Role Play Challenge: The Perfect Germans!

[TheMeInTeam]

This isn't as appealing to me as I don't see an opportunity for blood to be running down Fred's blade, but the dead end tech is always a rough one.

If I shadowed, I'd not call mono dead end, and I will debate that to hell endlessly. OR is too strong to just ignore, and it is certainly a pre-req for another tech (even the oft-maligned divine right is!). To be specific, mono is technically on the shortest path to liberalism...so be careful with what's dead end .

A FP/gold/Cow start is pretty strong. I say 1N also.

 

[mc-red]

Looking forward to this.

 

[madscientist]

The Perfect Germans: Part I

Well, not the easiest game to start with even with such a grand capital. Basically looks like we may need some early warfare here, but onto the game first!

I send our fearless scout ahead to scope out the lands

And I immediately say "Now that is a great site for a second city!

So we opt to settle in place.

And very soon we meet

Who appears to have come from the north.

Our Scout was pretty busy, popping this tech

As well as 81 gold, a map, a warrior, and some experience.

We explored well into teh south meeting

A fairly sociable group here. Perhaps we can run a pretty decent peaceful game, then again we may not!

Techpath went: wheel/agriculture/pottery/BW/AH/IW/writing/ start Mysticism.

And while we are exploring the southern most coast where hammurabi hangs out, we got this random event.

Shield promoted warriors. OK, good enough for defense for now, we can delay archery a long time. Or can we.

After BW we find

May be hard to see but Hyuana's capital is directly north of that copper!

And how about horses

OK, better although not the easiest spot.

We do get this early message

we opted for the +3 diplo rating so as not to see Incan axes coming at our early warrior defenders!

And once we tech iron

Specialization or not, that region to the west is prime for a city to claim both the iron and horses!

Now unfortunately Hyuana settled that nice area NE of Berlin. Fred mis rather disrturbed at this and I think we need to put that strong tech start with a commerce capital to early work!

We settled our second city

And merely need mysticism and a monument which I will whip once the population reaches 2.

Also I think SE along the river looks like a good science city or GP farm. Greatly depends on what we do with HC!

Finally, a look at Berlin and how it's coming along

Not bad at all, once the population grows 1 more I thin we start another settler to claim the marble/cows. The maps are a little week but to the south is quite a bit of Jungle which included some Jumbos and past that are Hammurabi and Hatshepsut.

Oh, it happens to all of us. I accidently got our first worker eaten by a bear trying to get an early road built, costing us that coastal area which Hyuan claimed!

But I think Germany requires a little more breathing room to the north!

 

[DMOC]

I would probably make that second city the naval city if that water extends to the ocean and isn't a large lake.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

The Incan city of Tiwendana seems to be settled excellently. You know have 3 or your 8 with the Incan capital that's 4/8.

Settle on the Coastal Tundra to the NW for your 5th city, horses, cow's and marble.

2 settled to the north of the jungle belt, will block of Hatty and the Babylonian, Now you only need 1 more city spot.

1/2 a continent, 8 cities, I think you'll need the great wall.

 

[Joshua368]

Took an awfully long time to get that first settler out, don't you think? Cottages couldn't have slowed you down that much...

 

[huerfanista]

But I think Germany requires a little more breathing room to the north!

Yes, I think lebensraum is the appropriate German foreign policy at this point.

 

[madscientist]

The Perfect Germans!: Part II

A short update here, and posts maybe intermittant this weekend as in the US it is Thanksgiving today which generally runs into a 4-day weekend of family togetherness! Add onto it my 15 year old daughter's birthday which she has us runing arround a bit, perhaps you'll get 1 or 2 more updates this wekeend.

And unfortunately I believe I have brought the German army to a point some of you all may not be happy to see a pause, but that's the way it goes!

So onto the Germans!

