable parts is a 4 hammer tile.

Then again, I'm big on the food economy.

This only helps when you have enough food to work the plains tiles. If you have a ton of plains this won't be happening any time soon!

Cottage cities don't really need much in terms of hammers anyway.
 
Played this to 1832. I don't think I'll finish it - it'll be an annoying (but otherwise easy) manhunt that's much better left to our entertaining host than me. Below are some screenies that should sum up how I'd decided to end this:

Spoiler :
First, I used all those hammer cities to quickly churn out EP buildings, then build wealth so I could self tech. Note the EP/turn @ 0% as I steal about 10 techs from here on out, until there's nothing left to steal:

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The AIs decide to distract each other because they want to make sure they utterly lose:

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And this is why, IMO, it's game over:

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Wait...why does that mean game over again?

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That's why :devil:.

I can just SPAM nukes. I can steal anything in the game I need from anyone in 10-15 turns without the sldier, but I'm the runaway tech leader. #1 in land and pop as well.

I don't feel like systematically nuking and razing every single city in the world that I don't currently own for the moment, so I'll call this one quits. It's been fun but the early religion choice and the capturing of 40% of the land made this way too close to a normal monarch game for me. Using EP to steal rather than trade was an interesting lesson though - you can get incredible amounts of EP from just buildings so a big empire need only last a little while and its allllllllll over.
 
The Crusades: Of The Bad Death of Hammurabi and Discovery of the True Faith

We have a stack of 9 chariots with an AI that has a UU that defends against melee weapons! What better time will you ever see an early ruch of hammurabi.....

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Babylonians scream as the wheels of teh Byzantine chariots overrun anyone in their path, aiming directly for the Babylonian capital

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2 Lone bowmen are no match for such overwhelming force! The god's looked favorably on us (speaking of which we are still looking for one) as the babylonian capital is on a grassland tile!

With such a great success we send three remaining chariots off to Hammurabi's lone city on the hill, garrisoned by a lone Bowman

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The Babylonian civilization has been destroyed. The Byzantine people lacking a god to worship drag Hammurabi out to the cities center by his beard and unmericlessly carve out his beating heart as a sacrifice, looking for any god to lead the people.

As Justinian sees this he decides 2 things, the Byzantines NEED guidance, and HE needs to find it fast before he ends up "sacrificed".

Our empire is well spread out now

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However, we continue to settle new cities.

Techpath went: Pottery/fiching/writing/meditation/Priesthood/sailing/masonry/start IW.

Our capital very quickly finishes

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Getting us going with some GP points!

As we strighten out our economy and build up, we notice

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Yes, the heathen Portugese are encroaching on our lands!

We settle another city to our west

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Claiming gold and perhaps a few cottages. Hopefully it will be self-sufficient soon enough.

As Babylonia accidently goes over the happy cap, we adjust civics

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My feeling on the Spiritual trai iun BTS is that it got a big bump here. I use slavery ONLY when needed for 5 turns and immediately revolt out. This saves gold and prevents those slave revolts that cost gold and city populations! We whipped out a library in Babylonia, but did not run scientists yet. You will see why in a bit, meanwhile

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Another city which we use to block further Portugese expansion north.

We had enough time, and production in the capital to make a run at the Oracle

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So an early rush of Hammurabi and 2 early wonders! Not a bad haul!

For free we took

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All hail and worship the Confuscian gods!

Now many suggested we tech polytheism first for the early religion. My thinking is that we want ALOT of religions founded overseas as we want a slew of early religious wars over there! Especially since we cannot found any more, and I am thinking Joaoa does not get any!

Speaking of which, the materialistic Portugese leader has also accepted the true faith of the Byzantines!

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we open borders with Joao and I suspect we have a longtime partner here!

We settle another city to capture the copper in the NE

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THe main reason is the power numbers are shifting in Joaoa's favor, he has a decent stack of chariots/swords on a border city so I think we need some defense, real fast!

A view of Constantinople

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Adding a priest to speed along a great Prophet which we get soon enough!

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Followed by

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Which helped our economy immensely! Allows us to hike the slider up to 40%!

I saved here, looking to get Iron and some axes/spears real fast! We are building courthouses, and getting ready to expand further!
 
The Crusades: Byzantine Expansion and Education

Not much respoence so far. well I cannot blame eberyone, not much Crusading so far! Nevertheless, the Byzantine people are content for now with their faith and the noble Portugese friends who also observe the true faith.

