Cabal
Chieftain
Culloden? Oh, ouch! 
Will the Scots get a penalty if they fight the English there? 
Will the Scots get a penalty if they fight the English there? 
Scottish civ.. Any interest?
- Thread starter Shockwave
- Start date
Hmmmmmz..... Civ editing is nowhere near as easy in C3 than it was in C2 (can tell I'm having problems)
I'll likely just stick with replacing the English right now, then once figure out what to do I can add them as a new civ
And one more 'city' to get added.... My home town - Kirkcaldy (also the birth place of Adam Smith)
I'll likely just stick with replacing the English right now, then once figure out what to do I can add them as a new civ
And one more 'city' to get added.... My home town - Kirkcaldy (also the birth place of Adam Smith)
Sixchan
Emperor
Wow, I'm surprised no-one suggested a Ned be the Scottish UU.
Replaces Infantry, gets +2 to defence due to very thick tracksuits. Gets -2 to attack because half-bricks, broken bottles and small knives aren't very useful as weapons against anything but 3 or four normal people.
Sound Effect: Ho you, wee man!
Replaces Infantry, gets +2 to defence due to very thick tracksuits. Gets -2 to attack because half-bricks, broken bottles and small knives aren't very useful as weapons against anything but 3 or four normal people.
Sound Effect: Ho you, wee man!
Archimedes
Chieftain
Ok here's my tuppence worth.
UU:
Why not give the UU a double attack bonus. This doesn't really feature in civ until modern armour so would be quite a novelty for a earlier age UU.
Traits:
Scientific - aye definitely see: http://www.magicdragon.com/Wallace/thingscot.html. Scots have produced some of the most important inventions in history, including: the steam engine (James Watt), the telephone (Alexander Graham Bell), penicillin (Alexander Fleming), Fax transmission (Alexander Bain), Radar (Sir Robert Watson-Watt and Magnetic resonance imaging (John Mallard). Today that tradition continues with groundbreaking developments in a range of hi-tech sectors, including: biotechnology (cloning The Roslin Institute), software (First computer strategy game Lemmings David Jones) and healthcare (beta-blockers Nobel Laureate Sir James W. Black). Ok many other people could create a list for their civ but you Scotland is a small country so the fact they made such a valuable contribution to science is testiment to their ingenuity (ok, I'll try not to get too carried away - Scot's are also modest a label that can't be applied to some of their closest neighbours).
Militaristic - I think a stronger case can be made for Industrious. Think of Glasgow being the "2nd city of the British Empire." during the industrial revolution - www.glasgow.gov.uk/html/about/history/history2.htm
(Altho' someone makes a claim for Calcutta being the 2nd city of Empire. see: www.atrip2india.com/cities/calcutta.htm).
Replacement civ:
I couldn't play Scotland without having the chance to whup the English (no offence) so I hope you find a way to create additional civs rather than replacements.
If you need any help with the Scottish civ then let me know.
Cheers
UU:
Why not give the UU a double attack bonus. This doesn't really feature in civ until modern armour so would be quite a novelty for a earlier age UU.
Traits:
Scientific - aye definitely see: http://www.magicdragon.com/Wallace/thingscot.html. Scots have produced some of the most important inventions in history, including: the steam engine (James Watt), the telephone (Alexander Graham Bell), penicillin (Alexander Fleming), Fax transmission (Alexander Bain), Radar (Sir Robert Watson-Watt and Magnetic resonance imaging (John Mallard). Today that tradition continues with groundbreaking developments in a range of hi-tech sectors, including: biotechnology (cloning The Roslin Institute), software (First computer strategy game Lemmings David Jones) and healthcare (beta-blockers Nobel Laureate Sir James W. Black). Ok many other people could create a list for their civ but you Scotland is a small country so the fact they made such a valuable contribution to science is testiment to their ingenuity (ok, I'll try not to get too carried away - Scot's are also modest a label that can't be applied to some of their closest neighbours).
Militaristic - I think a stronger case can be made for Industrious. Think of Glasgow being the "2nd city of the British Empire." during the industrial revolution - www.glasgow.gov.uk/html/about/history/history2.htm
(Altho' someone makes a claim for Calcutta being the 2nd city of Empire. see: www.atrip2india.com/cities/calcutta.htm).
Replacement civ:
I couldn't play Scotland without having the chance to whup the English (no offence) so I hope you find a way to create additional civs rather than replacements.
If you need any help with the Scottish civ then let me know.
Cheers
Archimedes
Chieftain
I agree with replacing the musketman with the stats reversed and giving the unit the ability to attack twice (like modern armour) - this was essentially what the Highland charge was: A musket volley would be fired, the claymores drawn and the enemy line charged by scary, screaming men in kilts. The enemy usually didn't have time to reload before being cut down. It would be interesting if the civ rules allowed different attack bonuses from the first and second attack to indicate the different weapons: muskets and claymores. http://www.contemplator.com/history/claverhouse.html tells the story of the battle of Killikrankie (among other things) which is quoted as being the last effective use of the Highland charge proper.
Scottish Civ...