First, some shop talk. We constructed our third city, maybe starting a little bit of city specialization (I have it in my mind), but essentially used all our resources to getting a good sized army built, what you would call a "Perfect German Army". Of course I feel odd NOT having archers arround and I do miss the option of HAs!.

Techpath went a little oddly: after Mysticism, Fishing/sailing/math/construction (seams a good German tech!)/Currency and start CoL which still gives us the option to found Confuscianism and perhaps a shrine.

The game, we started with another settler for our third city and off course a good slew of warrior defenders.

I will discuss these cities futures at the end. For now suffice to say we have a riverside city cutting the continent off from HC, but not fast enough.

Looks like one of these lovefest, religious brothers (and sisters) games and Fred has alot of Bortherly love for those inferior nations that do not get in his was but not for those competitors!. So we revolt to Buddhism which everyone has.

And being too late shows what happened.

HC trying to slip a city to claim jumbos behind us! well Jumbos are NOT much use right now as we cannot research HA as I consider it DEADEND. Nevertheless, this city appears useless and without open borders, a drain on his economy.

At this point we saved here, with our modest German war machine on Incan borders

Note I have 2 settlers in the groups to replace Tiawaza and Cusco with proper German cities, while the remainder can be razed and repositioned.

Our cities so far...

The southern area showing HC's rouge city.

And let's see our cities

Berlin

Obviously a great Bureacracy capital. No specialists yet nor any wonders yet to pollute our GP pool.

Hamberg

A tough city to figure out as far as long-term however a really powerful city early on. Potential Naval Port but I think wasted. To tell the truth, It has really good food/production to be a real good early Military city, so maybe the HE goes here. With the Buddhist lovefest I think we can get to guilds/chemistry/communism (I am still undecided if this is deadend as it unlocks a powerful civic) for a strong workshop city.

Besides, I see an excellent naval Port. SW Penninsula to Hamberg has 1 fish, iron, 2 jungled mines, and ALOT of sea tiles. Perfect Maori statue location with enough production to get those statues built before 1500 AD as sometimes it takes that long.

Munich

Either the science or Gold city. Simply cottage it up, be patient (limited food) for alot of beakers (food and mines are also on the river). On the other hand, a little luck may pop the Confiscian Holy City here opening up an excellent gold city, and that extra production allows us to built wealth as we see fit!

That leaves quite a bit of city optimization! Providing the future Incan war goes well (if not, well Fred probably get's a restart) I think Cuzco likely is a GP farm while Tiawaza is probably The gold or science city, although it could be an espionage city providing we have some forrests still arround.

Alternatively we can settle a good city to the south claiming Jumbos with teh lake and getting a LATE game GP farm.

Well, let me know what you think.

Oh, by the way. I am assuming we should exterminate the Incans in one massive war as I do not want more thatn the -1 diplo penalty from Hatty and Hammy.

 

[UWHabs]

Hope that your holy city gets in Munich.

Hamburg could be a good production city, although it will be really weird to see a production city without a single hill.

 

[assass1n]

Scouts dont count in the perfect army

 

[Ormur]

Confucianism would be appropriate for the orderly Germans.

 

[CivCorpse]

Not sure why you placed Hamburg where you did. It has a lot of desert tiles. 1W of the corn would have been better. It is on a river and could claim the iron. The horses are a nonfactor since HBR is a dead tech.

For the naval city I reccomend the hill on the western pennisula. It will have 14 watertiles for the MaeiouAndSometimeY statues. It has good production and a seafood.

 

[ZauberTigga]

Haha, great!
Being german myself I know for a fact that Fred would love to have his specialist cities properly named after the original cities, as in the real world. You know, those germans sure are a little "organised".

Capital: Berlin
Military: München, at least it's in their attitude
Production: call it "Ruhrpott" It's the region of Essen, Dortmund etc.
GP farm: not sure which german city has the hightest GPP, but Heidelberg I think. Some Nobel prize winners came from there.
Naval city: Hamburg
Science: Köln but really I don't know. I don't think germany produces that many beakers these days.
Cultural/Espionage: Weimar
Money: Frankfurt

Just a suggestion for the flavour of the rpc. I've been following your games for a long time and I must say you inspired me to a lot of great games and strategies!

