Scout > Archer issue (Ruins)

[TheMarshmallowBear]

So...... can something be done regarding the issue that if a Scout encounters an ancient ruin that upgrades the unit that it becomes an Archer and loses it's ability to earn the Scout promotions that are the only reason why I build/bought the Scout in the first place?

Is that something that is by design or is that something that can be tackled, it could be that we could have a unique ruin-only unit or something that would fill in the blank between Scout and Explorer.

But it is rather annoying to lose Scout's promotion opportunities if you encounter the ruin.

 

[WileyNg]

On the flip side, you'll get a super archer unit that ignores terrain cost and probably comes with some scouts promotions too.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

On the flip side, you'll get a super archer unit that ignores terrain cost and probably comes with some scouts promotions too.

True.. that is the flip side but I almost never stop exploring with those units so they wander up until they are obselete when I finally win the game

 

[Funak]

True.. that is the flip side but I almost never stop exploring with those units so they wander up until they are obselete when I finally win the game

You should, terrain-ignoring archers are extremely powerful tools. Just buy another scout

 

[Delekhan]

I'll happily take a fast archer over another recon level or two.

The Shoshone have it even better: The Pathfinder upgrades to a composite bowman!

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

You know, personally I am not too bothered by the logic, but the thing is I don't want to stop exploring with that Archer and build another one, even if it meant that the Archer had access to the promotions that the Scout had (namely the visibility one)

 

[Finarvi]

I'll happily take a fast archer over another recon level or two.

The Shoshone have it even better: The Pathfinder upgrades to a composite bowman!

Yes and it hurts even more. You loose your upgrade paths that's one (as Marsh pointed). But you also loose 3 which is very bad as you want to run through barbarians to get as much ruins you can (especially with your special promotion). And you loose melee attack so you can't run into ancient ruin / barb camp if there is low health enemy unit or archer.

You know, personally I am not too bothered by the logic, but the thing is I don't want to stop exploring with that Archer and build another one, even if it meant that the Archer had access to the promotions that the Scout had (namely the visibility one)

I agree. Visibility upgrades for scouts are great. With them you can scout very quickly and stay alive - you'll be able to avoid wandering barbs effectively.

I think it would be better if ruins gave you occasionaly new unit istead. Escorting workers to your cities could be interesting mini-quest. Or you could just get them in nearest city as you sometimes get bonus . And... well it's strange if you ocasionally step into ruin with your pikemen and find ancient muskets... Fun but strange I don't know if it was fixed in CPP.

 

[Funak]

Yes and it hurts even more. You loose your upgrade paths that's one (as Marsh pointed). But you also loose 3 :c5streght: which is very bad as you want to run through barbarians to get as much ruins you can (especially with your special promotion). And you loose melee attack so you can't run into ancient ruin / barb camp if there is low health enemy unit or archer.

Yeah and instead you end up with a superpowered ancient era comp-bow that can pretty much conquer AI cities by itself. Pretty fair tradeoff.

I agree. Visibility upgrades for scouts are great. With them you can scout very quickly and stay alive - you'll be able to avoid wandering barbs effectively.

I think it would be better if ruins gave you occasionaly new unit istead. And... well it's strange if you step with your pikemen and get muskets for example... I don't know if it was fixed in CPP.

That's one thing I'm kinda weirded out by, shouldn't rank 1 promotions guarantee you to be able to pick up later rank promotions?
Does it work the same way for that unique unit that received rank 1 survivability? Is it also locked from picking further promotions in that category?

 

[Finarvi]

Yeah and instead you end up with a superpowered ancient era comp-bow that can pretty much conquer AI cities by itself. Pretty fair tradeoff.

Conquer AI cities by itself I wouldn't go that far.

At least when playing Shoshone, returning to your cities whole map isn't worth that if you can take more ruins and survive.

That's one thing I'm kinda weirded out by, shouldn't rank 1 promotions guarantee you to be able to pick up later rank promotions?
Does it work the same way for that unique unit that received rank 1 survivability? Is it also locked from picking further promotions in that category?

Hmm well, I didn't check that actualy. My scout upgraded to comp bowman only to be surrounded and get killed 3 turns later by 2 barb warriors (2 hits and almost dead; without upgrade, shoshone scouts fight as good as warriors so it takes 4 hits at least).

 

[Strigvir]

It could be solved by adding pre-renaissance scout unit and shuffle it like hunter-scout-explorer.
But alas it requires artwork changes and gazebo said "no" to them.

 

[Funak]

Conquer AI cities by itself I wouldn't go that far.

If you have any melee-unit to waltz in and take it, it's pretty much guaranteed, the AI city can't fire two tiles before classical era, and you can get your compbow as early as your first ruin. (or second one if you want to grab culture and use the decision to get more scouts)

Hmm well, I didn't check that actualy. My scout upgraded to comp bowman only to be surrounded and get killed 3 turns later by 2 barb warriors (2 hits and almost dead; without upgrade, shoshone scouts fight as good as warriors so it takes 4 hits at least).

If you have access to that advanced start mod thingie, could you check out if that unique unit can grab survivalist 2 if it gets enough exp to level up?

 

[Gazebo]

Units lose access to other unit class promotions when they change classes.

G

 

[Funak]

Units lose access to other unit class promotions when they change classes.

G

Yes that much was clear, but how does it work with the unique unit starting with survivalism 1? Can it pick survivalism 2 when it levels up?

 

[Gazebo]

Yes that much was clear, but how does it work with the unique unit starting with survivalism 1? Can it pick survivalism 2 when it levels up?

Only if it remains in that unit combat class.
G

 

[Funak]

Only if it remains in that unit combat class.
G

Well it is a gunpowder unit, isn't it? I don't see how those would change combat class.

 

[Gazebo]

It could be solved by adding pre-renaissance scout unit and shuffle it like hunter-scout-explorer.
But alas it requires artwork changes and gazebo said "no" to them.

It was a soft 'no' - more like, 'if we have no other option, then yes.' If someone wants to make a courier du bois-esque piece of art for me (unit icon and 3d model), I'm happy to oblige. I'm not a great artist, I'll tell you that.

G

 

[Elhoim]

Getting a new unit sounds quite interesting.

 

[zer0lis]

My scouts turn to Greater Scouts thanks to JDF's eXce

 

[TeeInKay]

the upgrade path for scouts is cool in ExCE, and if u change a 0 to a 1 it ends with an airship, yay!

 

[Delekhan]

ExCE is just awesome in that regard (and several others).