Leader should be Robert de Bruce, he was the only Scottish leader ever to defeat an English army led by the King of England in the field at Bannockburn. (Other Scots victories like Otterburn the King of England wasn't present).
Unique Unit - I've seen this discussed before, why would a Highlander or Clansman be so primative? (Like a swordsman) Socially the highlands were backward, but highlanders tended to be well equipped in terms of weapons. Also I'd say the golden age of the clan's was in the early modern period meaning it should be a gun powder unit.
The famous 'highland charge' was a tactic the Scots learned from Gustavous Adolphus's Swedish army during the 30 years war in Germany. (It's estimated that 50,000+ Scots served in the Swedish army 1629-48, not nessicarily all at once mind). I'd make the highlander a musketeer with the ability to treat all terrian as road and maybe improve the attack and lower the defence, say 4-3-1...
Alternatively give the Scots a special Pikeman. 1-3-1 but with all terrian as road; to simulate Robert de Bruce's fighting style.
DOn't include Bonny Prince Charlie PLEASE. He wasn't Scottish and he only got involved with Scotland because he wanted to be King of England. (There were 4 Jacobite rebellions in all, 2 were disasters, while the 45 and the 15 both could have succeeded if all the Jacobites wanted was Scotland. But they were always after the English throne. They took advantage of the Scots and did nothing for them).
Leader should be Robert de Bruce, he was the only Scottish leader ever to defeat an English army led by the King of England in the field at Bannockburn. (Other Scots victories like Otterburn the King of England wasn't present).
Unique Unit - I've seen this discussed before, why would a Highlander or Clansman be so primative? (Like a swordsman) Socially the highlands were backward, but highlanders tended to be well equipped in terms of weapons. Also I'd say the golden age of the clan's was in the early modern period meaning it should be a gun powder unit.
The famous 'highland charge' was a tactic the Scots learned from Gustavous Adolphus's Swedish army during the 30 years war in Germany. (It's estimated that 50,000+ Scots served in the Swedish army 1629-48, not nessicarily all at once mind). I'd make the highlander a musketeer with the ability to treat all terrian as road and maybe improve the attack and lower the defence, say 4-3-1...
Alternatively give the Scots a special Pikeman. 1-3-1 but with all terrian as road; to simulate Robert de Bruce's fighting style.
DOn't include Bonny Prince Charlie PLEASE. He wasn't Scottish and he only got involved with Scotland because he wanted to be King of England. (There were 4 Jacobite rebellions in all, 2 were disasters, while the 45 and the 15 both could have succeeded if all the Jacobites wanted was Scotland. But they were always after the English throne. They took advantage of the Scots and did nothing for them).
Highlander_two
Chieftain
YESssssss!!!!!!
I think I would play a Scottish Mod/Scenario almost exclusively. I've always taken great pride in my Scottish ancestry.
Based on personal preference and ancestry, I'd like to propose an addition to Calgacus' cities list -- Glencoe. While it may not be very big population-wise, what place better represents the tragedy and betrayal so rampant in Scottish history. Otherwise, the list is great.
GO FOR IT!!
I think I would play a Scottish Mod/Scenario almost exclusively. I've always taken great pride in my Scottish ancestry.
Based on personal preference and ancestry, I'd like to propose an addition to Calgacus' cities list -- Glencoe. While it may not be very big population-wise, what place better represents the tragedy and betrayal so rampant in Scottish history. Otherwise, the list is great.
GO FOR IT!!
I think that the Scottish social organization would be better represented if you used clan names as the "cities". The clans after all were the major social/political organization of Scotland, especially in the Highlands.
* If you need, I can post a full list of Scottish clans.
* If you need, I can post a full list of Scottish clans.
Civ leader would have to be Bruce, even though he was part Norman the rest (Mary, the James and Alexanders, Macbeth, etc.) just don't have the profile of success that Bruce had.
For great leaders you might include Edward Bruce (one of Roberts brothers). Even though he failed in the end, he had a good old go at conquering Ireland for the Scots - which would have been interesting alternate history wise.
UU - would need to be the Clansman/Highlander. When Scots regiments were so successfull for the 'British Empire' they were of course fighting for the English rather than the Scots. It would make as much sense for the English to have 'Scots Regiment' as a UU as it does for them to have a Man-o-War.
For great leaders you might include Edward Bruce (one of Roberts brothers). Even though he failed in the end, he had a good old go at conquering Ireland for the Scots - which would have been interesting alternate history wise.
UU - would need to be the Clansman/Highlander. When Scots regiments were so successfull for the 'British Empire' they were of course fighting for the English rather than the Scots. It would make as much sense for the English to have 'Scots Regiment' as a UU as it does for them to have a Man-o-War.
Technically when the Scots were fighting for the British Empire they were fighting for themselves. Remember England legally caesed to exist along with Scotland during when the Union of Parliaments took place in 1707.
The reality of the situation was/is that England with a far larger population and more MP's effectively controlled the British state.
But that, I suppose, is Democracy for you.
However I tend to never use the term England for any 'British' event after 1707 - if only to annoy the English.
The reality of the situation was/is that England with a far larger population and more MP's effectively controlled the British state.
But that, I suppose, is Democracy for you.