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi Mad!

I would have been more agressive with the incans but you are about to correct that!
IMO, incorporing granaries in your play (instead of barrack, after the monument) would help a lot... but your game are always entertaining anyways
Looking forward the sucess of the perfect germans...

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

edit: late, but happy Thanksgiving to US people!

 

[madscientist]

The Perfect Germans: Part III

Well, not the most perfect war, but we did accomplish what we set out to do if somewhat long and sloppy. By the end we 6 purely German cities, a general idea of how we plan to specialize, and one dead Incan!

To start we sent our attack force against HC's Tiawanza coastal city which is well defended.

We moved quickly ahead

Which we razed and resettled

Yes, Cologne is our new Gold city. Why do you ask that??? Well read on...

First the techpath: CoL/Ploytheism/Preisthood/Civil Service/start paper

So back to the war, we healed our tropps and sent them off to Cuzco

As expected Cuzco has some seafood, ends up it has 2. With that and the cows a decent GP farm for a Philosophical leader.

Now back to the gold city of Cologne, ends up we are first to CoL

And it is founded in Cologne!!!

Unfortunately I can play pretty stupidly sometimes. We defended the city with an axe and spear. HC send 2 HAs against it, and I attacked one with the Spear. Unfortunately the random odds god's are not favoring the Confuscists this game (perhaps they are still watching from the Justinian game) because the spear lost out to the HA! Next turn the healthy HA greatly damaged the axe and the wounded HA captured Cologne and

Danged! Well, it would have been a bit of a pain getting the GP for the shrine anyway! We built another settler and settled the spot again creating Essen which will still be our gold city although that may change later.

2 cities are definitely set in stone, Berlin as the capital and Hamburg as the military city since this is where I settled our first and only GG.

We also settled Franfurt where Cuzco used to be.

So with the incan spirit broken, their only metal source (copper) taken, it was simply healing and finishing them off.

In the meantime we started opening trade with our Buddhist brothers and sisters.

Archery, finally!

At which point we readjusted civics.

OR for supreme German manufacturing ability! Also the favored civic of Hatty.


Another trade

We soon after teched Civil Service and revolted to Bureacracy the favored civic of Hammy. So here we are, happy Germans friends with Hatty and Hammy! OK, perhaps I should have waited until CS to revolt, but 1 turn so what.

Oh, the Incans. Right


We attacked their last city

We did not have an extra settler since HC used a spy to stop all settler progress in Berlin 1 turn before we finished it! So we razed the last remnants of Hyuana and sent the next settler.

Hatty has a spear there and Hammy was getting close, and I definitely wanted that spot for the Port city!

So that leaves us with 6 cities, however we did lose a real chance at the jumbos. Tell the truth I am just as happy as I fear a big culture battle with the egyptians there.

So a view of our 6 cities at the save!

Obviously one on the coast. I am thinking of the last one inland on the river which has 1 farm alread and a hill. It has the most forrests and would be a great National Park city although very slow to ripen.

Our cities

Tech, not so bad.

Considering the Incan war, definitely not that bad.

OK, so I think we head towards the Liberalism race as we are almost done with paper. Get a fast GS from Frankfurt once we get some fish there and bulb education while we tech off Philosophy. Fred's fast universities with OR should allow us to catchup pretty well in tech.

SO I think now is the time to start finalizing our cities

Berlin: Capital in Bureacracy at least until we get Liberalism
Hamburg: Military city. we need workshops her eonce we finally get MC.
Munich: Cottaging and the science city.
Essen: Gold city, where we shall have a market soo for some merchant specilaists.
Frankfurt: GP farm
Dortmund: The Naval Port, we will start on the Maorir soon enough.

we still need a future production city AND and espionage capital. The espionage capital should be on the river like I suggested earlier. The production city may be OK on the coast as we can make some chain irrigated farms and teh resources and hills may be enough to get IronWorks there. Alternatively we can take some land from Hatty but that seams a bit foolish to tick off a pair of good allies here!

