RR4- Spain on a lake..... Again :p

Thy_Spellcraft · Jun 17, 2009

Finally I did it.. I'm sorry for needing that long, but as Rollo said "your set will be decisive for the game" I rather took a day longer than srcewing it up..

And your faith was rewarded somehow:
I did as I was demanded at spilled LOTS of blood..

Spoiler :

As you could see we've got a peace treaty with Charly.. That's because Cyrus was willing to capitulate, and as my bloodthirst wasn't satisfied, I made it impossible for him to vassalize to Charly:

Spoiler :

Tht made one minus in diplo to him but do we care about minor details?? :lol:

In the end of my set there where 6 turns left of this treaty, so we need to discuss how to go on with Cyrus as we won't kick him out of our continent within 5 turns..

Just to give you a short overview of the current state of the war:

Spoiler :

There's another jobless GG from 1906.. Team should decide what to do with him!!

Techwise I did as decided: After Combusion Electricity and afterwards Industrialism..

By the way: We definitely need a lot of culture within our ethiopian cities, as they're revolting whole of my set.. (Debre Berhan twice, Adis Abeba and Gondar once) So please keep the artists and get some more troops over there after the war is finished.

And I started some infa-build phase already as the war is won and we don't need any more troops at the moment!!

r_rolo1 · Jun 17, 2009

Ok, got it....

Quick review of what we still want of cyrus land:
-The green area . This means Ectabana and Pasargadae
-The only wonders Cyrus has, Broadway, that is in Susa and Pentagon + Rock and Roll, that are in Ectabana.

I think it is feasible to get this 3 cities in 6 turns and then ask the cap of Cyrus. Too bad that we will not port this to 3.19, where vassals are alawys willing to tech trade with their masters

.... we could extort some nice techs from cyrus

On techs, I suggest Ind->Medicine ( for finally putting that GM to a good use )->something.... any idea?

GreyFox · Jun 17, 2009

Great warring :thumbsup:

... Cyrus paid his price for being a peace-lover and not build up his military while he had the lead. :hammer:

I think we can capitulate Cyrus anytime we damn well please. As of now, he is not willing to part with techs (although he is willing to part with city :confused:

). We should probably either hammer him further until he is willing to give us some nice techs, or simply send him to the graves ... I couldn't care less about Charlemagne. Better still if he declare on us ... we get to conquest victory by vassalizing him (along with his current vassals) in one go.

If we are shifting to infrastructure build, we should change civics.

GG: we can get another supermedic, or settle him in Barcelona (HE City) or Angle (Westpoint City).

Speaking of medic, a knight medic is all alone outside Passagarde. Speaking of Angle, it should work on Banana to halt starvation.

Research wise, we should definitely get Industrialism (and hopefully gets tons of Aluminum which will add hammers to all cities, thanks to CreCon). Thereafter, I am fine with heading for Medicine. But I was thinking of flight to set up the stage for invasion of the Holy Romans.

Build wise, we should probably concentrate on infrastructure, christian missionaries for our newly annexed cities (revolt to OR!!!), and CreCon executive to at least make even with the maintenance cost of CreCon HQ. A lot of cities that were building wealth can probably get back to infrastructure builds once we are in OR. However, what I cannot understand is the massive Jail builds. Useless since we are not facing happy issue in those cities building jails.

Good luck. I suspect, starting will Rolo, this will probably be our last couple round of turns.

:hammer:

Let the world burn!!! (how many degree was it that city burns?)

--

LKendter · Jun 17, 2009

I would concentrate Creative Con on those cities suffering revolts. This is one of the PITA with having a vassal.

Thy_Spellcraft · Jun 17, 2009

Medicine sounds good as we need some more health in a couple of cities.. And this may even allow to build some coal plants.. And finding Sushi sounds good as well!!

What's about the GP? I'm not sure whether we can still get a one GP golden age, but in case we cannot it may be the best idea to settle him in Madrid..

GreyFox · Jun 18, 2009

I think we need 3 GPersons to trigger the next GAge, so GAge for the GProphet is probably out. Settling in Wall Street is fine, or founding the Taoist Shrine. Doesn't really matter at this stage.

--

Ad Hoc · Jun 18, 2009

Mighty good warring :hammer:

i think we could spread mining inc to a few cities as well to make some real :hammers:

monster cities.

Just my luck though i'm away this weekend ( Won't be able to play until wednesday) so if rolo gets thru his turns skip me until then

r_rolo1 · Jun 19, 2009

After analysing the situation, it became clear to me that we needed to vassal Cyrus. Why?

