S-02 Learning to Ride

[Cosmichail]

Anybody who is a Hartford Whalers fan is ok by me. You gotta to do what you gotta to do. Either way the city will be good. Hey I saw Cyrus wasn't he hiding out on some island. (watch now he shows up in the game)

@Namliam

Yeh that dang Lizzy likes to settle away. Geez I wish you could play too man. You sure sooooo we couldn't do a 7 player roster NamliaM is a hoot to have on board.

EDIT: I love those argumentive Dutchmans.....makes it spicy oh yeh

 

[namliaM]

I am happy just lurking for once... Gives me the opportunity just to shout around stuff and have you guys worry about it

 

[angeleyes]

the city 1sw from the gold should have had 7 hills and enough food to be a giant Heroic Epic city. This city only has 3 hills.

sooooo, i 'was counterjoking' didn't you see the wink? (you changed it into a smilie?)

 

[blid]

I would have done Mike choice if playing with non creative civ, not in this context. Bah, we will just be replacing one prod specialized city with 2 hybrid ones. Now cottaging is allowed

Hatty adopted slavery

I went for IW after agriculture. If you want that rice site, then it better be farmed. Don't want a crappy city for another millenium

Louis got Judaism and converted. He is close to Hatty and has different religion, I guess there will be trouble between those two in near future

Third city went 2W of copper. Has same hills number than 1W of copper and is more fertile (sometimes blue circle is not bad)

We have iron shared between Moscow and St-Pet

Last turn, I chose writing. This is vetoable tough it seems like big time to go the alpahbet road and crank the trade machine. Research don't decay, heh ? HBR is only 3 turns away

Also worker with 0 hammers invested in capital. City already at happy cap, so worker or another settler to grab the clam site seem good options

1200 BC

 

[sooooo]

I finished off HBR, then researched writing and started on Alphabet.

I finished the worker, chopped a settler and started a HA in Moscow. St. Pete finished its barracks, built 1 chariot (I assumed the hammers invested in the chariot would turn into a HA once we researched HBR, but they didn't so we have a chariot instead) and nearly finished a HA. Rice is farmed and connected to rice city. I found another fishes in the west, but it's fairly useless. I think we should settle the clams+spices spot (1E of the spices) because it also has 2 hills. The settler is 1 tile away from that spot now. St Pete and Moscow should be set to HA production. Perhaps consider turning on avoid-growth in Moscow.



Lizzy is connecting up her copper, if we want to attack her it should be soon as we don't want to face too many spearmen:



We should consider declaring a few turns after she's roaded the copper to pillage it, even if we're not ready yet. Moscow should have built another HA instead of the third settler, but it's done now .

 

[sooooo]

Cosmichail is UP! For a bit of pillaging?

Cosmichail - UP
Kikinit - On Deck
mike p
Asperge
blid
sooooo - Just Played

I suggest that when you research alphabet you don't make any trades in you ninth turn and instead post the trade options here in your tenth so we can discuss them.

 

[namliaM]

Lizzy is connecting up her copper, if we want to attack her it should be soon as we don't want to face too many spearmen:

Spearmen are not the favorite unit for the AI cause there "default" strength isnt that high... Only when you come accross with a lot of horses will you find the AI building more spears.... Or at least thats my experience....

I think its OK if you can declare war in enough time that the borders do not pop, or Lizzy founds another city (dont think the AI will do that tho) to block your route to the Bronze...
You can pillage it on turn one of your war...

 

[mike p]

I'd have liked our third city to be Clam City, then finish HBR and take Liz out with a Horse Archer rush while we work on Bronze Working and then Iron Working, but oh well. Horse Archer rush is effective against Archers. Against axemen it's difficult due to defensive bonuses and against spearmen it's a bloody mess. We are going to have only a few windows of military dominance since we're only using a handful of potentially available units. We need to make the next window (Guilds) count. (Unless we want to skip Guilds and go right for Cossacks!)

Asperge, I see what you mean now about St. Pete's being a Heroic Epic powerhouse site if settled where recommended. The copper being where it is helps makes that choice look better too. But (absent the at-the-time-invisible copper) the difference will only be when the city grows past size 6 or 7. I do think it's a waste of a gold tile to be in the fat cross of a production only city though - the gold actually carries a production penalty, and we'd need to build a bunch of buildings to leverage the commerce bonus.

Cosmichail, I'd recommend moving the chariot through the bronze to the woods on the far side of the mountain and on the following turn declaring, taking that worker, and keeping Liz away from the bronze until we wipe her out.

 

[Cosmichail]

Ok "I got it" and pillaging it is. Will play later tonight.

 

[Cosmichail]

Turn 1

St. Pete's finishes HA start another
Settler arrives and settles 1E of spices
Worker start mine on copper

Turn 2

Worker move at Rostov to start mine.
Mine finished at York just roading now
Lizzy has archer right beside Rostov but when we declare will be pushed outside of our borders so not too worried

Turn 3

I was going to whip Moscow because I find when I use turn off growth I forget and it costs in the long run, but we aren't in slavery so decide to revolt. (I am not sure why we aren't in slavery maybe I missed something and am going to hear about it LOL)

Turn 4

Whip Moscow for HA next in 2 turns.
Copper is hooked up so declare war and capture one of Lizzy's workers.
Move chariot/HA to pillage copper.

Turn 5

Pillage copper move new worker towards St. Petes

Turn 6

Archer threatening wheat put HA on it since Archer on forest even though we could take it out with 73% odds I figure it will move towards iron and then I will get it with much better odds.