We teched towards a beeline, getting several GSs to help us along

IronWorking/Monarchy/Aesthetics/Polytheism/Literature/Currency/Math/Metal CAsting/Civil Service/Education. And there are ALOT of fillin techs we need, and we cannot trade with those heathens!

Well, first things first, after IW

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In one lone spot! Well, Justinian plans to exploit that Imperialistic trait!

After Monarchy we revolt to HR

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And between the Faith and favorite civic I expect Joao to be friends for a long-time. AT least until he gets to FR.

We then started to settle all over, stretching the economy quite a bit but never quite bankrupting it.

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Number 1 priority, IRON. I don't trsut Joao all THAT much

Next we use some of our military

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City #2 this segment.

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Decent site, three food, some production and essentially blocks off Joao Just a little more.

Next city here

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Food and gold, at pop three it should be paying for itself.

Joao was not much for trading, but we managed a few.

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Which opened up Currency before Math.

We got this wonder in Constantinople

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Which will be very useful later in the game!

Next city

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Again 2 food and silver here. Self-sufficient even with all that tundra.

We also captured another Barb city

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And got this valuable wonder in the capital!

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We built the national Epic here also and popped several GSs between this and the food heavey former Babylonian capital!

The last city we settled

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We made this trade with Jaoa

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Mostly to get us the gold and hike the slider up.

With the great diplomacy I am holding off on military alot. I figure with all those cities we can get an good Crusading army pretty fast later on!

We revolted to OR as I want alot of infrastructure up and going before we turn towards the heathens.

Finally we tech

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Whic was an immediate cascade. I saved GS for Philosphy (I had to wait uintil Toaism was discovered overseas), and another for Paper.

The next GS

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We used to get most of eduation, after finishing it we saved with an eye for the Liberalism race.

A view of our continent

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Yes some areas we can settle still, but I think I will wait until the Forbidden Palace is built in the NE tundra area.

The tech situation with Jaoa

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All can be teched pretty fast although I am a little concerned as Joao has access to War elephants right now while the best unit we have is Swords.

Demographics are actually pretty good

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#2 in GNP and #1 in production. Pretty good if you ask me.

Finally, our cities

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Finishihg some courthouses and other buildings.

OK, where to go from here???

1) Do we tech Liberalism now, or try for machinery/compass/optics first to free up Astronomy? My preference right now is to get Nationalism and perhaps drop a city in the far east to nab the marble.

2) How much can we trust Jaoa, and do we need something like Fuedalism or machinery for protection.

3) After Liberalism, where to??? Guilds for the Grocer and UU? Gunpowder? Astronomy?? Remeber we cannot backfill with teh Ais.
 
I'm playing a shadow game, and it's a blast! Of course, I have broken a few of teh roolz, but it wouldn't be an RPC without some rule-breakin' you betcha. :lol:

Sometime in the late 16th century:
Spoiler :

Sorry for the lack of screenies - I might post a few when I finish this one. I settled in place, AG>AH>mining>BW>writing>med>PH. Built warrior to size 2, then worker, 'henge, worker, chop rest of 'henge, settler. I popped hunting from a hut.

Met Hammy and scouted his land with starting warrior, popped a scout and sent him south to find Joao, sent 2nd warrior west>NW. When horses popped up in the BFC, Hammy was as good as dead. Settled the gold/grasslands towards him, built a barracks there and in the capital. I got the combat 1 event for chariots just before I built my second one (build 7 chariots to get the free promo). I built 9, kept his capital and another one NE of my second city, but razed a third that was on a miserable tundra hill stuck out into the arctic ocean with no bonuses. I then rushed out 2 settlers to claim the jungle rice/banana spots to the south, just beating Joao to them (I had to settle the SW city one off the coast to beat him to it).

With Joao well and truly boxed in, I built the Oracle and took CoL, founding Confucianism in Thessalonika (my 2nd city with the 2 gold mines). Barb galleys were a PITA around Babylon early on. I eventually built 3 galleys to keep them in check. I built the mids in Constantinople (capital), with only a bit of whip overflow going to them, and switched to Rep. No anarchy sure is nice! :lol:

In general, the tech pace of everyone else was abysmal. GGs were popping up IADL, and Joao's research was severely stunted. I went on a wonder-building spree, and the only ones I lost were to Joao (Parth, MoM, Zeus). After researching aesthetics>poly>lit (built GLib in Constantinople, SP in Thessalonika), I got metal casting (Thess built Colossus). Next research path was math>currency>IW>construction>calendar. I traded Joao for some of the religious mono. I settled my first GPriest, built the shrine with the 2nd, and bulbed theo with the third (BROKEN RULE #1 - founded christianity). I built the AP and Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. Along the way Joao converted to confucianism, and we became best buds.