However I tend to never use the term England for any 'British' event after 1707 - if only to annoy the English.
Mmmm, fair point but the English tended to view it differently than the Scots I think. You still hear the term England, Britain, UK, etc. used interchangably (often even by the most 'politically correct') by English authors/broadcasters.
You might legitimately view the Scots regiments therefore as mercenaries (the Swiss pikemen of their day) - Scotsmen 'on the make' as Johnson would have it.
Just as long as one of the city names used is not 'Darien' we'll be ok. Perhaps a custom rule should be that Scotland is unable to found colonies.....
You might legitimately view the Scots regiments therefore as mercenaries (the Swiss pikemen of their day) - Scotsmen 'on the make' as Johnson would have it.
Just as long as one of the city names used is not 'Darien' we'll be ok. Perhaps a custom rule should be that Scotland is unable to found colonies.....
Aye, but ye've forgotten some places:
Kirkcudbright
Twynholm
Castle Douglas (home of Threave Castle, the Black Douglas' residence)
Gatehouse Of Fleet (Cardoness Castle)
A' guid Scottish toons, roonaboot where I live.
OK, I'll skip the fake accent. Typed accents dinna work.
Cabal
Chieftain
A lot of people are coming up with places and names they'd like to see. Here's a thought: how about a mod where ALL the Civs are various Scottish clans?
The history of Scotland is largely one on interclan intrigue, squabbling, and fighting. Why not set up a mod where the MacDonalds, Frasiers, MacFarlanes, MacLeods et al can all grab their own clan territories and go at it?
Of course, that would mean that Wheat Icons would have to be replaced by Peat, Wines replaced with Uisge (whiskey to most of you), and the cattle icon modified to longhaired Highland cattle. And of course, not solid colors; each Civ clan would need its own tartan...
The history of Scotland is largely one on interclan intrigue, squabbling, and fighting. Why not set up a mod where the MacDonalds, Frasiers, MacFarlanes, MacLeods et al can all grab their own clan territories and go at it?
Of course, that would mean that Wheat Icons would have to be replaced by Peat, Wines replaced with Uisge (whiskey to most of you), and the cattle icon modified to longhaired Highland cattle. And of course, not solid colors; each Civ clan would need its own tartan...
The Scots were mercenaries!
Over 50,000 served in the Swedish army during the 30 years war and another Scottish army fought in France during the 100 years war - they apparently formed the bulk of the supposedly French army who defeated the English at Bauge (excuse spelling).
Holland had a 'Scots Bridage' for about 200 years - it was disbanded around 1787ish.
Then you have various Jacobite refugee's selling their skills to the highest bidder - Field Marshall Kieth in the Prussian Army and that Douglas guy who's regarded as the founder of the Russian Navy.
I'd say in mercenary terms the Scots are second only to the Swiss.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
To Shockwave or anyone else, how is the Scots mod coming along? Its been a while and still there's nothing.
docceh
Iron Maiden Fan!
great ideas here!!!
except replacing the english.... the most entertaining aspect about playing the Celts in Civ2, etc was the ability to obliterate the english!!!
muwahAHAhahahahah!!!!
ahem
except replacing the english.... the most entertaining aspect about playing the Celts in Civ2, etc was the ability to obliterate the english!!!
muwahAHAhahahahah!!!!
ahem
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
Cabal's suggestions were best. Act of Union or no, the "scottish renaissance" was in the early industrial period, with Adam Smith's trading company and the like, so that's when the Golden Age should be.
P.S. I refuse to play unless Inverness is bumped up on the list. My clan will be offended and an' a'ill cut yer throat, ya sassanach bass'trd if ya don't!
Good effort so far though. I vote the Bruce.
P.S. I refuse to play unless Inverness is bumped up on the list. My clan will be offended and an' a'ill cut yer throat, ya sassanach bass'trd if ya don't!
Good effort so far though. I vote the Bruce.
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
Whoops I hadn't read the whole thread. I mean Cabal's suggestion about Highlanders replacing riflemen. And the all-clan idea is, well, something we MacIntosh types would love to see in MP. The savagery would be inspiring. The Campbells bombing the snot out of the MacDonalds, etc. Luvly!
Well, I added the Scots (as well as several other civs) and here's what I did:
I made them Scientific/Industrious, I feel Military is more appropriate for "conqueror" civs.
I made the Clan Warrior replace Pikemen, stats are 2/3/1 and unlike Pikemen, don't require Iron. Why a defensive unit? Well the Scots have always been more about defending their territory than attacking others, so it made sense to me.
I made them Scientific/Industrious, I feel Military is more appropriate for "conqueror" civs.
I made the Clan Warrior replace Pikemen, stats are 2/3/1 and unlike Pikemen, don't require Iron. Why a defensive unit? Well the Scots have always been more about defending their territory than attacking others, so it made sense to me.
Sixchan
Emperor
Hmm, I think that for a defensive unit, a Schiltrom would be better, like the ones used in Wallace's battles against the English? 1/4/1, replaces Pikemen? You're right about not needing iron, since I don't believe the Schilroms wore any, since they were designed to repel cavalry charges.