Turn 7

Moscow builds HA start another
Ha takes out archer at St. Petes 97% odds

Turn 8

St. Petes builds HA start another
Moscow unhappy because of whipping

Turn 9

Lots of HA heading to York to attack. One there and 63% with flank so the others aren't promoted maybe better with combat. Workers start cottage at St Petes. Moscow really unhappy as I pulled the Chariot out to attack scout bumped east of our territory. Now the scout may not be able to do anything but I didn't want to take that chance with him just beside our horses. Once chariot returns we will only have one unhappy. St. Petes has one unhappy too now and Monarchy would be good soon.

Turn 10

Now 3 more HA's arrive at York for a total of 4 with chariot 5. York has 4 Archers and 1 settler.

 

[namliaM]

4 HA vs 4 Archers, not good odds I think... 1 loss/flee and you are stuck there...
I would have a look at London... or that 3rd city due NW of York... Likely there will be less than 4 archers and you could return with
1) More force
2) More promoted force
The settler on the other hand is another free worker

 

[sooooo]

It's really only 2 archers because the other two will be assigned as "settler accompaniment" by the AI. Back off a tile, wait for a few turns and they will leave.

 

[sooooo]

Oh, and Kikinit is up:

Cosmichail - Just Played
Kikinit - UP
mike p - On deck
Asperge
blid
sooooo

 

[blid]

Agree with sooooo. You can even go take the closest city to us north and leave a HA to watch over the copper. Also, I don't think we need to raze any of the cities. York has pigs, silk, spices and copper. The other city has banana, cows and 2 sugars and horses. Next must be London and capitals are always good

Cosmichail, scouts can't pillage or attack but I am not sure if they can deny resources

IMO, we should not whip at capital. It has the potential to build a HA every 4 turns and that's good enough. Next player, switch one citizen to the fish in capital as it is starving and would loose a pop before the chariot gets back

 

[angeleyes]

And one more thing, I noticed that while building the workboat we are working an unimproved cow grassland tile. My thinking is that we're better off working a plains forest to get the workboat out faster - this means more commerce sooner and more food sooner too to catch back up. I haven't run the numbers, but intuitively it seems like a much better strategy when building a workboat to maximize hammers at the expense of food. Am I on the right track here?

My critic (adressed to cosmichail) is meant consctructive and positive. Mike p. wrote this after your first turnset, now looking at clam-city, while making a workboat (which is good), but you're doing it the wrong way again imo. Maximize hammers would have been the right way.


Does anybody has a clear vieuw what is best promotion for our horsearcher's : combat or flanking ? I tend to combat, but the second flanking promotion gives 20% extra withdrawalchances and immune to first strike .

 

[mike p]

Horse archers start with immunity to first strike.

I will usually promote a couple to Flanking 2 and use them as the first wave. Sometimes they even live. But I'd make the majority Combat 1 & 2 with a medic mixed in, and shock if necessary. Not sure if this is optimal, but it works pretty well.

 

[Kikinit]

Hi guys. I'm up and I'll play now. Hopefully those archers will leave the city so we can take it easier.

 

[Kikinit]

(0)-625BC - As per blid's instructions I work the fish instead of the forest to stop Moscow from starving.

(1)-600BC - Alphabet is in. I don't recall any discussion on what to do next so I guess it's up to me as the player... I choose mathematics for the better chops and some other good stuff too. Plus we can use it for trades etc.

The archers left the city as predicted with the settler so York is only protected by 2 archers now.
1st HA attacks at 74% odds and loses.
2nd HA attacks at 71% and wins.
I clean up with the chariot to get him enough XP for a medic promotion. York is taken and kept.
I use the remaining 2 HA's to attack the 2 archers with the settler and win both battles so we get a worker to help with York.

(4)-525BC - The temptation to build axes is ingrained. I have to think about it each time to select HA's.

(5)-500BC - Louis comes asking for Alphabet for free. Not bl**dy likely pal. I refuse and we take a -2 hit in relations with him. I don't want to give him alphabet. He could have requested something else cheaper couldn't he?

I ring him back and do this trade:

Hatty would have done the same but she's leading already so I don't want to put her any further in front.

I took a photo of London here but it hasn't turned out. It's on a hill and had 3 archers with CGI promotions as well as a spearman. It's also got 40% cultural defense. That would be a hard nut to crack. We'd need a lot more HA's than I've got around to take it. Instead I'll take a look around to see what else we can take.

IBT: The spear comes out of the city and attacks our HA's and loses. Poor bugger had 78% odds and lost. Sometimes we can have some luck .

(8)-425BC - Maths in and again as I have to choose I pick Calendar.

Here's a pic of Canterbury. Should be easy enough.

(9)-400BC - I take Canterbury at a canter. I attack with 3 HA's and one withdraws the other 2 win. We get bugger all money from it but I keep it. I hope that's not as I didn't really look around to see whether this city is good or not.

(10)-375BC - Now that the spear is gone from London and she built another galley we may be able to gather ALL of our horse archers together and take a go and London. May be risky but 7 HAs vs. 3 archers may be doable. But we would be leaving ourselves very vulnerable if we loose. Maybe we should go for one of her other cities.

Take a look at the save and voice your opinions and (constructive) criticisms:

 

[SpriteSODA]

good turns! I advise you guys to take London.

 

[blid]

Good job Kikinit killing archers inside and outside York and with the trades. Not giving alphabet yet since there's nothing worth it is good and also denying Louis alphabet is good decision

Now to the (construtive) criticisms part , why bother with Canterburry which is a damn long shot from our kingdom where there are 2 cities in the north close ? Those I would have kept, not Canterburry (no special resources)
We have no choice but to take London or Canterburry would be a useless economic sink

Also, I rarely research calendar because all AI are fond of this tech. I would have gone on the upper branches for lit or drama but this is no biggie