Along the way I aggressively settled much of the main continent, grabbing the far NE marble for the wonders. I never got the slider above 40% for a long time, but with rep/caste and tons of scientists I had a really good tech rate. Joao was left completely in the dust, and the fact that nobody overseas was taking any wonders (and all the GGs being born) told me that I was probably way ahead in tech.

Next was CS>mach>eng>paper. I popped a couple of GEs, saved one and settled the rest. I built ND with the saved GE, researched paper and built Sankore in Thessalonika. Bulbed half of edu, but settled most GSs.

BROKEN RULE #2: Researched phil and founded tao (built AW and the shrine, too, with another GP :p:p:p ).

I easily won the lib race, took nationalism (because I knew I would be drafting soon :lol:), built the Taj, and started a consecutive golden age with a GS. Then I went printing press>feud>guilds>banking>econ (got the free GM). I traded Joao for compass and finally researched optics. On the turn it came in all the other AIs showed up at once! :eek: As predicted, they were very backwards (except Louis and Toku had Astro). Toku was the 500 lb gorilla and had vassaled Louis and Brennus. Monty was his usual neanderthal self. With these 4 stooges on the other continent, it's no wonder I'm miles ahead. :lol:

Next tech path was RP >rifling >music >mil trad (here comes the cavaly!) >astro >chem >steel >sci meth > communism. I changed to state property and Free speech (BIG help to :science: and :gold:). I was building cavs in about 60% of my cities, cannons in a few others, and dropped into nationalism a few times to draft rifles. Toku DOWed Joao, and I bided my time until he asked me to help him. Once he did, I took 2 of Toku's cities (Kyoto and one other) and got peace. Joao vassaled to me voluntarily (hey, he's a loyal confucian - tyrants like me VALUE loyalty :lol:). My power rating is at least double everyone else's. I'm fighting samurai, knights, and longbows this cav, rifles, and cannon! I've gifted Joao a bunch of techs to buff him up a bit. (Oh yeah, I forgot - Monty was the first to DOW me, but that was a joke).

Currently I've been shuttling more military to my 2 japanese cities (I've got 30-40 cavs over there, with supporting rifles and cannon), and I'm about to go medieval on Toku's a$$. Research as been corp> steam, heading to RR, combustion, AL (I've already got a fort built on the oil, and about 3000 :gold: in the bank). Constantinople is building the SoL, Thessalonika (holy city) is doing wall street. This is really just a mop up operation at this point in the late 1590s or so.
 
I am far from an expert, but say you should go for guilds from liberalism. not really for the UU, (though that would be nice) but because of the grocers, and since it leads to banking. You only have 4 cities putting out significant amounts of cash (holy city and capital included) so it would not tie up much production to get those buildings online in the key areas. Banking also provides mercantilism which would really beef up your economy since you basically have no foreign trade. Nationalism can wait, especially since drafting swordsmen seems a little wastefull, and Joao is nowhere near liberalism so he should stay friendly enough for a while. And astronomy can wait since you are far from ready for an intercontinental invasion anyway, unless you think swordsmen can do it.

get guilds with liberalism, get HBR, get banking, and make some cataphracts. that should leave you in a fairly good position.

Based on the religious advisor, taoism is still pretty new, so if your feeling gutsy printing press, constitution and gunpowder are not off the table, though that seems risky.
 
What's risky about taking PP with lib? But screw that. Either take nationalism for its high beaker value and the possible wonder (not to mention it's a pre-req for some decent stuff), or gamble a bit on astro, biology, or economics. Economics would be comical since you could use the merchant to pound out a buncha CR rifles, although honestly with the UU I don't know why you'd hold off too long.

@ Mad:

Joao is coded in the XMLs to not declare @ pleased. Unless he was WHEOOHRN before going to pleased, he won't DoW you.

You're SoL if he has a holy city though...hahahaha.
 
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