Samurai should not retreat!

[superunknown]

Am I the only one to think that the Samurai should´nt retreat from battle? I mean, that goes to the very core of Bushido.
To retreat was not an option for the Samurai, because it meant such a disgrace that Seppuku would have been expected of him.
Either you fight to the death, or you win the battle.

Does anyone have an opinion on this matter?
I guess the lot of you dont think this is of great importance, but I think it´s interesting.

 

[sgrig]

Ha! Never thought about this! You must be the first civver to notice this! The only way I see which could rectify this, is giving Samurai 1 movement point instead of 2, but give it an all as road ability. This however would make this unit very powerful, but would give the disadvantage of not able to retreat.

 

[superunknown]

The way I see it, the only reason why he has a movement of two is he is not wearing any armor, thus being able to move faster. On the other hand, the Samurai always used armor on the battlefield, but not elsewhere.
I agree on the all as road, thats a good idea. Very powerful feature, but without the retreat thing, its quite reasonable.

Can´t wait to get hold of PTW, so I can start making Feudal Japan scens, with both armored and unarmored Samurai. And no retreat from battle!

 

[superunknown]

Oh, thats ARMOUR, not ARMOR. A bit difficult to wear armor I suppose.

 

[superunknown]

Wait a minute. When I think about it, isn´t armour and armor the same thing? Just different spelling. Hm.. me confused.

 

[CurtSibling]

Depends if you want to spell and speak like our American cousins,
or the proper English as spoken the way it was meant to be...

Anyway...

It is not unknown for Samurai to retreat the field.
During the campaigns of Takeda Shingen,
there were many examples of Samurai running in disgrace or failing to turn up for a battle!!!

A code of honour is one thing, an actual human is another...

Anyway, wouldn't you rather have that Samurai unit come back and exact revenge when his health has returned?

Revenge of the Ronin!!!!

 

[Drakken]

Off topic: I like Armor or is it Armour hot dogs.

On topic: I agree they shouldn't be allowed to retreat.

It never bothered me though, as the battle system is so simplistic anyway. So many units have major flaws. Ironclads should sink in anything but coastal waters. And in my mod they do! I will have to change the samurai now too. thanks!

 

[superunknown]

Of course there where Samurai retreating on occasion, thats not my point. What I mean is that they are not supposed to, cos if they do then its time for Seppuku.
But anyway, in this case I think its the code of honour that counts. So therefore, no retreat.
As for the coming back for revenge, I don´t think thats enough to restore the lost honour. Maybe if he executed the revenge, and then took his own life...(God I love the Samurai).

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Drakken
Ironclads should sink in anything but coastal waters. And in my mod they do! I will have to change the samurai now too. thanks!

Should they, why?

 

[Chieftess]

Well, to get this topic back on topic...

I've thought about that too. Samurai shouldn't even HAVE the retreat option. Besides, Samurais didn't do a lot of swordplay either...

 

[Silverflame]

Originally posted by Yoda Power


Should they, why?

Becuase the first successful ironclad, the Monitor, is what the ironclads in this game are based on. The Monitor was so unseaworthy that it it had enough trouble staying afloat in the coastal waters. It even had to be towed. And when that major confederate port was being destroyed, the boat that was towing of the Monitor was busy and let go for a minute, and suddenly the Monitor sank. Or something like that.

Anyway, yeah, samurai should be able to treat all terrain as roads and without a retreat.

 

[RobOz]

In the movie TMNT III, the samurai were running like crazy!

 

[Cantankerous]

The Samurai unit in Civ 3 is a fudge to give Japan a UU that is available instead of knights, yet still comparable to horse-based units.

And anyway, why must a Samurai unit behave differently than any other fast unit? Just because in the history of real-life Japan they acted that way?

Isn't Civilization III a game about re-writing history?

Well if I'm playing Japan, can't I rewrite the Japanese codes of battle and tell my Samurai to act differently? "To retreat is to live to fight another day" is what I'd tell them.

Playing a particular civ in the game means you get a UU that simulates a unit that civ had in its history. But you don't have to use that UU in the same manner that the historical (real-life) civ used it, nor do you have to act like the real-life civ in order to play the game.

Samurai are fine the way they are.

(Sorry if this post comes across as condescending. It's not intended to be that way. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.)

 

[JonathanValjean]

I agree with you, Superunknown; the samurai should not be able to retreat. Like you, I really appreciate historical accuracy in the game, and to retreat would have been completely dishonorable to the samurai. I appreciate your comments, too, cantankerous. It's always nice to see an opposing view expressed.

 

[HotDog Fish]

I agree that samurai should get all terrain as roads and only one move, but then again I'd actually like units that require horses to RIDE on them, I know the unit is supposed to represent that it does but hey! Firaxis added little guys pushing your artillery units now so why not give the Samurai a horse to ride on!?

 

[Yzman]

Samuri do not require horses in the game.

 

[HotDog Fish]

They don't? Woah! Where have I been? I need to play as them more!

 

[superunknown]

Originally posted by RobOz
In the movie TMNT III, the samurai were running like crazy!

Well, RobOz, I wouldn´t form my opinion based on a movie about turtles, but then I believe that was your little joke.

 

[Reboot]

Of course the Samurai should be allowed to retreat like any other unit - to retreat in the face of great opposition to fight another day is hardly dishonourable.

Besides, retreat is in itself a strategy that can be employed to draw the enemy deeper; or to lull the enemy to a false sense of superiority; or to distract the enemy's forces from a vulnerable target, etc.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by Silverflame


Becuase the first successful ironclad, the Monitor, is what the ironclads in this game are based on. The Monitor was so unseaworthy that it it had enough trouble staying afloat in the coastal waters. It even had to be towed. And when that major confederate port was being destroyed, the boat that was towing of the Monitor was busy and let go for a minute, and suddenly the Monitor sank. Or something like that.

Anyway, yeah, samurai should be able to treat all terrain as roads and without a retreat.

Just because it uses the graphic that looks like first ironclad, does not mean that all ironclads should behave just like this one. Remember this class of ship is supposed to represent all ironclads from the first one to the last one. (Your argument sounds alot like a professor of mine in my groups reactor presentation who attempted to make conclusions on the size of our reactor based on little icon representing which of the three reactors we were talking about that was in the lower right hand corner of the slide).