Spoiler :

We simply can't invade this island for a long long time....

Anyway , with that said, we made the military road. But not before the pope call:

Spoiler :

No vote chosen ....

And while we marched in aproach to the enemy cities, Cyrus decides to go terrorist mode:

Spoiler :

This hurted some cities a lot, especially Seville

And the spanish troops march in:

Spoiler :

The last one was mainly to remove cultural pressure

With that said, we called Cyrus to the negotiation table:

Spoiler :

It was the best deal we could get. BTW the next player should found sushi ( i completely forgot :blush:

)

A nice event... too bad that we don't have radio ( 250 culture in every city would be a blessing for those cities that we conquered recently )

Spoiler :

And, after teching Industrialism, Bio and democracy +medicine by trading/extorting, we get flight. Not bad for 10 turns of play:

Spoiler :

I queued Fission, but it is only a place holder....

Glance and tech screen

Spoiler :

In spite of Charlie dropped the worst enemy tag of us, this is pretty much poised to WW I

Charlie revolted this turn, but he's quite close of getting Fission himself ( 3 turns IIRC )

I also left the EP spending as it was ( 3 on Cyrus, 1 on everyone else ). I'm still with hopes that we can steal something from him until the end of the game. On a completely unrelated note, we shold get radio soon, to be able to build Eifell. That would help a lot the issue of the revolting cities. regarding that, we should pay special attention to Gordium, Persepolis and Pasargadae, because they are under heavy aztec cultural pressure and they can flip to Monty. I already made a cathedral in Gordium, but the other 2 cities are still in revolt. Be careful in removing troops from there. Alos, be liberal with the christian missionaries and buildings

( now we also have sankore

)

On military, I started making a credible metal navy and transports to ferry our troops to charlieland. It is possible to build Battleship + transport in Barcelona in 2 turns and like that it should be easy to get a credible seafaring ability. But anyway , we are in the time of making airports and drydocks. The last war will be bloody, but for the first time in the game, I think we will have the upper hand both in material as in technology when it happens.

Ad Hoc asked to be skipped until wednesday. This means that LK is up to :hammer:

LKendter · Jun 19, 2009

Can I get a swap? Sunday night is the earliest possibly play time.

r_rolo1 · Jun 19, 2009

If greyfox can play it earlier, it is OK to swap ...

Can you play before sunday, greyfox?

GreyFox · Jun 19, 2009

Nice bit of warring there!!! :goodjob:

Good rolol'ing

But IMHO, if you are worrying abt cultural pressure, surely Herat should be razed rather than kept. We have to burn some city to pay homage to the Isolationsit series! (by the way, your destroyer movement caused it to currently park outside our border :trouble:

).

The ships builds is dubious, but obviously we need enough to bring first wave of forces to Fasil Ghebbi. The reason why I say it is dubious since we can only use ships to transport troops to that Zara city, and nothing else. Attacking Charlie cannot be done using naval route by decree of our variant. Hence, we need to get airports up once we capture a city to allow infinite transfer of troops.

Obviously, since you have forgotten even to found sushi, doubt you have paid any attention to civics. Here is what I suggest: We should trade Flight to Zara for communism (and stop trading with Charlie). Flight is so that Zara hopefully will build an airport in fasil Ghebbi ... (fat hope, yeah, but one can dream, right? :lol:

). The main plain is to revolt to: Organised Religion, 2d Edit: ~~State Property~~, and Universal Suffrage.

Oragnised Religion is to help with the vast number of infra builds and continue the spread of Christianity. With Pentagon, we don't really need theocracy anymore.

2nd EDIT: ~~State Property is obvious.~~

Universal Suffrage is to rush buy. That is the fastest way to victory. Turn science to zero, and buy all the infrastructure we need. Number one on the list are airports. Next high up is factories. Research and commerce boosting buildings for city with high cottages. No coal plants please since we have 3GG. If needed, rush buy some executives and missionaries. Anything to help get even more money (it is unfortunate that is Zara got the Kremelin instead of Cyrus).

With the above, I think we can declare after the next turnset. It will be an easy war. Charlie don't even have Economics yet. But careful about Sally, he is capable of researching flight and Industrialism (one wonders how he ends up a vassal of Charlie :crazyeye:

)

Good luck!

:hammer:

EDIT: oops, good luck to myself it seems :lol:

I got it. What do people think of my plan?

