Running out of money during war

When you say "have purpose" and "have direction" what is it you are expecting me to do lymond. I cant ask you guys "what should i do" every turn and i dont want to. I saw you mention direction in an earlier post and I wanted to post "what do you mean, theres nothing I can do" but i did not want to sound rude. I am doing the best that I can. Respectfully :) Also if you are asking me to post multiple screenshots and ask what to do for turns, I dont like to do that. I prefer to ask questions and get information. And as far as using what I have learned here in my game, I have implemented a lot of what I have read here. Slavery, more chops, specializing cities, building more cities in the beginning. I dont know what else to do, im doing the best i can lol. My plan on the Noble level was to research culture techs and win culturally, but my research isnt quick enough on Prince mode to research so many culture techs so early.
 
I kinda saying those things in a vacuum - in a general sense - as I don't really see any attainable goals in that game.

The problem with the current game is much of what you implemented is far too late to be of real use. (that is, there were points we were just going on what you were saying but not realizing it was so late game) As mentioned, it's your early game that a lot of work, so you are in a better place by this point - or really actually winning the games by now :)

I'm not telling you not to keep playing that particular game however you wish. What I'm trying to convey is that it is not useful for the purpose of learning here on this forum.

I understand your reservations about the process, but this is what I recommend you try now - at least give a shot:

1) Play BTS and use normal settings/map script (like Panagaea)
2) Post a shadow game over in Strategy & Tips
3) Get advice on the opening, at the very start
4) Play short turnsets getting advice at each stopping point (or stopping as you wish to ask questions)
5) Do this for at least the first 50 turns to see how it goes

Even those first 50 turns, which are fast by the way, you will learn a tremendous amount about the game that will apply to anything you do. From there, you can either continue that process for longer or move to a mode where you play more freely and leave it to more of posting pics or saves and asking questions as you progress.

Pics are are nice to have, but not necessarily required. The saves though are what we really need so we can see all aspects of the game. The only thing about pics is that they entice more folks to look and help, or some can help if they can't access the game at the moment. But saves are what I look at mainly when giving advice.

Also, with the start save, some folks may actually play along with you. Hence, why we call it a shadow game.

There's no criticism here. It's all positive feelings, happiness and fluffy bunnies ;). It's all about helping you get better at the game we all love.
 
Yeah I need help early game. Some things you guys told me to do, like build obelisks early and that should keep cities from impending on my tiles, I did not do this game. I feel like basic things that maybe many civ players have been doing since the beginning, I quit doing playing Prince level cause i saw my research lagging behind. Not building the obelisks early on being one of them. But i didnt have slavery to implement then and i did not know about city specialization then. Im gonna start a new BTS game and try to research everything I think i will need, and implement other things you guys told me, like building my cities closer together and eventually getting a seventh city. Then hopefully my research will catch up. No more not researching techs cause im freaked out about research. Im gonna start a new game. Thank you lymond.
 
I think I saw an edit to your post that I missed intially

I saw you mention direction in an earlier post and I wanted to post "what do you mean,

nothing rude about that question at all. Many times my points are meant to provoke further discourse, especially when I don't have much to go on

theres nothing I can do".

and that is actually the answer :lol:
 
Yeah I need help early game. Some things you guys told me to do, like build obelisks early and that should keep cities from impending on my tiles, I did not do this game. I feel like basic things that maybe many civ players have been doing since the beginning, I quit doing playing Prince level cause i saw my research lagging behind. Not building the obelisks early on being one of them. But i didnt have slavery to implement then and i did not know about city specialization then. Im gonna start a new BTS game and try to research everything I think i will need, and implement other things you guys told me, like building my cities closer together and eventually getting a seventh city. Then hopefully my research will catch up. No more not researching techs cause im freaked out about research. Im gonna wait and see how this new game goes before posting on strategy forum. Thank you lymond

(Note: Monuments in BTS)

Actually, I try to avoid building monuments as much as I possibly can. It's how well you settle your land that determines that, but sometimes you will need a monument..say..to access a seafood that simply can't be reached (if not Creative).

However, the main point was to try to settle with important resources in the 1st ring of a city so you can build more important things. Or overlap cities where you can to take advantage of resource sharing.

