Russians/Soviets & Catherine

[stormbind]

I think maybe the Soviets would be a better civ than the Russians

----

But in either event, please change Catherine the Great; give us a sexy Russian KGB babe instead!!

 

[Dell19]

I would rather keep it as Russia since it was Russia before and it is again now...

 

[stormbind]

OK, but what about the sexy Russian KGB babe?

 

[Dell19]

Well maybe as a unique unit?

 

[stormbind]

Done deal

 

[Myzenium]

I vaguely remember a portrait of Catherine the Great in my high-school history textbook. If the painting was accurate, then Catherine was as hot as they come.

(Of course, I may be wasting my breath. Portraits before the invention of photography were notoriously flattering.)

 

[stormbind]

So why does Cleopatra look so nice?

 

[mitsho]

Why not give Russia (and all the other civs) two or three or more leaders, that are in power once in the game. So in the ancient age, Catherine is the leader of russia with an expansionist trait (in addition to the civ traits), but in the classic age, Lenin comes to power with his 'militaristic' trait'.

You understand?

mfG mitsho

PS: and in the modern age, the hot babe would be the ruler of Russia...

 

[The Last Conformist]

I somewhy tend to assume that posters who want sexy Leaderheads are sadists.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I somewhy tend to assume that posters who are pleased to see the face of the "...sturdy russian paesantry" or of "...too many places to mention" are mazochists...
thanks god for joan...

 

[Myzenium]

The Last Conformist said:

I somewhy tend to assume that posters who want sexy Leaderheads are sadists.

Oh no, you've figured me out!! (JK)

Why would anyone think that I enjoy inflicting emotional pain on others?

 

[LLXerxes]

Russia has more History.
BUt, Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great may be better than Catherine.
They look better than Catherine, anyways.

 

[Phoenix]

Well when people think of Russia they don't really think of Catherine they think of Stalin or Lenin (or at least I do) therefore the leader should be one of them. Also what about the possiblility of changing your civ name during the game (of course the AI woudn't do this).

 

[Myzenium]

Well when people think of Russia they don't really think of Catherine they think of Stalin or Lenin (or at least I do)

Hush! [whisper]Don't encourage the Russians to go commie again...[/whisper]

Catherine the Attractive, all the way.

 

[Phoenix]

Myzenium - How about Gorby (Gorbachev - speeling!) then?

 

[WS78]

Personally, I associate Lenin/Stalin/Gorbachev with the USSR (Soviets).
Catherine/Peter the Great with Russia.

The comparison between Russian leaders and Soviet is understandable.

 

[Beloyar]

OK, but what about the sexy Russian KGB babe?

Maybe we can put Dell19's avatar as the Russian leaderhead. She looks like the Russian babe from Moonraker (Barbara Bach).

I used to be against Catherine as the leaderhead because she is a German-born heavily russified empress. However, she did a lot for Russia and most Russians loved her at the time. Peter and Ivan would be good because they are authentically Russian. I just wish we could have a choice of leaderheads, male/female, etc.

The thing that keeps bothering me that Firaxis wouldn't change are the Russian great leaders "born in battle." The current list has a lame collection of heroes and criminals:
Ivan the Terrible
Peter the Great
Stalin
Lenin
Trotsky
Zukhov
The last one is the misspelled name of Marshal Zhukov.
Stalin was not a battle hero, but a revolutionary politician. He is neither a national hero nor a Russian; a Georgian dictator who took control of Russia and cleansed it of many native Russians.
Lenin, likewise, never fought in battle, was a cowardly revolutionary who hated his own country, authorized the killing of thousands of Russians, and was of ethnically diverse background.
Trotsky, the Jewish revolutionary from a segregated Jewish village in the Pale was one of the most profound haters of Russia. He headed the Red Army during the Russian revolution until he fell out of favor with dictator Stalin and was exiled. He was assasinated in Mexico. He is not a hero with any Russians today.
Like the other communists in the list, his concern was to destroy everything that was built by Russians before, including Russian nationhood, and create a new communist identity.