2nd EDIT: scratch the plan to go state property -- just realized it will cause corporation to go null. I think given that, +1 specialist is better than no distance upkeep, and the hammer bonus from corporations will outweigh the hammer benefits from SP. Then there is no point getting Communism from Zara :crazyeye:

Thy_Spellcraft · Jun 20, 2009

As always your plan sounds definitely good..
But we also need to keep an eye on sury as he's going for cultural, and at the end of my turnset he was less than 100 turns away from victory!

GreyFox · Jun 20, 2009

No worry, the game should be over in 40 turns. Even if it does not, we will probably take over at least one of his legendary cities by then.

I studied a few strategy articles regarding corporations, and am beginning to feel like an idiot. :blush:

Seems like right now, the best way (read: quickest) forward is to simply spread the corporation to our vassals and reap the benefit of +12gpt per foreign branch office, without actually spreading them domestically (which will cost us more gold, something like 20gpt in maintenance after courthouse). Thereafter, going state property (can't build exec while in SP, but will still enjoy the +12gpt per corporate branch) will probably still fit our situation best, especially when we start capturing overseas cities.

Although mining inc or creative con will get us much better gold to hammer ratio than universal suffrage, the best thing about universal suffrage is it is an immediate rush. We get our courthouses/factories/banks immediately rather than slowly through hammers provided by branch offices.

--

GreyFox · Jun 21, 2009

My turnset is boring, but fun in a micromanager's way. :hammer:

Although I mentioned earlier we would probably go for foreign corporation income, it turns out that Monty and Zara are both in mercantilism, and since we are in mercantilism as well, we can't ask them to switch. I did contemplate on switching to free market for 5 turns just to make them change, but abandon it. Simply not important at this stage of the game. Ended up I spread creative con and sid's sushi to quite a few of our cities. Mainly those that need more food to grow and also some of those cities under vassal culture pressure revolts. Turns out the maintenance cost is really nothing (thanks to HQ being in Wall Steet), and the benefit is awesome.

Anyway, back to the beginning, I reviewed the trades:

Firstly to cancel the corn trade with Sury which will be canceled anyway when we declare war. Might as well get it from Monty (however it turns out 2 turns later, the corn Monty had became ours :crazyeye:

). The other thing I did was to gather materials for our Sushi Masters and Creative Constructors, in preparation for the Sushi-loving Great Prophet to settle in Madrid:

Next is revolting to universal suffrage as mentioned. The hammers from towns was great, and the ability to rush buys banks/grocers etc is awesome, especially in ex-Persian cities with the two corps HQ and Hindu shrine.

I rushed a lot of infrastructure, but I don't think anyone is really interested in those (if you are, refer to the log).

I think I have also converted all of our cities to christianity. I have also converted both Zara and Cyrus to christianity, hopefully our relationships will improve more and allow us to trade techs. We got Fission, which Cyrus do not have, so we are simply waiting for him to to get to friendly.

But I did not rely solely on that. I'd also produced two spies to camp in Cyrus land. Unfortunately, it would be quite a while until we can steal a tech.

We are just halfway there :eek:

Fortunately, my last turn, we got a Great Spy against all odds.

Obviously, an Infiltration is the best option, and hence I sent him northwest towards Cyrus.

Finally, I have also moved our forces all the way to the east, since that is the only route we can use due to our variant. Thanks to the huge culture produced by creative-con and sid-sushi, I was able to move a lot of units tied up in military police duty away from ex Persian cities. It was quite a bit of work ferrying, and at the end, half of them is still waiting for their turn to be shipped over:

Despite that, I think we can declare on the first turn of the next player. Here are the forces we have, and the initial resistance we will face:

It will easy :hammer:

The only thing we have to be careful is Sally attacking across the ocean from the west. Hence, I suggest rush buying some naval defense in our western cities (esp the ex-Persian cities).

I have marked cities with airports as such, so remember to make good use of them. I also suggest building the red cross in Barcelona. I know it looks weird to be in OR when going to declare war, so if next player wants to, he can revolt to theocracy. I think state property at this stage is not needed (plus it will nullify our corps).

It doesn't really matter now -- the game is already won, what's remaining is only its implementation. So, just have fun, okay? :hammer:

Spoiler Autolog of First two Turns :

I don't really expect the save to return to me

GreyFox · Jun 21, 2009

Spoiler Autolog of Remaining Turns :

The log exceeds 30k characters, hence needs to break. Some more notes:
- I have automated most workers (build networks)
- We will have radio next turn. Time for some bombers action :hammer:

hammer:
- I don't really care what we research next ... may be techs to get us Mech Inf or Mobile Artillery or Modern Armour?

r_rolo1 · Jun 21, 2009

Nicely played, and indeed I don't expect that you play this game again ( unless there is massive summer dropouts

).