Monuments take time and hammers. Remember that each turn counts, especially as you move up levels. So if you have to build a Monument, do it as fast as possible. Ideally chop it out fast, or if you have a strong food resource in action, whip it first thing at size 2).

Prince - AIs get a slight bonus on humans, but it is not a big step up from Noble. The issues you have regarding research pace stem primarily on how you play. There are several factors...again, a bit hard to translate in a vacuum.

My initial advice though at Prince or Noble, is to focus only on those worker techs first. Food>BW>Writing (via Pot or AH)>Alpha. Once you have Alpha, you can make educated and smart decisions on valuable tech trading and pick up all those small techs you avoided. Then go to Currency.

At least for now, focus on getting 6 cities by 1AD. Then you can make decisions on your goals and such.

Oh...and I would recommend at least for now, that you at least peruse around in S&T a bit, like in the Nobles Club game, to get some familiarity. See what folks are talking about and how the discussions go. It's a friendly place.
 
I dont get it lolz

ha..what I meant it is that was basically my point. Your game is pretty much at a dead end. There's not much you can do:cool:
 
like build obelisks early and that should keep cities from impending on my tiles

I really need to dispel this line of thinking here ..ha. Monuments(obelisks) really are not built for the purpose of preventing AI culture from impending on your tiles. The only purpose really, outside of Charismatic trait, is to expand borders early to acquire more tiles or access that unreachable resource. Monuments provide very weak culture. If AI gets a religion, is Creative, or pops borders first, you are not likely to gain that second layer anyway.

I just really want to move you away from thinking about the building that way. Build a monument only when absolutely needed. (note: i rarely build them myself unless Charismatic and I very often don't tech Mysticism)

So really the issue with this impending culture has more to do with your early game moves, getting your empire setup in a timely fashion with a good settling pattern. Borders will eventually get adjacent to AIs one way or another, which is okay.... and there are times when an AI may do an aggressive settle against you. Ofc, then it is time to bring out the beat stick.
 
(Note: Monuments in BTS)

Actually, I try to avoid building monuments as much as I possibly can. It's how well you settle your land that determines that, but sometimes you will need a monument..say..to access a seafood that simply can't be reached (if not Creative).

However, the main point was to try to settle with important resources in the 1st ring of a city so you can build more important things. Or overlap cities where you can to take advantage of resource sharing.

Monuments take time and hammers. Remember that each turn counts, especially as you move up levels. So if you have to build a Monument, do it as fast as possible. Ideally chop it out fast, or if you have a strong food resource in action, whip it first thing at size 2).

Prince - AIs get a slight bonus on humans, but it is not a big step up from Noble. The issues you have regarding research pace stem primarily on how you play. There are several factors...again, a bit hard to translate in a vacuum.

My initial advice though at Prince or Noble, is to focus only on those worker techs first. Food>BW>Writing (via Pot or AH)>Alpha. Once you have Alpha, you can make educated and smart decisions on valuable tech trading and pick up all those small techs you avoided. Then go to Currency.

At least for now, focus on getting 6 cities by 1AD. Then you can make decisions on your goals and such.

Oh...and I would recommend at least for now, that you at least peruse around in S&T a bit, like in the Nobles Club game, to get some familiarity. See what folks are talking about and how the discussions go. It's a friendly place.

Well i dont know what to do then if im not going to build the monuments. I never built monuments either but someone here was like build monuments and I thought it would help my culture dilemma. But I think (the culture dilemma) will be fixed by having my cities closer together, thereby generating more income, not having the research in my cities go down, and then having more research. And as far as settling cities that have good resources, thats what I was doing in my previous games, but you guys said i was settling too far away from my capital. So I can either build on good land closer to the capital, or I can settle further away and have more good resources in my cities. And obviously settling my cities so far from my capital is not working for me.
 
Yeah, not sure where that advice came from. I'm not saying not to build them, but rather they should not be your focus, and certainly not to deal with impending AI culture. There are some ways to deal with AI culture, the best being to kill them. But the issue of culture should be far from your worries at this stage. this is just not important

This is about going back to the basics and really learning the game a whole new way.

Land does determine how you settle. You can't always settle as compactly as you wish, but you can settle in a pattern that puts you in a better position early for many things. Keep in mind that there is a lot we are not seeing in your game at this point. Also there is more than just how you settle. These are bits and pieces of advice that make up a greater whole.