I compiled an alternative list that I use in my scenarios:
Alexander Nevsky
Dmitry Donskoi
Peter the Great
Kutuzov
Suvorov
Zhukov
These are true great Russian leaders born in battle.
Nevsky defeated the Teutonic Knights and the Swedes in the 13th century, was beloved by his people and made a saint. Donskoi defeated the Mongols in the 1380 epic Kulikovo Battle. Peter defeated Swedish military genius King Charles XII in the 18th cent. Field Marshal Kutuzov overcame French military genius Napoleon in 1812 and defeated the Ottomans. Field Marshal Suvorov defeated many foreign armies, but most notably liberated northern Italy from the French in 1790s. Suvorov never lost a signle battle. Caught between two tyrants, Stalin and Hitler, Field Marshal Zhukov was under extreme pressure to halt and push back German troops in WW2. He was one of the first to use Blitzkrieg tactics and won the war for the Russians, taking Berlin in 1945.

 

[Myzenium]

Myzenium - How about Gorby (Gorbachev - speeling!) then?

If Civ4 does not grant your tribe a selection of a leaderhead, then I would prefer Catherine as the leader of Russia. However, if Firaxis creates multiple leaderheads to choose for your tribe in Civ4, I suppose a male would be okay.

Civ3 had no leaderheads from the 20th century. It would have been much more controversial if FDR or Ronald Reagan had been America's leaderhead. Historians can easily agree on national heroes of the distant past, for hindsight is seen with perfect clarity, but deciding on heroes of the current generation is debatable. It is difficult to guess what tomorrow brings, or what our actions will produce. If Russia reverts to communism tomorrow, the efforts of Gorbachev (you had the correct spelling) will be proven worthless. Of course, I hope that day will never come, but that's another topic. It would be best that Civ4 have a distant relationship with modern politics.

Maybe we can put Dell19's avatar as the Russian leaderhead. She looks like the Russian babe from Moonraker (Barbara Bach).

Nice one, Beloyar. What do you think, Dell19? Want to volunteer your avatar for the job?

 

[Evie]

No twentieth century leaderhead, except, of course, the rather poor-taste choice of Mao for China you mean.

But yeah, I generally agree. Except for nations which didn't truly reach their peak untill well in the 20th century (read : America, where it would be defensible as a choice), 20th century leaderheads should be avoided like the plague in civ.

And if you must pick a 20th century leader, try to stick away from the highly controversial ones. FDR, Sun Yatsen, Emperor Meiji (well, late 19th, but he reigned until the early 20th anyway), Churchill - yes, all those could do the trick - they aren't particularly controversial, and mostly there is a (mostly) general consensus that their "great work" (overthrowing the Qing, restoring Japan to a place of modernity and power, beating the stuffing out of Hitler without becoming monsters themselves), . Mao, Hirohito, Reagan, Thatcher - their achievments are still debatable, their policies controversial.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

I think that it would be of some interest to ask people if they actually change their leaders name even while retaining the Leaderhead...
Some leader choices struck me from the beginning as strange with some others I could always live with...
When I was playing with the Chinese I was always(in my warmongering games) changing the leader's name to Sun-Tzu,and also Rommel when I was playing the Germans.
At the same time because of my nationality I was struggling to find a more contemporary Greek Leader and I always found myself in an impass...
On the "russian front" I was always thinking of Peter and Nievsky, I just could not stand the idea of me being identified with that awful woman...
I think that identifying yourself or the perceived enemy is and always be a matter of "taste"(in the broader sense possible)...but I'm fond of the Idea of Age-specific leaders since it's always strange to deal with the same opponents for the better part of 4000 years...

And here I compiled a list of alternative leaders(for your pleasure and bashing)

Greece: Diogenes(the one who when asked by Alexander if the latter could do something for him asked him to move a little bit to the left because he was cutting of the sunlight)

Rome:Nero( undisputed musical talent, will make for awsome 3D flames in Civ4)

Germany: Herman Goering: (Politically Incorrect, but he just could not fit in a 2D frame.Now he will have a chance)

Russia:Rasputin(this is a serious choice,he embodied the worst of 3 worlds:Russian palace politics, church, russian paesantry)

Byzantines:Theodora!!! (cannot beat that one:before becoming emperess she was an entertainer, and there is a famous description by Polybious of one of her shows involving a hen, grapes, and her naked body)

England:AEthelred II the Unready(http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon14.html): I think the name is a sufficient argument here...

Franceippin the Short (in French Pépin le Bref; in German Pippin der Kurze):Imagine the empty screen with the tip of the crown emerging from the bottom...

USA:Bill Gates(this post has performed an illegal operation and