RR17 - Team A

[Thrar]

Takeout Portuguese, prepared by Rolo? I hear it's tasty!

Economy:
- micro Boston for Levee in 1 (using two citizens).
- fire off GA with the GS next turn, convert to US/FS/FM. Will observe FM for 5 turns, if it's not worth it we can switch back before the GA is over.
- once in US, buy the levee in Mauryan, run 100% cash to buy banks/markets/observatories/courthouses everywhere. Insert some military as needed.
- sit back and enjoy the cashflow.
- next tech after RR is AL.

Foreign Affairs:
- declare war on Portugal immediately, move in on Coimbra. Capture and raze next turn. Keep Lisboa, raze Guimaraes. Oporto is in a terrible location but I'd still keep it for the iron. If nothing else, it can get some farms/cottages and produce a bit of money for us. I don't see resettling as an option in a quick game like this.
- if Portugal offers to capitulate I'll take it, leaving them Oporto and possibly Guimaraes. We can demand their iron as tribute and it will speed up the following wars.
- if the set isn't over by then, our troops can continue clockwise through the HRE starting at Vienna. All their cities look good enough to be keepers imo.

Any suggestions? If there's no discussion I'll play in about 24 hours.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Why observatories if we're going to play a rushbuy cash military game?

Military plan sounds good. I would take capitulation as soon as we have lisbon, their lands aren't great, we can demand/trade for the resources, and he isn't a threat anyway. We've got bigger fish to fry than bacalhau!

 

[r_rolo1]

Bacalhau

On the military, it is impossible for the Portuguese to cap after only losing their cap, simply because it is impossible to gather enough war score for that from taking a city with only 2 garrison units. And anyway, the more efficient run would be to take Coimbra and then go against Lisbon ...

And to be honest, do we really want to vassal the Portuguese? It will only make the rest of the civs harder to cap due to low power average ...

 

[vanatteveldt]

I admit I never really understood cap mechanics. (I just got very frustrated trying to cap the AI in OCC when they were obviously getting trashed ); killing portugal with 1 move units will be tedious though, so maybe something like: take caimbro + lisbon -> extort tech -> wait until we have a large force of bored cavalry/tanks (maybe right after HRE war) -> finsih portugal?

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, things will surely not be as linear as that ( a weakened Portugal will draw either vultures or a master ), but to be honest I think that beating Portugal for cities and a tech would be nice for a 1st target and would allow us to move on to more tasty fruit ( the HRE, for example )....

 

[vanatteveldt]

Well portugal only borders us and HRE, and we do want to take on HRE as first major target. If Portugal caps to someone else that is fine, we'll deal with them as soon as their master is next in line. Lisbon and Caimbro need to go, but the rest is not really worth the momentum I think.

If we are feeling gutsy we could also just continue moving east taking Oporto and possibly Guimar\~aes, en route to Vienna->Aachen while the 'new' army that we are building during the Portugese war starts from Boston to Augsburg -> Prague. If we send an explorer to HRE we can see whether we can afford a pincer movement or need to concentrate our forces.

 

[Thrar]

T0 - Declare war and unceremoniously move 2 rifles, 6 grens and 6 cannons next to Coimbra. Hire two citizens in Boston for levee next turn. Upgrade 3 trebs to cannons. Hire an engineer instead of merchant in Washington and switch everyone to levees or banks.

T1 - Let the games begin!
Coimbra is razed at no losses, using two cannons, a gren and a rifle.

The rest of the stack moves on to Lisboa, ETA 2 turns. Upgraded treb-cannons are a turn behind along with the troops used in the attack.

GS fires off a GA.

Switch civics to US/FS/FM.

At 100% cash we're gaining 20 gpt for losing 30 science (including the double hit from no Rep and no free specialists). Once banks and markets are online, FM looks like it will pay off easily - until there's nobody left to trade.
Buy bank in Washington and levee in Mauryan.

T2 - Portugal is already willing to talk peace!

