Rosier Oathtaker

[Blakmane]

Anyone else notice the new Rosier Oathtaker model which scenario do you think he'll appear in...

Would be cool to attach a normal event to him as well, say, if he was defeated by an Order unit it might have a chance to trigger a 'repenting' event with one conclusion being he becomes Rosier Oathtaker again.

 

[Annex]

Funny you posted this. I was just looking through all the units in wb and noticed the two Rosier buttons. When I read about his lone a while ago I pretty much expected that his story would eventually be told one way or another.

As for which scenario, I havent got a clue.

 

[xienwolf]

His story is already sprinkled in the Pedia, along with Saverous's Tale. I can't remember which precise entries, but you could check the Lore Compendium, or search through the trivia thread.

 

[beauregard]

Anyone else notice the new Rosier Oathtaker model which scenario do you think he'll appear in...

Would be cool to attach a normal event to him as well, say, if he was defeated by an Order unit it might have a chance to trigger a 'repenting' event with one conclusion being he becomes Rosier Oathtaker again.

Only the Order doesn't seem to be so hot about 'repenting' altogether...

Rosier defeated by the Order would brobably become Rosier-Who-Got-What-He-Rightfully-Deserved more likely.

 

[KillerClowns]

Despite what you'd expect, one of the quotes suggests the Order is a lot more into the whole redemption and repentance thing than you'd think. From the Acolyte's 'pedia:
"What is the greatest temptation of the faithful of Junil?" "Mercy." "Why?" "The children of mercy are redemption and injustice. To show mercy to the murderer is to show contempt for the slain, and to grant mercy to the thief is to impoverish his victims. The redemption of a foe is the greatest achievement, but by forgiveness without contrition one is only allowing future suffering."
It's this philosophy, I expect, that allows only the Order to achieve the last of the Command promotions.

 

[xienwolf]

Sounds more like they are saying "If someone comes up and claims to recant his evil ways, make sure to toss him in the torture pit for a few weeks anyway. Then we know he is REALLY cleansed."

 

[KillerClowns]

Sounds more like they are saying "If someone comes up and claims to recant his evil ways, make sure to toss him in the torture pit for a few weeks anyway. Then we know he is REALLY cleansed."

I dunno, seems more like "if someone comes up and claims to recant his evil ways, toss him in a dungeon or have him serve the community as repentance for his crimes. Then we know he is REALLY cleansed."
Although the dungeon might be miserable, or community service might mean the front lines of the Infernal War, I'm not getting a "meh, just torture him some" vibe.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Actually, it's more along the lines of "kill them all and let god sort them out later".
ie, you don't know if someone has repented or is biding their time. If they have repented, Junil will take them, and if not, best to prevent any future crimes.
Of course, that isn't to imply that the Order proscribes capital punishment for every offense, but I doubt they care much about rehabilitating murderers.
And it isn't a hard and fast rule, just a philosophy.

 

[deadliver]

Yeah I'm with Nikis, that sounds a whole lot like some of those inquisition douches in Spain.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

You can tell who here read Mardero's civilopedia entry and who didn't.

 

[Blakmane]

I've already tracked down most of his stories in the pedia, but the inclusion of an actual model suggests that we'll actually witness/cause the fall ourselves. It would be cool for the unit to be used as part of the game itself however- including things just for one scenario seems like a waste of hard work.

And I think the bannor and the order are pretty hard done by in this forum. There's a reason the bannor and the order are still both good and that's because, while they may be flawed, they are honestly seeking to fight against the wrongs of the world and make it a better place. They are no more flawed than the empyrean/rok or other good civs, which are hardly shining examples of light themselves.

Besides, if the pedia stories are taken into account, the bannor/order were pretty much the reason the infernals didn't just crush the world as soon as they appeared. No other race puts quite as much effort into fighting armageddon as they.

 

[KillerClowns]

You can tell who here read Mardero's civilopedia entry and who didn't.

There is actually nothing to suggest whether Goroff Grist is usual, unusual, totally insane, or a glowing beacon of mercy compared to the rest of the Order. (EDIT: Although I admit, the first on the list seems likely.) Whether his decision to sentence Lita to death is the usual tune for the Order, or not, is not stated. Clearly, not all agents of the Order are made the same; the Diviner from Rosier's 'pedia discards the Order's traditions happily. And I feel pretty confident in saying that if the Bannor and Elohim both followed the Order, I'd rather live in Cahir Abbey Torrolerial, and the two might have very different interpretations of the same passages.
I'm feeling like the devil's (angel's?) advocate, though...
EDIT 2: If the shoe fits... [changes title]

 

[deadliver]

I could see that, like the difference between Quaker christians and Puritan christians.

I consider Order to be lawful, they do what is lawful not what is considered good or bad by outsiders. To them burning someone as a witch is a good action because it is lawful. But on the other hand that could just be a Bannor thing cos I can't imagine Ethne or Einion torturing people to death as redemption.

IMHO I bet Rosier's fall will have something to do with a woman.

 

[Hawkwood]

Spotted this some time ago, but didn't seem important as we had already been told that there would be scenarios dealing with Rosier's fall. There's also a unit named "Spiderkin" by the way, with the same graphics as the one from FF.

 

[Scott Alexander]

I've met the Spiderkin already. Every so often when you cast Wonder, you summon a Spiderkin and get the text "A unit has arrived from another dimension, proclaiming the glory of the Archos Empire".

 

[Arwon]

Yeah I'm with Nikis, that sounds a whole lot like some of those inquisition douches in Spain.

...or Portugal or France or Italy or Germany...

 

[deadliver]

I wonder if they will code it so only one Rosier can exist at a time.

 

[beauregard]

@ KillerClowns:

FFH 2 Manual:

Law is basically a code that applies universally. The Order is certainly judgmental, but that isn't to say they judge based on taste or individual preference. Everyone is subject to the same laws and appropriate consequences, be they king or pauper. Further, they believe this applies to all people, not just the followers of their religion. Consequences fit the Crime, guilty are punished, and the innocent are protected. But while they make a more or less Just society, mercy and redemption are weak points of The Order.

 

[Lord Tirian]

...or Portugal or France or Italy or Germany...

Me thinks you miss the (well-hidden) joke.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", LT.

 

[deadliver]

Yeah, especially because he forgot to include Australia on that list. Everyone knows those guys were all up into that unpleasantness during the early 1100s.

Sheesh talk about bias.