Besides that, I think that the easiest path to get new and shiny troops would be research towards Advanced flight. Gunships are superb units indeed and we could also give some use to rocketry for some nice pics of nuclear mushrooms :hammer:

( for that we would need manhattan, but that would be easy to make as well )

Just take care of this:

Spoiler :

They are not exactly top of the pop, but 43 grens are something to respect. so, don't take unnecessary risks until this threat is erased.

LK, you're UP .... :hammer:

as much as you want

LKendter · Jun 21, 2009

Maybe the swap didn't work out. I am the rare player that prefers builder turns and I just lost them.

It is in the quue for maybe tomorrow. War turns take a ton of time for me...

LKendter · Jun 22, 2009

I've started tonight, but to be honest I don't expect to finish until at least Wed. Modern war turns are just to much of a major time-suck, and I already have most of tomorrow night booked.

LKendter · Jun 24, 2009

1935 AD
I found the stack still on our landmass. This is too much to not have in action for my taste so I delay declaring.
(IT) We can complete fascism in 1 turn, so I do so to let us build Mt. Rushmore just in case we need WW help.

1936 AD
I can't recall what the great spy is for, so I have to go back and reread the thread. OK - infiltrate Cyrus it is...
(IT) To be honest, I don't know how much tech matters at this point. I pick mass media for another wonder just in case.

1937 AD
Looking at logistics more I change my mind, and start the war. We need to get a smaller city from Charlie to get an airport rushed. War begins :hammer:

With Charlie having 2 vassals, and us 3 I get overloaded with hearing war horns.
As expected Zeila falls the first turn. Even this small city needs 7 turns to come out of resistance.

We get rewarded with a great general.
The general is merged into Barcelona.
The spy infiltrates Cyrus.
(IT) That was a long time for the AI phase. We lost 5 tanks, but Charlie lost quite a few doing so.

1938 AD
The big action is slaughtering a stack of Charlie's.

1939 AD
Lubeck is captured.
(IT) The AI is really goofy sometimes. He had a large stack by Zeila, I reinforced with a handful of units and he retreats. If they hit full force I don't know if we would have kept the city.
Next up for tech is rocketry. We will have the option for SAM infantry.

1940 AD
The stack is still there sitting in a fort. :crazyeye:

I beat up Sury's obsolete stack that showed up north of Lubeck.
(IT) A positively brutal turn as this time the AI takes Zeila back. In addition another ship shows up and kills the last transport escorts, and 1 loaded transport.

1941 AD
I start to nibble at the Zeila stack that moved south of it. This stack is still large even after hitting it with everything in range.
First time in ages I saw the blue screen of death was trying to play this turn.
(IT) I really don't know what to do for tech. I pick plastics just in case we get a chance for 3GD.
We complete the Eiffel Tower to further push our culture.

1942 AD
I continue to shred the outside Zeila stack. Tanks with air support eat rifles and cavalry alive.

I play whack a stack in Pisa and kill quite a few for almost no losses, but there are simply to many units to take the city this turn.
(IT) Arabia sends a stack at Lubeck, but it mostly dies. The stack was to small.

1943 AD
Now it is whack a stack in Zeila itself. It holds, but quite a few units were fried.

This time Pisa falls.

We have another GG that is heading overseas to form another medic unit.

I am out of time for tonight, and won't be able to play tomorrow so I am turning it over now.

Sorry about no pictures, but my PC was barely handling running civ. Late game is brutal on this machine. This is the same reason for several reloads trying to get through these turns.

I continued to build executives to spread culture to the foreign cities with an emphasis on the ones with possible revolts.

GreyFox · Jun 25, 2009

Great warring! :hammer:

Inflitration is indeed useless, now the traget for stealing tech moves tp 28.8K (ridiculous). Fortunately, with 50% discount, only 14.5K is needed, so we need only to add 2K or so.

We already own the 3GD (thanks to Cyrus) so please halt Plastics (we can trade it with Cyrus when he gets friendly -- or steal it

-- plus we don't want to obsolete a happy resource unnecessarily). Heading to advance flights seems fine to get gunships. Once gunships is in, I think we can stop research a while to get money for massive upgrade to gunships.

A few cities with redfaces should stop building factories but rush some temples or other happy-buildings.

There is one source of unneted fish in the south near Atzcap-whatever ... good to net it for more sushi :yummy:

Good luck! :hammer:

--

RR4- Spain on a lake..... Again :p

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