Scouting/Exploring

[aluelkdf]

I would like to see some sort of scout unit for the mid-game. In Civ 4 they had a scout and an explorer. An explorer was basically the same thing as a scout but more powerful.

I say this because the scout is so weak its almost useless in combat, even in self defense. A scout can't even hold its own against a warrior. 1 warrior won't kill a scoout in 1 strike, but 2 strikes will certainley kill a scout. And there could still be some unexplored land by the time barbarians have pikeman. A scout doesn't stand a chance against a pikeman.

There is a big difference between the technology from 4,000 BC to 1,000 AD. I know you can use military units to scout, but there should be a scouting unit for the later game that is more powerful than a scout, and maybe should be able to move faster than a scout too. And the mid-game scout should look the part too, it should look more modern than the scout of 4,000 BC. Maybe the later scouts can even be equiped with guns to be more effective at defending themselves.

A scout should never be able to fight toe to toe with a military unit of the same era. But in 1,000 AD a single scout should be able to massacere a group of 3 or 4 warriors.

 

[Pax_Romanus]

I agree whole-heartedly. I've even had the idea to have a wholeline of scouts which would include paratroopers as the end of the promotion line. Scouts need a few upgrades.

 

[Calouste]

but there should be a scouting unit for the later game that is more powerful than a scout, and maybe should be able to move faster than a scout too.

It exists. It's called a Horseman.

 

[Lyoncet]

Horseman is not a later game unit. It obsoletes in the Medieval era. It also loses movement while crossing a river and costs a strategic resource. It is not a replacement for the scout.

As for the OP, I agree entirely. Honestly, just a 3-movement scout with a couple extra strength, or possibly starting with a +1 sight promotion, would be fine. If I need to get a little extra scouting in the classical era or later I'd gladly spend a couple extra turns building that over a scout. Perhaps you could make it ignore zones of control if you were looking to make it more mobile/scouty without actually increasing its movement rate.

 

[Civsassin]

Horseman is not a later game unit. It obsoletes in the Medieval era. It also loses movement while crossing a river and costs a strategic resource. It is not a replacement for the scout.

As for the OP, I agree entirely. Honestly, just a 3-movement scout with a couple extra strength, or possibly starting with a +1 sight promotion, would be fine. If I need to get a little extra scouting in the classical era or later I'd gladly spend a couple extra turns building that over a scout. Perhaps you could make it ignore zones of control if you were looking to make it more mobile/scouty without actually increasing its movement rate.

Calouste's point is that you don't need scouts late game. Send off a horseman, or any other later game variant to do your scouting. It will survive longer than a scout, and has better movement ability.

 

[aluelkdf]

Horseman is not a later game unit. It obsoletes in the Medieval era. It also loses movement while crossing a river and costs a strategic resource. It is not a replacement for the scout.

I agree. Maybe the later scouts can be on horseback to give them extra movement, but they should have all the abilities of crossing rivers and hills that a scout has. And a mid-game scout should not cost any resources. Also, no matter what era the scout is in it should be cheaper to build than a military unit of the same era (except maybe a modern era scout would be more expensive, more detail on that below).

I agree whole-heartedly. I've even had the idea to have a wholeline of scouts which would include paratroopers as the end of the promotion line. Scouts need a few upgrades.

I would like to see a whole line of scouts. I played a mod once that took place in the modern world. The mod had spy satellites. In the game once you research satellites all of the terrain is uncovered, but you still can't see the enemy units. I would like to see spy satellites added to the main game. It would be the scout of the modern era. This way you can fly your satellite over enemy territory and see exactly what is going on. And it just hovers there indefinitely, turn after turn, until you move it someplace else. The mod was for civ 4, but in civ 5 it would be the equivalent to revealing an area equivalent to a radius of about 4 hexes. You can move it wherever you want and the other civs don't even know it's there.

 

[DaveMcW]

you can fly your satellite over enemy territory and see exactly what is going on. And it just hovers there indefinitely, turn after turn, until you move it someplace else.

Spy satellites generally orbit below 1000 km for good image quality. Geosynchronous orbit is 35,786 km.

Therefore, spy satellites can't hover.

 

[aluelkdf]

Spy satellites generally orbit below 1000 km for good image quality. Geosynchronous orbit is 35,786 km.

Therefore, spy satellites can't hover.

I know satellites can't hover. They orbit the earth at thousands of km/hour. But for the purposes of the game they hover. There is no way to replicate the orbiting of the Earth in the game. A satellite "hovering" would be a representation of a country keeping an eye on a particular area of the Earth with it's satellites. Even though the satellites are contently orbiting, once they are over the target area the people operating the satellite recon the area more carefully than the other areas that the satellite orbits over.

