Sanotra's West Indies [Map]

[Sanotra]

[Map 88x58] West Indies, Download Here.

West Indies (Caribbean) is a map which contains the tip of Florida, down to Honduras and Nicaragua, and over to the island of Barbados. Basically the whole of the Caribbean pirate world! Will you, like Jack Sparrow, just cause trouble for the other European nations, or will you build a mighty nation across the beautiful islands? Either way, a powerful navy is essential to your survival! Unless of course you hang out in South America.

Spoiler :

There appears to be a big problem with Europe plot placement on my maps. I worked meticulously to make sure that all of my Europe plots were Europe East plots. However the game appears to convert some of my plots to Europe West plots, thus ruining some of the game flavor, and also removing the find the Pacific TAC event from practical play. Working on, and looking for a solution to this. I will fix as soon as possible!

Feedback is appreciated!

 

[Sanotra]

I'm looking forward to some feed back from those of you who downloaded the map already.

I could also use some help with fixing the sail to Europe problem.

 

[Isabelxxx]

[Map 88x58] West Indies, Download Here.

West Indies (Caribbean) is a map which contains the tip of Florida, down to Honduras and Nicaragua, and over to the island of Barbados. Basically the whole of the Caribbean pirate world! Will you, like Jack Sparrow, just cause trouble for the other European nations, or will you build a mighty nation across the beautiful islands? Either way, a powerful navy is essential to your survival! Unless of course you hang out in South America.

Spoiler :

There appears to be a big problem with Europe plot placement on my maps. I worked meticulously to make sure that all of my Europe plots were Europe East plots. However the game appears to convert some of my plots to Europe West plots, thus ruining some of the game flavor, and also removing the find the Pacific TAC event from practical play. Working on, and looking for a solution to this. I will fix as soon as possible!

Feedback is appreciated!

East plots not allowed for that X Y position?

Have you checked the change in Europe Plots opening the WBsavegame with a text editor? Try searching for West Plots and count them, is that number equal to the # of West plots you added?

There are 3 possibilities:

1) Worlbuilder changes your plots while saving the map.
2) Worlbuilder is placing East plots instead of West plots.
3) The game changes those plots when loading the map.

I think there should be something in the phyton files. Let me check them, maybe I could see your problem.

 

[Sanotra]

East plots not allowed for that X Y position?
There are 3 possibilities:

1) Worlbuilder changes your plots while saving the map.
2) Worlbuilder is placing East plots instead of West plots.
3) The game changes those plots when loading the map.

I think it is likely problem number 2. In fact, that makes perfect sense. I went over all the tiles with Europe East (Atlantic), and as soon as I exited WB they were West (Pacific) plots. So two must be it. How can we fix that?

 

[raystuttgart]

@Sanotra:

I have checked your maps (Colonial America and West Indies).

There are EUROPE_EAST and EUROPE_WEST plots in both of them.
Why do you believe they are replaced ?

I have created adjusted version of your maps for Religion and Revolution and uploaded them to our SVN.
I had no problems with creating / adjusting EUROPE_EAST and EUROPE_WEST at all.

Comments:

Try to not completely leave out a terrain like "Plains" in your maps.
Otherwise productionlines will not exist in the game and this will lower fun for most players.

Try to also put TerrainFeature "Light Forrest" and not only "Forrest" and "Jungle".

Try to keep your "Sail-To-Europe"-areas as filled areas and not as thin line around some ocean plots.
Otherwise you might get strange AI behaviour.

Better not put Forrests on Peaks.

Generally you really did a nice job creating realistic maps.

 

[Sanotra]

There are EUROPE_EAST and EUROPE_WEST plots in both of them.
Why do you believe they are replaced ?

I had no problems with creating / adjusting EUROPE_EAST and EUROPE_WEST at all.

On both maps 95% of the Europe plots were placed as Europe East (Atlantic). The 5% being Pacific plots, were only to be found on the other side of Panama or Central America. When I load the maps, there are Pacific plots where I exclusively placed Atlantic plots.

I have created adjusted version of your maps for Religion and Revolution and uploaded them to our SVN.

Maybe you should not have added the R&R features until the maps were completely satisfactory, terrain is good and everything. You suggested a few things, we can still amend those problems, and re upload.


-----

Try to not completely leave out a terrain like "Plains" in your maps.
Otherwise productionlines will not exist in the game and this will lower fun for most players.

In Colonial America, cotton can only be grown in Georgia and the surrounding states. Which is historical. For gameplay, I did place Plains all over the map. I did so discretely though. The placement is not as obvious to the eye as Georgia, which may be why you missed them. I don't recall placing Plains in West Indies. Is there any historical cotton planting in the Caribbean? Where do you suggest I place Plains?

Try to also put TerrainFeature "Light Forrest" and not only "Forrest" and "Jungle".

Is Light (Deciduous) Forest found in the Caribbean? I think the whole Equatorian climate is tropical and should be Jungle. The only difference this makes on gameplay, is a small subtraction of wood value per Jungle plot, as compared to a Forest. In Colonial America, Light Forest is all the way down the North American coast.