One of the things you hear so often with many questions about this game is that "things are situational". However, there are some basic guidelines and strategies that are helpful early. Once you get familiar with them and practice them it opens up new things.

I do realize it may be hard to digest all the information at once, especially coming from different people. But you will be able to start reading between the lines and seeing there are some consistent points of view.

I actually think you are doing the right thing at the very moment. That is, just diving into BTS and getting some familiarity and practicing the early game. But I can't stress enough how much a shadow game will help you improve.

There's also a lot of other tools/advice you can find on this site/forum to help too. But your #1 source is the people here.

(oh, can't remember if I mentioned it but do take a look at these unaltered gameplay mods for BTS..they do enhance the experience:

BUG )
 
To clarify, the advice was to build a monument/library to reclaim the first ring of your city rather than to use a great artist to reclaim your land.

This is a specific situation, and is not meant to be applied to every city. That same post also noted that the better solution is often to not contest the culture in the first place.

You'll find that very few things need to be built in every city, and learning to determine what your specific situation calls for is most of the game.
 
To help you dsfsdf:

CIV is a game that follows a concept called "snowballing" . You start a snowball, it gets bigger and bigger and it becomes a lawine. if you gain only a minor advantage in early game, that advantage will be huge from midgame onwards, that's why lymond wants you to post that game. Play a 2nd game in paralell if waiting 2 days for advice and only proceeding 10T after that is too slow for you (it'd be way too slow for me) , but do it. Post a game, post a save, post screens, ask for advice, wait. You'll never come in the situation that you'll have problems with research if you do that because you'll be so much stronger than all AIs so fast that you cannot imagine it. Prince, while it looks like a medium difficulty, is atually still a very low difficulty, because difficulty rises exponentially in CIV. Deity i. e. is at least 10 times more difficult than Immortal, they're actually so different that it's hard to even compare them. On Prince, you can have the game won in the BC's without any problems, you can found 3 cities and conquer 1-2 opponents directly with the earliest units that make sense (Chariots, Axes) getting you in a position where you have 20 cities instead of 5 etc. .

But to help you, what I can see from your screens, is:


1. New York:

- Has a settled Great Engineer. Don't settle Great People, it's a waste, use their "special abilities" (Trade Mission, Academy, Shrine) or bulb a tech with them.
- The city has an Academy, in that city, the Academy is useless, because the city only has little potential in research as you run it as a GP-Farm
- The city works "bad tiles" . In CIV, every citizen consumes 2 :food: . The Plains Farms you're working therefore net 1 :hammers: , that's not worth being worked, you could more easily whip those tiles away for anything useful. As you got all buildings though, that could only be units, you simply should have stopped the city growing any further earlier, so it doesn't even grow on those tiles. Then you'd also not be concerned about the Healthiness and would not build the Aequeduct. All of those saved resources gain you an advantage somewhere else.
- The University, the Theater and the Aequeduct are all not needed = wasted resources. The Cottages aren't worked so those are wasted Workerturns (Workerturns are very valuable! ) but the Wine therefore is not improved, so there you're missing out on an excellent tile and a whole resource which you could use for Happiness or trade with an AI for another resource or :gold: .
- Building Wealth is usually better than building Research. Imagine: Libraries are cheap and give 25% :science: , Markets are expensive and give the same amount of bonus though. If you build Wealth, which is as effective as building Research, you can run at 100% science instead of building Research and run 100% gold. This lets you take advantage of the cheaper building = win.
- Your Traderoutes are internal. This should not be the case, unless you own so many cities, that you run out of AIs you can trade with. This indicates a problem with road or river connections or the lack of Open Borders. Note, that foreign Traderoutes give at least twice as much :commerce: , that's free money, you want those in any case. Foreign Borders doesn't matter however, unless they're with the worst enemy of someone else, Foreign Borders are simply a plain advantage and you need trade connections towards the other civs.
- The city is making 37 :culture: . I don't know what buildings you built when scrolling down, but they're all wrong probably. :culture: is worth nothing in that city, it doesn't have border pressure, :culture: is generally worth almost nothing though, except if you specifically play for a cultural victory, what you need is :commerce: = :science: / :gold: .
- The city has a Barracks, it won't ever build a unit though, because it has almost no :hammers: and runs as a GP-Farm = waste.
- You're in very late game, but still only have Gold and Silver as Happiness resources. I assume, you don't know about Plantations and similar.
- You NEED the Bug mod. I can't see half as much as I could, because much of the important info just isn't shown.