Not interested of course. Looks like he has 2 more cities we don't know about. Our stack moves next to Lisboa which is relatively well-defended - 3 rifles, 2 cavs at 60% culture. A turn of bombardment may be in order.

I buy a bank in Boston (50gpt right there at 100% cash) and micro Washington for grocer in 1.

T3 - Bombarding Lisboa starts, remaining cannons catch up with main stack. Will be ripe for plucking next turn. Washington (of Portugal) got a cannon in Lisboa, and something else:

Yes, that's a GE. Maybe he'll build something yummy for us!
Grocer in Washington, banks in Boston and NY finish. Washington is out of important stuff to build, I decide to go for stable->cavalry to pick off stragglers. Other cities are still on economy builds.

Oh, and that forest near NY finally grew.

Too bad it turned out to be a jungle.

T4 - The AP wants us to stop trading with Lincoln. Now if I only knew which civ that is...

Said no because we like trade but have enough trading partners in case it does go through, so no need to defy.

Lisboa is at 3 rifles, 2 cavs and 2 cannons. The GE is gone but no wonder was build. A shame.

Some very nice rolls mean we only lose a single cannon. And so it goes...

Has an academy and a settled GA - that's where all the cultural pressure came from. Otherwise not much left.
But - look at it this way:

Do I count 12 forests there? I'd be very inclined to make this our forest preserve city! Let's not let NY's production potential go to waste!

Finally, I offer you this:

I think we should absolutely take it. Guimaraes is his new capital and he still has 4 cities total. This means both that it would take longer to take him down and that he won't be such a weak vassal.

I pause the set here to wait for input. Thanks for the setup Rolo, those 4 turns were a blast! And there will be more...

 

[r_rolo1]

Can't you get a tech ? :/

Getting Wash on the ropes so soon is a good bonus. We have much more fish to fry, so I'm seriously inclined to accept it and move one

 

[LKendter]

Coimbra is razed at no losses, using two cannons, a gren and a rifle.

OUCH - how long will that delay us getting coal?

Has an academy and a settled GA - that's where all the cultural pressure came from. Otherwise not much left.

That was an unexpected bonus with the artist. Helps solve the issue with Coimbra.

I think we should absolutely take it. Guimaraes is his new capital and he still has 4 cities total.

Wrong person to ask about this. I still HATE vassals in general. More pain the it is worth IMO. Do we really want a meh Portugal?

 

[vanatteveldt]

We won't have culture issues if we take the cap: contested tiles automatically go to the master.

Isn't it coal 1N2E of Lisbon? IF so, we'll get it as soon as Lisbon pops, which should be soon enough with Johnny Fontane working for us. Rolo said earlier that a fairly weak Portugal will make it more difficult to get later caps, so it might be nicer to conquer the next city, extort techs for a peace deal, and let portugal be free for a bit longer. Since it seems that the army is more or less intact, we probably can move it east immediately anyway, which brings us quite close to the next portugese city?

 

[Thrar]

Extorting techs is all nice and good, except that Portugal doesn't have any techs! With 4 cities his eco is still pretty good though (Coimbra sucked anyway, so he basically just lost Lisboa), we can let him tech some for us in the future.

If we make peace but don't cap him, we won't get his resources. The AI doesn't give away its only iron and the area around Lisboa will stay under his control for a long long time. As I understand it the main reason against the cap was that he would be too weak and bring down our average - but with 4 cities left, that shouldn't be such an issue.

 

[Sengir]

Gven the fact that a) the Portugese haven't got any techs we want yet and b) we just took their cap, I don't think they will contribute a lot.

Are we in a position to declare on the HRE straight away? Otherwise, I'd consider stomping on the Portugese for a bit longer, until we've got a stack ready for the HRE. Might as well make use of those units we have running around, we might even be able to extort a city out of them.

 

[vanatteveldt]

+1 Sengir!

 

[Thrar]

T4 - continued...