 

[UWHabs]

I'd say production 1E of the cows, where the Incan city was. You get cows, marble, horses, and a few hills which you can work once you get some irrigation there (although it probably won't be a great production city until Biology, which isn't that late if you go for space). But barring finding an island off-shore with a couple seafood resources and like 4 hills of Iron, it'll do.

 

[madscientist]

The Perfect Germans: Part IV

A rather long and non-eventful segment here. We do have our 8 specialized cities though, and moving along. Whether the German people can get to space first, well I do not know. But we certainly will try!

There are ALOT of screenshots, so I will go over the segment here, then enter another post to discuss the cities.

Techpath this segment!: Paper/MC/education/Philosophy/Compass/Optics/start gunpowder. We bulbed nothing.

First thing is we settle our future production city

NOWAY near how I envisioned it when I started the game, but it will have to do.

We also got the quest for the Sports league, and knowing how much the German people love their Soccer I am in the process of trying to fullfill it.

And a bit of a blow to the German ego

Being gifted a tech! We certainly have some work to do in the research department.

A good thing happened

The AP vote! I voted for Hammurabi the entire segment as I do not trust him as mush as Hatty. Still this is a good thing for several reason, the extra +2 hammers from the Buddhist buildings, and it probably keeps Hammurabi in a religious civic rather than FR. Diplomacy is a big factor here.

We dropped our last city in the middle of the board along the river.

We certainly have alot of work to get it up to a liveable level. However, once Biology comes on board I hope it shows it's worth.

As we are falling more and more behind Hatty and Hammy, I decided to take some risks and make some trades.

Which allowed us to toss in Drama to Hatty for

I did not want to show any city screenshots here, but felt this was helpful

Military city has ALOT of production! 12 turns for the HE here!

Fred's Philosphical trait really helps here, as we got 2 GMs this segment to help fund our civilizatiob

we used him to plot out some of our friends land while looking for the ideal trade mission city.

The best city get's us 3300 gold compared to the offered 2700 gold from Hatty's capital

Now the long Incan war really slowed us down (plus we really should NOT attack Hatty which I normally would do) however it did get us several well promoted units, CR III and shield protected swordsmen which we used alot of teh mission gold to upgrade (as per the RPC rules). Also the Military city is spitting out CG II crossbows replacing those few token archers we got very late.

Now, I hate trading education before we get liberalism but I think I needed to as Hatty was offering less and less in return, a hint that she is teching it.

So........

OK, 4 techs for education. Not the best haul I ever got, but good enough.

We then meet the German bretheren from the Scandenavian north!

Ragnar, our invaluable friend from the first German RPC with Bismark. However, I fear he will not be as useful to Fred. Still we have his favorite civic which offsets the different religion. However, I did look for a way to get Guilds for knights and added a few combat II Pikes to each coastal city.

And sometimes the NE can be a royal PAIN

So much for our GP farms spitting out GSs left and right. We used the GA to start a Golden Age and speed up the liberalism race.

Which we won!!!

Not the best situation though as Hatty and Hammy have both of the best techs, so not trading! we opted for the best tech to help our economy, Printing Press. I know it can be bulbed but we have yet to get any academines so I want to use those next two for a pair of them.

We adjusted civics

However, I think it was a mistake opting OUT of Bureacracy and I think I will revolt back into it next segment. We got less commerce and Hammurabi dropped to pleased. Organized helps reduce the costs of it and the only benefit of FS is fighting the cultural war with Hatty to the south.

Speaking of which, Liberalism did net us some nice techs.

Guilds, Ragnar, Knights. Enough said.

