Science Victory Strategy (and boasting!) Compendium ツ

[Bad_Viceroy]

To have 15 cities by turn 70 or so, how small do you keep your capital? I'm playing on Monty on Prince, around turn 70, the AI only has 2 cities. I conquered 2 AIs and 1 CS, captured 1 settler, pumped out 2 settlers, for a total of 9 cities by turn 70. Teddy and Bapu were already screaming at me for my warmongering. Seems like I need to add a couple more AIs for city conquering, or keep my capital at pop 3/4 for a while.

Possibly you are too fast for Prince

 

[yung.carl.jung]

To have 15 cities by turn 70 or so, how small do you keep your capital? I'm playing on Monty on Prince, around turn 70, the AI only has 2 cities. I conquered 2 AIs and 1 CS, captured 1 settler, pumped out 2 settlers, for a total of 9 cities by turn 70. Teddy and Bapu were already screaming at me for my warmongering. Seems like I need to add a couple more AIs for city conquering, or keep my capital at pop 3/4 for a while.

I keep it really small because I am constantly pumping Settlers. Pop 3/4 feels okay, but not great. Players better than me manage a higher population cap while still warmongering-

The three most important things I think are: Being an effective warmonger. The better you are at the game, the more you can achieve with limited ressources, the less units you lose, the more you can invest in economy. Building farms early. People neglect farms over production, which often is the right choice but not always. Your city should always be growing hard, be it through good tiles or farms or caravans. Last, better players get better timing on Feudalism. Mine still sucks, comes 5-10 turns too late. Feudalism is when growth gets accelerated by a ton, it's one of the most important milestones.

This is a question I also struggle with. It sounds like you have already been on quite the rampage. It must be combination of settler building til say 100 and luck with close CS to conquer or close neighbours, I guess. It feels really late though to still be building settlers and not campus etc I think in your cap

I would not build settlers past t80 unless its a very good spot. Capturing yes, but not building. You need so much infrastructure in place before you spam city projects at around t110 or something that you simply cannot afford settlers after t80, even if the cities pay off heavily in the lategame. However, this only applies if you are aiming to get a sub t200 victory.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

I keep it really small because I am constantly pumping Settlers. Pop 3/4 feels okay, but not great. Players better than me manage a higher population cap while still warmongering-

The three most important things I think are: Being an effective warmonger. The better you are at the game, the more you can achieve with limited ressources, the less units you lose, the more you can invest in economy. Building farms early. People neglect farms over production, which often is the right choice but not always. Your city should always be growing hard, be it through good tiles or farms or caravans. Last, better players get better timing on Feudalism. Mine still sucks, comes 5-10 turns too late. Feudalism is when growth gets accelerated by a ton, it's one of the most important milestones.



I would not build settlers past t80 unless its a very good spot. Capturing yes, but not building. You need so much infrastructure in place before you spam city projects at around t110 or something that you simply cannot afford settlers after t80, even if the cities pay off heavily in the lategame. However, this only applies if you are aiming to get a sub t200 victory.

I have been taking the deliberate decision not to use builder charges on farms. I think I need to revisit this in the light of specific circumstances. I must say that with settler cost scaling up I am really noticing my cap taking longer and longer to get settlers out without an IZ or higher pop than 3/4. My warmongering is too slow but I think improving. For a sub-200 time by when would you expect to have education and unis up in core cities? One major issue I have is having to to chase niter/musketmen before edu because of cavalry or because crossbowman are no longer reducing walls fast enough and I need to get to field cannon.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

In that case I would say you are probably too slow on culture. Usually Cavalry, Cannons and Muskets are highly unnecessary for me, because as soon as I get corps my opponents cannot do anything anymore.

That means I do not have to invest any research into military technologies (I still get Niter after Edu for the hammers..) and can focus on science. Getting Monuments as my 1st/2nd build in all cities really helped me with my culture generation, as does better Inspiration micromanagement.

I think universities go up somewhere around t85 to t110 for me, but then again some people have their infrastructure down at t80 and start city projects that early..