I take this deal:

Threw in Free Speech because it's his favorite civic and the relationship bonus will be nice.
His lands:

Not a killer but except Lagos in the north it's decent. We could consider giving Vienna to him, it's HRE's least useful city and pretty close to Portugal.

We do some trading:

I then pass on our remaining leftover resources to Portugal. Maybe we can get a relationship bonus out of it; just cancel those deals as needed.

Tech-wise, they're about 2/3 of the way to steam power. I hesitate gifting it to them because they might trade it around. Instead, I tell Washington to switch to SciMeth (the only other tech available to him).

T5 - AP resolution succeeds with HRE's votes alone. Hey - they're pope! Hey - we'll be pope soon!
Troops move east along Portugal's roads. We'll have to spend a turn or two healing in Oporto though before it's on to Vienna. HRE's garrisons are even more pathetic than Portugal's were. They have these cute little things though:

T6 - We get another GS in Washington. No idea what to use him for so I let him hang out with the GE for a bit.
HRE has a mine in the desert. No resource there. Does that mean they already have Physics and it's Uranium? Wow. No airships in sight though.

Actually, F4 says quite a few people have Physics. To be precise, all but us and our vassal.

Speaking of which, Portugal will research SciMeth for us in 16. After that, maybe we can extort Physics from HRE!

I notice there are several AIs we don't have open borders with, so no trade. I change that and our income goes up by ~30 gpt. FM is definitely worth it at this point.
We have more cash than we can spend on rushbuying stuff (unless we buy without hammer investment). I start building observatories and unis so we can turn research back on once we have some cash in the bank.

T7 - Portugal is now scheduled for SciMeth in 11. This is a pretty useful vassal if I may say so!
Troops rest for a turn in Oporto to heal up. After that it's DoW to HRE. Incidentally, there's an airship in Vienna now along with two rifles.

T8 - Airship has moved to Prague. This means they shouldn't be able to bombard our troops without first relocating back north. Vienna has two rifles. We have 8 cannons, 6 grens, 2 rifles. Moving in!

(oops, I cropped the wrong line from the screenshot )

Even losing the trades with HRE, FM is still pretty nice. I decide not to switch back before the GA expires.

T9 - troops arrive at Vienna, still only two rifles. No airship action.
GA ends but we're still filthy rich.

T10 - The turn starts off with a useless event and Roosevelt (of Babylon all the way in the west) circumnavigating.

However things quickly become more interesting:

Our good luck continues with two grenadier wins at 78% and 90%. And then:

Not much left standing but should make for a nice gift to Portugal. ETA on SciMeth is 10 turns, by which we should have HRE beaten down enough to extort Physics. I didn't extort anything out of Portugal yet because I'm hoping we might get them to pleased and not suffer relationship penalties for asking. Feel free to discard that thought once we get Mining Inc.

I haven't done any research this set, but we're getting 470gpt right now and I just bought Wall Street in Boston this turn - next turn we should be near 600. NY is out of infra to build and ready for military unless we want to get IW there. All cities are getting observatories and unis for the day we run out of stuff to buy and turn research back on.

Lisboa is coming out of revolt in 2, I suggest buying some infrastructure up there. Our army is ready to roll and in fact still has movement left. Not sure if we should give it a turn for the used cannons to catch up or just move ahead to bombard Aachen while they follow. HRE has no offensive troops but a single airship and a catapult or two, and last time I checked just 2 rifles in Aachen. It's a pretty cool city, too.


r_rolo1
Thrar - just played
LKendter - UP
Sengir - on deck
vanatteveldt

 

[LKendter]

In the queue for tonight. I'll see how much I can get done, as I can't play after tonight until Tuesday with the 3 day weekend in the US and lots of family stuff to do.

 

[LKendter]

1901 AD
Start moving the stack toward Aachen.


1902 AD
I couldn't figure out the enemy by Philadelphia message until I spotted an explorer to kill. This action is good for a great general.
I queue up Iron Works in New York, but I do wonder if the game will last long enough for it to pay off. If Portugal is typical of what we are fighting, this won't last too long.