Try to keep your "Sail-To-Europe"-areas as filled areas and not as thin line around some ocean plots.
Otherwise you might get strange AI behaviour.

Ok. What kind of strange AI behavior though?

Better not put Forrests on Peaks.

Causes game problems?

Generally you really did a nice job creating realistic maps.

Thanks!

 

[raystuttgart]

Maybe you should not have added the R&R features until the maps were completely satisfactory, terrain is good and everything. You suggested a few things, we can still amend those problems, and re upload.

Don't worry, I already corrected these aspects for the R&R-versions.

I don't recall placing Plains in West Indies. Is there any historical cotton planting in the Caribbean? Where do you suggest I place Plains?

I am not talking about geographical correctness.
Simply about gameplay.

Creating a map for West Indies without Plains might be correct considering geography, but this will probably lead to only very few players really playing that map, because they will simply miss complete productionlines.

Experience has shown, that maps with not all terrains are much less popular than others.

It is your choice however.

Ok. What kind of strange AI behavior though?

With exploration or Privateers for example.
Also it looks quite strange.

Causes game problems?

Not really, but it might cause very strange placement of bonusses for example.
Also AI might use these places for producing Lumber instead of Iron Ore.

 

[Sanotra]

I am not talking about geographical correctness.
Simply about gameplay.

It's all about gameplay I suppose. I'm bound by that standard. I plan on doing some overhauls on the terrain in the maps. So be on the look out for some changes. You didnt answer my question concerning which mod you had loaded when placing Europe tiles, I'm assuming R&R. I was using TAC and it misplaces my Europe plots.

 

[raystuttgart]

It's all about gameplay I suppose. I'm bound by that standard.

It is your choice.

But if I personally had to choose between aspects like historical or geographical correctness on the one side and gameplay on the other side,
I would always go for gameplay.

So be on the look out for some changes.

Simply create your final versions for TAC and vanilla.
After that I can create Religion and Revolution versions from that.

You didnt answer my question concerning which mod you had loaded when placing Europe tiles, I'm assuming R&R. I was using TAC and it misplaces my Europe plots.

Religion and Revolution, of course.
(Why should I load the maps in any other mod ?)

 

[Sanotra]

Right on. Things move on a pace then.

---

Religion and Revolution, of course.
(Why should I load the maps in any other mod ?)

To test out the cause of my World Builder problem of course. The problem is simple. Although R&R currently has versions of my map with no Europe plot troubles. TAC and Vanilla players still suffer from misplaced Europe plots. I'm still looking for a solution to this problem.

 

[raystuttgart]

To test out the cause of my World Builder problem of course. The problem is simple. Although R&R currently has versions of my map with no Europe plot troubles. TAC and Vanilla players still suffer from misplaced Europe plots. I'm still looking for a solution to this problem.

There is no difference considering Europe Travel Plots between TAC and R&R.
(Trust me, I am 100% sure about that.)

I have created many maps with TAC myself and I have never experienced problems with Europe Travel Plots.

Today I have recreated all Europe Travel Plots in the R&R variants of your maps, to be sure that everything is as I wanted
and everything worked perfectly.

Really don't know what the problem is.

 

[Sanotra]

I'll figure it out.

 

[Isabelxxx]

Did you found the problem?

 

[Sanotra]

Unfortunately no. If someone else is able to edit the map without this problem, perhaps I could have you send it to me, and I'll upload it.

This will be after I upload the second to final release of the West Indies map. Colonial America is ready.

 

[Isabelxxx]

The map is loading perfectly in my game:

These are the plots with Europe_west:

### Plot Info ###
BeginPlot
x=0,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=0,y=1
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=0,y=2
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=0,y=3
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=0,y=4
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=1,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=1,y=1
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=1,y=2
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=2,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot
BeginPlot
x=2,y=1
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=3,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=4,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=19,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
TeamReveal=0,
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=20,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

[...]

BeginPlot
x=21,y=0
EuropeType=EUROPE_WEST
TerrainType=TERRAIN_OCEAN
PlotType=3
EndPlot

Notice that there is not any plot over y=5. Tested in game.

 

[Isabelxxx]

Let me try other thing, I will open the map in worldbuilder and then save it with my mod. Finally delete all needed things to be exactly like yours.

Wait a few minutes.

 

[Sanotra]

The problem is not that Europe_East plots are placed where West plots should be, but vice versa. There are West plots where East plots should be.

 

[Isabelxxx]

Here it is... not sure how that can change anything but try it.

Other possibility could be that West and East plots can not be at the same X position (?)
Check that at the bottom of the map there is a small region with 3 West plots.
There are East plots at the same X position and that Y axis.

EDIT: I listed you ALL the west plots, they are were they should be and there are no more West plots. Logic tells me that no East plot can be replaced if the anterior conditions are met.

 

[Isabelxxx]

Did you enabled debug mode? (it allows you to see the plot type)
How do you know the plots are replaced in game?

I mean that I have fully tested that your maps works as intended and there are no problems with Europe plots... maybe it's the TAC event which is bugged (?) and that's why it is activated even when they are east plots.