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Thank you for your replies. I think you are right about culture to an extent as I haven't been building theatre squares, although monuments are normally first build on an expo or capture so it's not terminal. My last game, with China on Emperor, aiming to beat SV on turn 256, I had the spaceport built on 199 but couldn't complete projects until... turn 256. Bottleneck was production i.e. waiting for relevant Great Scientists, I had too little gold and too few campi generating the points. If I stop building them by 120 let alone 80 then I won't have even 8 let alone 15-20. A few specific questions:
Do you build settlers in more than one city?
Do you chop districts in later expos or save it all for projects?
I tend to chop around cap only for spaceport, is this viable?
What is the lowest number of cities a sub200 finish had been achieved with as far as the thread knows?

 

[stinkubus]

Not quite sub 200, but I had a T206 finish once with only 12 cities (Trajan, emperor). Divine Spark was my pantheon, so that helped with the great people. Settlers can be built in more than one city, but with the increase in costs from the last patch only cities with strong production get them out fast enough. A decent amount of conquest will be required. Late expos probably only get a campus with gold rushed buildings, so it's viable to chop the campus and still have some stuff left over for the Campus Projects phase.

If I'm using my cap as the spaceport city then I only leave one or two chops to get the last parts finished after I activate Sagan. If you can get all the traders there on time then simply letting the city build the spaceport doesn't really slow me down, but I don't get these crazy T150 finishes that some of the other players can, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[Victoria]

how small do you keep your capital?

That depends on the capabilities of the capital. If it has great hills you do need to start growing it at some stage especially if it's not going to have great zim to boost the population. Certainly having any city larger than needed is a waste.

I haven't been building theatre squares

Good!....smallest I know of was 16 under T200. Chop when it makes sense early, for example you want the double ship card for a very short time in a slot, bang it in and chop the first boat into the second. Saving some chops for universities/space is important.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Not quite sub 200, but I had a T206 finish once with only 12 cities (Trajan, emperor). Divine Spark was my pantheon, so that helped with the great people. Settlers can be built in more than one city, but with the increase in costs from the last patch only cities with strong production get them out fast enough. A decent amount of conquest will be required. Late expos probably only get a campus with gold rushed buildings, so it's viable to chop the campus and still have some stuff left over for the Campus Projects phase.

If I'm using my cap as the spaceport city then I only leave one or two chops to get the last parts finished after I activate Sagan. If you can get all the traders there on time then simply letting the city build the spaceport doesn't really slow me down, but I don't get these crazy T150 finishes that some of the other players can, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

206 seems close enough! I think I will have to start pumping settlers out with two cities as soon as I get the card online. Also, I will try making my first district a CH rather than a CD. I lack gold and often only end up with 7-9 trade routes even with Merchant republic. This hurts in terms of space production and inability to rush buy buildings, upgrades and recruit scientists. Maybe it's the damn gold...

That depends on the capabilities of the capital. If it has great hills you do need to start growing it at some stage especially if it's not going to have great zim to boost the population. Certainly having any city larger than needed is a waste.


Good!....smallest I know of was 16 under T200. Chop when it makes sense early, for example you want the double ship card for a very short time in a slot, bang it in and chop the first boat into the second. Saving some chops for universities/space is important.

Thanks for this, will pay more attention to choosing best possible spaceport city

 

[Victoria]

I lack gold and often only end up with 7-9 trade routes even with Merchant republic

You are talking fast victory... excess gold is wasteful initially...but later for science, sure. Feeling the pinch a bit is OK as long as you get by. A couple of key things on gold and CH
Build 3 early for the trade route eureka and 2 markets for that eureka and the gold does help. Leave the rest until you have your campuses down. You should not be growing cities for more districts but any that can fit a CH after campus, its the best choice.
The main source of gold early is from conflict.... for example smash Tomyris but do not take her out if there is a nearby civ to attack, instead take all he gold off her and then come back later to finish her off... pillage every district you can, the raid card is great for this.. Gilga is a good example for science... he loves science and grows fast, you do not really want to take him out... just every now and then pillage his lands, 50 science per zig with the raid card, 100 gold per horse.
Another source often forgotten is trade, if someone denounces you they will give you ad deals but otherwise the deals will be good so take them as soon as possible, as much as possible.... even allowing your cities to get a little unhappy for gold is OK in my book... -5% in 4 cities may seem a lot but normally its not that bad.
A key one some people use is to place a farm in a breathtaking square in a city. Every city has a farm. Then when 50 gold per appeal point card comes up for swapping farms with neighbourhoods, blow the farm away with a neighbourhood and you get the money immediately, no need to finish building the useless thing. Others use it, why don't you?.... look at lily_lancers finishes in GOTM, every city has a neighbourhood being built.
7-9 routes at the end is OK as long as you have great zim... but ideally the more the merrier for the endgame.