I start Boston on barracks and troops to follow.


1904 AD
We now have a level 3 medic explorer.
(IT) I hope I don't regret just no to end the war vs. Cathy.


1905 AD



We now own the AP. It will no longer be a nuisance.
2 airships went poof.
(IT) Thank you Portugal, the AP vote fails.


1911 AD




1912 AD



Cathy's new capital is toast thanks to the reinforcement stack. Another airship is toast.



Summary:
I went from 22.15% to 27.63% during my turn for domination. We have 3 of Cathy's former cities with double border pops coming up. Vienna still is to pop its second ring. My gut says all of Cathy's territory will take us close to 40%.

In my opinion we should finish Cathy, and then send everything to the Khmer.
I don't think National Park, or any other wonders are worth it. As for as I am concerned cash rush barracks, levees, forges and troops.
This game isn't at all what I expected. The AI is far too thin on units. I think we have enough techs to win right now. Just buy a ton of cannons to go with our troops.

 

[Sengir]

Nice going, this is turning out a lot easier then expected.

I won't be able to play until sunday, I'm a bit swamped by RL. If someone wants to take it before, please go ahead.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Great turnsets.

I played a couple industrial games in the mean time, I like the setting; but the AI is pathetic at it militarily. I guess the normal 'unitprob' algorithm just can't handle the much faster buildup cycles of late starts?

I agree with ignoring everything that's not building units. We should probably get a bug stack of "suicide cavalry" to not waste our slow army going after smaller cities. As soon as an AI capital and SoD (if it has one) are down the cavalry can take out these pathetic garrisons. Edit: NM, I see in the save that we have some nice cav stacks already.

Rolo: you were right on assembly line, I hadn't thought that it would be such a pushover...

BTW Portugal has SciMeth already and Steam in 1 turn. All the AI have steam already so no reason not to give it now to Washington. We can buy scimeth for 1680 gold, a reasonable price for 2200 beakers? OTOH, we can also research RR in 5 turns and trade it for scimeth. Asoko already has RR so it won't harm so much to give it to Washington. Edit: Capac of Kmer has assembly line already, so it will be at least a bit tougher; although the two cities we can see only have 2 infantry garrison, so that still shouldn't be that difficult.

I would normally halt now for 11 turns to research RR and AL at 100%, upgrade, and continue the march; but given the competition from team B it's probably wiser to spend those 11 turns capturing Khmer. We have 15 cannon, 23 rifle+gren, and 13 cavalry, which should be enough to take on a bunch of infantry. Why don't we use the worker near the Khmer border to do some scouting while we finish off HRE and heal up, and then DOW unless HC has a hidden SoD that would make it more prudent to wait?


BTW I could swap with Sengir and play tomorrow to keep up the momentum; I don't think we really need to make very detailed plans at this stage?

 

[LKendter]

r_rolo1
Thrar - just played
LKendter - UP
Sengir - on deck
vanatteveldt

I won't be able to play until sunday, I'm a bit swamped by RL. If someone wants to take it before, please go ahead.

BTW I could swap with Sengir and play tomorrow to keep up the momentum; I don't think we really need to make very detailed plans at this stage?

Go for it. Sengir was looking for a swap.

I agree we don't need much in plans. The slow stack is already moving to the next coastal town, and the reinforcements toward the next town along out border.

Watch the stray grenadier moving along the edge of our borders.

We may want a settler for a southern town if Cathy hasn't gotten to the bottom of her area. We have plenty of cash, and every city counts for domination.

 

[Thrar]

Excellent, moving along nicely!

BTW Portugal has SciMeth already and Steam in 1 turn. All the AI have steam already so no reason not to give it now to Washington. We can buy scimeth for 1680 gold, a reasonable price for 2200 beakers?

Why would we pay a vassal for a tech unless we can't use the cash otherwise?