 

[Raiki]

Honestly? I'd settle for letting the scout upgrade into something. Anything, really. Maybe add it to the pikeman line? Scout->Pikeman would sit just fine with me. I never really build pikes, but having one that ignored terrain cost, had extra sight, healed at double outside friendly territory and got +50% Combat Strength when on defense. Okay, yeah, I'll take it.

~R~

 

[elprofesor]

Honestly? I'd settle for letting the scout upgrade into something. Anything, really. Maybe add it to the pikeman line? Scout->Pikeman would sit just fine with me. I never really build pikes, but having one that ignored terrain cost, had extra sight, healed at double outside friendly territory and got +50% Combat Strength when on defense. Okay, yeah, I'll take it.

~R~

That would eventually mean that all your units would end up with the "ignore terrain cost" promotion. And it would greatly undermine the power of the minutemen.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I wish Scouts had a bonus against Barbarians for some reason -.-

 

[Raiki]

That would eventually mean that all your units would end up with the "ignore terrain cost" promotion. And it would greatly undermine the power of the minutemen.

Well then let it upgrade to an archer manually. I'd say have it cost about 100, since A) Archers are way better than scouts at around the same era, and B) Scout Archers are way better than Archers. Then, once the upgrade paths get fixed in G&K, only your machine guns would have the promotion. Problem solved.

~R~

 

[Human Crouton]

I wish they would make scouts on auto-explore avoid barbarians. They seem to beeline right to barbarian camps.

 

[shaglio]

I wish they would make scouts on auto-explore avoid barbarians. They seem to beeline right to barbarian camps.

I once had an automated Scout head straight toward a barbarian camp, where it promptly got beaten down. So I pulled it back to heal up, and, when it was good to go, I automated it again. Where did it go? Straight for that same barbarian camp that gave it the original beating. I guess they have no short-term memory. But it’s probably my own fault for being too lazy and not moving it manually.

As for late game scouting, Lancers have great speed and eventually upgrade to Helicopter Gunships which can even traverse mountains. The only problem is the Anti-Tank Gun unit in between.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I once had an automated Scout head straight toward a barbarian camp, where it promptly got beaten down. So I pulled it back to heal up, and, when it was good to go, I automated it again. Where did it go? Straight for that same barbarian camp that gave it the original beating. I guess they have no short-term memory. But it’s probably my own fault for being too lazy and not moving it manually.

As for late game scouting, Lancers have great speed and eventually upgrade to Helicopter Gunships which can even traverse mountains. The only problem is the Anti-Tank Gun unit in between.

Omg! I just played as Babylon and having two unknown leaders I chose a Lancer as my new scout unit (didn't know Lancer were good for scouting)

 

[shaglio]

Omg! I just played as Babylon and having two unknown leaders I chose a Lancer as my new scout unit (didn't know Lancer were good for scouting)

It's not so much that they're good for scouting. It's that they have a high movement rate which lets them cover a lot more ground quickly.

 

[aluelkdf]

When America made the Louisiana purchase from the French, it effectivley doubled the size of America overnight. The US government hired some scouts to explore their new territory, this exploration was the famous Lewis & Clark expedition. They were equiped with guns, but were not a military outfit, just scouts. There was a huge difference in the technology used in the Lewis & Clark expedition compared to when the ancient Greeks were exploring the medditeranian area. That's one reason why I think scouts should be upgradeable, to reflect the difference in scouting over the course of history.

 

[Jo the spearman]

Later scouts would need a bonus against barbs or else they would just have the rough terrain movement bonus (not very useful when you already explored most of the world).

I suspect the reason we haven't got any new scout unit is because Firaxis is keeping it for the second expansion.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I think scout should remain scout, only one unit as it is, but automatically (not through purchasable upgrade) get updated every era. So in modern era for example the scout would run around with sniper rifle or something. Still the weakest unit in it's era, but wouldn't get raped by cavemen... How bout that, huh?

 

[vcutag]

I know satellites can't hover. They orbit the earth at thousands of km/hour. But for the purposes of the game they hover. There is no way to replicate the orbiting of the Earth in the game. A satellite "hovering" would be a representation of a country keeping an eye on a particular area of the Earth with it's satellites. Even though the satellites are contently orbiting, once they are over the target area the people operating the satellite recon the area more carefully than the other areas that the satellite orbits over.

Or they could bring back the ability of bombers and fighters to fly recon missions. A single stealth bomber could cover a lot of terrain in 3-4 turns. Also, allow submarines to enter foreign waters without requiring open borders.