I suffer more from lack of culture at he beginning and am amazed how much some players can get.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Great advice, thank you. I've never built Great Zim! Nor have I farmed civs for yields/peace deals in that way. I will start. The neighbourhood thing sounds fun for the very end game.

 

[Victoria]

The neighbourhood thing sounds fun for the very end game.

Gives you a reason to build the Eiffel tower, and those civs with improvements that increase appeal are more appealing.

I've never built Great Zim!

Wow, a pretty OP wonder... you should try... just do not worry about the cows being near the river or placing the CH on a river... the idea is to get great zim not a lousy +2 gold. Its the one victory that truly benefits from Great Zim, especially if you build it in your spaceport city.

An ideal science game is an off continent great zim space city (you get +35% gold in off continent cities) You can get 20-30 gold per trade route as well as the other bits including production.

Nor have I farmed civs for yields

Those Yields ar the key thing, really nice boosts, especially early when you are earning 4 culture per turn getting +25 is rather nice.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Gives you a reason to build the Eiffel tower, and those civs with improvements that increase appeal are more appealing.


Wow, a pretty OP wonder... you should try... just do not worry about the cows being near the river or placing the CH on a river... the idea is to get great zim not a lousy +2 gold. Its the one victory that truly benefits from Great Zim, especially if you build it in your spaceport city.

An ideal science game is an off continent great zim space city (you get +35% gold in off continent cities) You can get 20-30 gold per trade route as well as the other bits including production.


Those Yields ar the key thing, really nice boosts, especially early when you are earning 4 culture per turn getting +25 is rather nice.

Yes, I can see that, just started using raid but for instaheals on farmland round enemy cities, will branch out! Time to work from home again I think

 

[Victoria]

Time to work from home again

I perma work from home, even better, my boss says if I have nothing to do, do nothing.... sadly I see this ending soon.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Ach, frustrating! I am really struggling to beat 256. Cannot seem to ramp up fast enough. Can't get the spaceport built before 199. Can't get Sagan to line up with the last few parts. Can't seem to get more than 12 cities up before 100, don't have my districts down in time to start projects in most cities by 110-120. Aggghhh!!!!!!

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Having said that, I just did 237 with Nubia (Emperor, balanced starting positions). Great to finally improve! Short wars are better than long wars, I finally realise. First time I've had Sagan come before Kwolek. Only had 12 cities. Built no wonders.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Question: if you chop, complete something, and then add something new to your empty queue, does any left over production from the chop get added? I thought it did due to the visual indicator but now I wonder if that is just city overflow or something.

 

[Victoria]

does any left over production from the chop get added? I

Yes, chopping overflow is a great benefit.

So if a chop gave you 80 production and you were Harald with the 100% navy card and now an extra 50% for being Harland.....

You place a ship in the queue for 65 production and chop. The chop gives you 80 +120 =200 production.
Your ship is finished straight away and you have an extra 135 production toward whatever you then put in your build queue that turn.

 

[Bad_Viceroy]

Yes, chopping overflow is a great benefit.

So if a chop gave you 80 production and you were Harald with the 100% navy card and now an extra 50% for being Harland.....

You place a ship in the queue for 65 production and chop. The chop gives you 80 +120 =200 production.
Your ship is finished straight away and you have an extra 135 production toward whatever you then put in your build queue that turn.

Great example! Thank you

 

[antimony]

With the monarchy bonus to buildings walls and the Limes policy card, you can also get pretty good overflow multiplication. Even if that government is a bit out of the main culture path.

 

[Victoria]

With the monarchy bonus to buildings walls

Yes anyone can get that one... just one overflow per city and if you do not normally build walls they feel a bit wasted.