And a trade with hammy

Who has not adopted FR yet!

I saved here

A view of the world

Demographics

Depending on the other continent I think some military production is in order here.

And the tech situation.

OK, where do we go from here???

Gunpowder we finish, but after that????

Hammy has adopted US meaning he has democracy I think. That's being behind nationalism/constitution/democracy at least. That's alot for us to tech off just to get parity.

I say after gunpowder we tech astronomy and chemistry for some naval defense as I am not concerned about a land invasion. Also I have our first caravel which is ready to find out sho else is out there, perhaps we can find a nice trading buddy to backfill a little bit!

 

[madscientist]

The Perfect Germans: PArt IV, the cities

Berlin (capital)

Turned out to be a very nice Bureacracy capital. We are committed to Oxford in the science city, so I am not sure what national wonder goes here. Perhaps the hermitage, but not so sure. I also may go for the Globe theater here instead of the national Park city, as happiness is generally NOT an issue in that city. My only regret here is revolting out of Bureacracy, I think I will readopt it in the next segment.

Hamburg (Military City)

Pretty damned nice military city if I say so myself! Chemistry will get is another hammer on each workshop. The rice got an extra food tile once we chain farmed for some other cities! Right now alot of military are popping out in 1-2 turns, with 2 free promotions so far! Finally, not sure if west point goes here or the Naval Port, or if we will ever get a highly promoted unit to get one (privateers!).

Munich (Science City)

The science city. Not too bad however one of the weaker specialized cities here. The capital is doing much better and the FS civic is only getting us a little extra commerce. Also being off the coast is hindering trade route yield and no harbor! Ah well, not every city could be perfect and we shall see if we can boost this up come Biology/Oxford/Representation.

Frankfurt (GP farm)

Very slow to materialize, although we got the NE up pretty fast. The biggest problem was Barb galleys torching our fishing boats. The inital protecting Galley got sunk and I finally needed to build a triem for adequate protection. Still, it has popped 1 GS so far (an academy in Berlin) and starting to pull it's weight.

Essen (Gold city)

This has been more like a GP farm than the GP farm! running 4 merchants continually with enough production to pop out a market and grocer pretty fast. The bank is underway and while a shrined confuscian holy city would have been great, it is doing it's job pretty well.

Dormund (Naval Port)

Between the fish and mines we got the Maori statues up fairly quickly considering how late the city got built. Looking to start popping out a GOOD and STRONG naval force to combat a probably inevitable Viking attack. I would like to get the WestPoint wonder here so when combined with a drydocks we get 8 XP naval units!

Sturgart (Production city)

Late to be built, but that is OK as it's main usage comes very late. So far it's pretty good with only some worthless tundra. Chain irrigated farms will be a big boost come Biology, and I see no problems with this city being a production powerhouse for space part production!

Dusseldorf (espionage/national park city)

As expected, pretty weak so far. We do have 7 forrests though and I think we probably need to lumbermill them to get infrastructure, then build forrest preserves once we get the national park built. Also it will take a good while to build those espionage building here, but not every city is perfect to start!.

OK< let's see how these cities end up!

Note, I am building libraries/universities/banks/forges in all cities to get Oxford/Wall Street/IronWorks. But it takes time.

 

[AndrewN]

Its time to hope who ever is the top AI for GNP is in a Golden Age otherwise you are in deep trouble.

Hattie and Hammy are teching quickly in this game for at monarch level. Although part of the problem might be the map you have, apart from the excellent city site it is pretty barren, even so to have Democracy in the 1300's is quick, are you sure he didn't build the mids?

The early war you had seems to have slowed you down a lot and having a city burnt didn't help , but I agree if you hadn't declared he would have. Looks like it will be tricky to win by space from here with your current cities.

 

[JammerUno]

GNP counts culture as well, so it might just be that. Let's hope so. Is there a way to get some forests growing on the tundra? Without any they're really junk.