Safe spaces for everyone?

aelf

aelf

Ashen One
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Left-liberals have always been derided for wanting safe spaces, but what about moderates and the right?

Right-wingers champion freedom of speech and are anti-PC culture, but when their views are criticised, they often raise a stink and are quick to accuse critics of trying to shut down discussion. Moderates claim that they champion rational and civil debate, but when called out for their patronising stance on speech and public discourse, they may resort to the mockery and insults that they said they reject.

So it kinda looks like everyone needs their own safe spaces. Do you think every side deserve safe spaces? Are safe spaces inherently wrong? Or is your safe space better than my safe space? What are the implications of having everyone safely cocooned within their own ideological bubbles, whether in the name of civil discourse or to save people from tears?

Please discuss.
 
aelf said:
What are the implications of having everyone safely cocooned within their own ideological bubbles, whether in the name of civil discourse or to save people from tears.
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(1) Groupthink becomes common with a spurious concensus within that group.

(2) Believing in nonsense due to the requirement for showing loyalty to the bubble is almost mandatory in each bubble.

(3) The bubble inhabitants steadily lose their ability to hold an open mind and engage in critical thinking.

(4) Individuals are given a choice only between secular religions all of which are wrong.

(5) The bubbles eventually collide and there is an explosion.
 
aelf said:
Left-liberals have always been derided for wanting safe spaces, but what about moderates and the right?

Right-wingers champion freedom of speech and are anti-PC culture, but when their views are criticised, they often raise a stink and are quick to accuse critics of trying to shut down discussion. Moderates claim that they champion rational and civil debate, but when called out for their patronising stance on speech and public discourse, they may resort to the mockery and insults that they said they reject.

So it kinda looks like everyone needs their own safe spaces. Do you think every side deserve safe spaces? Are safe spaces inherently wrong? Or is your safe space better than my safe space? What are the implications of having everyone safely cocooned within their own ideological bubbles, whether in the name of civil discourse or to save people from tears?

Please discuss.
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Safe space? As long as you are not killed for you views & can express them, there is no need for "safe spaces". I think there may be a problem with teachers/newspapers/media that are trying to lecture/indoctrinate their students/readers.

On the other hand side if the views of various ideologies/religions become just too incompatible, there is maybe need to form an own state/society. The question is perhaps, to what point different ideologies are still compatible.
 
Right-wingers are, in fact, creating 'safe spaces' on college campuses, in Facebook groups, and so on. For my part I see the need for safe spaces in some contexts but I do feel the concept is being taken too far (one article I read recently claimed that students at various colleges are now demanding racial segregation as a form of "safe space" which I find utterly ridiculous). I'm not exactly sure where the boundary resides between acceptable safe space and "taken too far" or how to theorize it, though.
 
I think most people feel best in an "ideological safe space", a place where their ideas are not challenged. That's obvious, given that that's how human egos work.

There is however a difference between people who think it's a necessity to have such spaces because they think their peers cannot possibly function if they have their beliefs challenged (mostly found in the progressive, not liberal, parts of the left), people who enjoy being in a safe space more than they enjoy the search for truth (That probably describes the largest part of the right, but those people exist on every part of the political spectrum), and then there are people who generally favor the open exchange of ideas, but sometimes take a holiday in their own ideological bubble.

Overall, I do not think the existence of safe spaces is a problem itself, it only becomes a problem when groups call for public places to become safe spaces, or when people spend so much time in their safe spaces that public discourse becomes impossible.
 
EnglishEdward said:
Individuals are given a choice only between secular religions all of which are wrong.
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Define "secular religion."

A religion is a religion, unless it's a cult. I guess you could say Trumpism is a cult by now that might as well be called secular since no particular religious beliefs are required in order to become a believer. All that's needed is an incredibly narrow-minded anti-science view that does nothing to encourage its followers to have any empathy for anyone who makes less than a billion dollars a year.


We used to have a kind of safe space on this forum. They were called "social groups", but were annihilated when the forum migrated from vBulletin to XenForo.
 
Valessa said:
I think most people feel best in an "ideological safe space", a place where their ideas are not challenged.
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Uhh no. Most normal people feel perfectly fine in a place where differing viewpoints exist and are shared.

People with psychological problems are the sort of people who need to hide from differing viewpoints.
 
warpus said:
Uhh no. Most normal people feel perfectly fine in a place where differing viewpoints exist and are shared.
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...which does not contradict what I said in any way...
 
I think everyone should be woken up at 3AM by a loudspeaker that spouts the slogans of their political opponents.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
Define "secular religion."
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I'd prefer not to turn this thread into an argument of definitions.

A religion is a religion, unless it's a cult. I guess you could say Trumpism is a cult by now that might as well be called secular since no particular religious beliefs are required in order to become a believer.
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Correct. As is communism, ever closer unionism etc.
 
EnglishEdward said:
I'd prefer not to turn this thread into an argument of definitions.
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I don't want to argue about it. I just want to know what you mean by that term. It seems like a nonsense phrase to me.

If you mean "cult" just say so. If you mean ideology, just say so. Otherwise, you're just muddying things up.
 
Valessa said:
...which does not contradict what I said in any way...
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You said that "most people feel the best in a place where their ideas aren't challenged"

I dispute this. Only people who have psychological problems of some kind need that sort of space to feel the best. Most normal people function best in a normal environment where all sorts of ideas exist.
 
I wonder when 'reality' got to be an episode of early 2000s The Simpsons.


Triggered, safe spaces, kneejerkism, impossible division, almost comedic antagonism. Only that is just the top layer, and below there are issues like poverty, violence, ruined lives, nepotism, idiocy, cruelness. Unfortunately those take more than the average youtube or web or newspaper cretin to present, so what is shown is the base and wag-the-doglike stuff.
 
warpus said:
You said that "most people feel the best in a place where their ideas aren't challenged"

I dispute this. Only people who have psychological problems of some kind need that sort of space to feel the best. Most normal people function best in a normal environment where all sorts of ideas exist.
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Well, you're again making an argument that doesn't even address my point. "Feeling best" in an environment doesn't mean that you can't feel "good" in other environment. "Feeling best" doesn't mean that you "function" best in such an environment.

As such, I actually agree very much with what you're saying, I would say most people who do not have mental problems enjoy being challenged and learning. To different extends depending on the person, but everybody does to some extend. Of course that does still not change that at the end of the day, everybody enjoys going back to their own little space where they rest and refuel. Most people would not enjoy being out on the marketplace of ideas all the time.
 
Valessa said:
Of course that does still not change that at the end of the day, everybody enjoys going back to their own little space where they rest and refuel.
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Sure, but if that refuelling space includes a lack of contradictory ideas by design, then there's probably psychological issues there that should be addressed with the help of a professional
 
I assume that you're using the word more literal than I am, because that doesn't seem to make sense the way I use it. When I'm at home, lying in my bathtub, enjoying a nice, relaxing hot bath for half an hour, then that's me being in "safe space", independent from the fact that here on my pc I might have been in a ton of discussions with people who disagree with me ideologically.
 
warpus said:
Sure, but if that refuelling space includes a lack of contradictory ideas by design, then there's probably psychological issues there that should be addressed with the help of a professional
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Imagine being so privileged you think safe spaces are simply a matter of shielding yourself from ideas you disagree with
 
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