2. Chicago:

- Works an unimproved tile. That tile should have been chopped long ago, and it should have been Mined or Windmilled. Chops are the biggest instant gain to production you can get.
- The Plains Mines are bad tiles again, they cost 2 :food: while giving 4 :hammers: . Via the whip, 2 :food: can be as much as 5.5 :hammers: , so working those 2 tiles actually costs you :hammers: . Same for the unimproved tile.
- The city has the NE, therefore should run Specialists, it has Cottages though, tons of Monestaries that all aren't needed because Monestaries are weak buildings of which one only wants 1-2 to be able to build Missionaries without Organized Religion ("OR") . The city should be all farmed like the city before, and at least run 4 Specialists, otherwise the NE is simply a waste.
- The city has no real source of food and it doesn't has access to fresh water. Found cities where there is food and try to found them next to a river or lake and not 1 tile far from those :) .
- The city has an Academy, that again are wasted resources, it's research potential is low. Only your capital should have an Academy and that city should be fully cottaged and run Burocracy, then the :commerce: gets multiplied that heavily, that the Academy is of great help. Better bulb techs with GSs than founding more than one Academy :) .
- Several things from the screenshot before, like i. e. no foreign TRs.


Screenshot 3: The clearview

- The capital still has Forests.
- No resource bubbles shown, so I cannot see anything ;( .
- All cities are too big, except for the capital, that one is too small. Try to let your capital grow, build all the multipliers in it and use your other cities to produce units, that's called specialization. The capital produces the :science: , the other cities are only there to help.
- The map looks simply ugly, seldomly saw such bad territory as the southern Plains + Mountains area.
- No BUG mod, so nothing more possible ;) .


Try to take the above as a clear sign, that I'm trying to help you. Try to notice, that I notice many errors in your play, but simply can't see anymore because of lack of info. Try not to feel bad about yourself, you even running Specialists at all is already good, I didn't even know they existed when I played Prince 8y ago. Plz try to take that advice from lymond and me, and post that game with the screenshots in S&T where you only play 10T and then wait for advice for 1-2d. I gave you a lot of things you could improve on already, but I probably cannot even see half of the errors that you made because the BUG mod is not available, and I also cannot see everything from just 3 screens. Just try to notice, that it's a lot and that we're really all trying to help you. You can keep your way, take the game you post as a 2nd paralell game and understand about what I wrote on snowballs and civ, but also really take those points in the lists towards the 3 screens, because all of them are good and writing all of this costed at least half an hour.
 
@dsfsdf

I'm not such a good player as most on here but would win on Prince readily enough. You've been given some good advice but must feel utterly overwhelmed.

I liked this from Pangaea a lot (mostly because it's very straightforward):

"Civ4 is a game where "it depends" applies a lot, there are few general rules one can follow at all times. Having said that, this is a fairly typical way to start:
1. Get worker techs (agriculture, mining, animal husbandry, fishing, hunting, depending on resources available)
2. First build in the capital is a worker. When it's done, he should improve your capital's food.
3. After the initial worker, build a warrior or three, until the capital is size 3-4
4. At this point it's good to build a settler, and maybe another one right after.
5. The warriors you have built, plus the starting scout/warrior, should have explored the area around your capital, so you see what is around it, for future cities. Prime targets are locations with food, and ideally more as well, like luxuries (gold, silver etc) or copper/horses.

Like this, you will have 3 cities by 2000BC, which is a good base.

I'd add a couple of things, just for simplicity.

1. Pick a creative leader and forget about culture completely. Creative/financial (catherine on vanilla) is the best as both traits just take care of themselves. By forgetting about culture you can focus on research which is really where the game is won or lost.
2. Build lots of workers, at least one per city minimum and build them early. You want every tile you are working in every city improved.
3. Adopt slavery and use the whip. If a city is working unworked tiles whip them away. Try to build granaries in your cities asap as this boosts the whipping. Once a city has 4-5 improved tiles and a granary it contributes, until then its just a drain.

Hope this helps
 
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