scouting with a fishing boat - when will barbarian galleys start to spawn?

[Pumabear]

I often scout with a fishing boat in order to make more contacts with other civs so that I have more to trade technologies with once I have the alphabet.

But I hate losing that fishing boat to a barbarian galley.

So I wonder if anyone knows when they start spawning? Because its probably time to take that fishing boat back once they have started to spawn.

Or do you consider it worth the risk of dying with that fishing boat in order to keep searching for more contacts to trade techs with? Not taking every opportunity you can to trade tech is pretty expensive, but dying with fishing boats (or galleys) are pretty expensive too.

 

[Manco Capac]

Barbs galley start to appear once the barb team has researched Sailing. And since the barb team research rate is extremely low and a trickle down of civilized nations (yeah, faster are the AI's+human players, faster are the barbs in their evolution). Just like axes will spawn once the barb team will finish BW.

So, in the end, it depends of the level of difficulty you play on.

 

[Pumabear]

Barbs galley start to appear once the barb team has researched Sailing. And since the barb team research rate is extremely low and a trickle down of civilized nations (yeah, faster are the AI's+human players, faster are the barbs in their evolution). Just like axes will spawn once the barb team will finish BW.

So, in the end, it depends of the level of difficulty you play on.

Is it possible to find out what they have researched? If not, does anyone know when they will have researched Sailing on average on Deity?

 

[Manco Capac]

For once, I don't have clear recall which period barb galleys started to spawn, but you can easily test via chipotle function, which is:

1) Find your ini and in that file find the cheat line. Change "0" for "chipotle".
2) Start a game without Lock Modified Assets (default in other words) and press the combo CTRL+Z
3) You just entered the debugged mode that allows you to see everything including tech progressions of all teams. Just get the tech tree and in the upper left corner, there's a menu to swap the civ tech tree and that includes barbs.
4) Press Next Turn untils you perceive the barbs have chosen Sailing tech.

 

[Macksideshow]

Your knowledge of civ never ceases to amaze me Tachywaxon. So much so that I am not even sure if you are serious or just make things up sometimes, such as the chipotle function (like WTH?). I have a hard time getting my head around somebody knowing so many fine details of this game.

Anyway, I seriously feel a little tingle whenever you post something.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yeah, it's pretty condensed recipe I gave (because I'm tired to repeat the exact procedure) and the naming makes the process unbelievable, but type Jon Shafer+chipotle and you'll see instantly I didn't make this up.

I guess one programmer on some day felt that way:

 

[Pumabear]

Did some research.

Looked into 4 games with these settings: Deity, Small Map, Fractal, Marathon and the rest standard settings.

Got this result:

First animal spawn:
3910, 3910, 3895, 3910 BC

First barb warrior spawn:
3355, 3370, 3355, 3340 BC

First barb archer spawn:
3355, 3340, 3310, 3370 BC

Last animal:
3235, 3280, 3175, 3235 BC

First barb city:
2980, 2995, 2830, 2980 BC

First time barbarians enter your borders to attack your city:
2010, 2360, 2190, 2340 BC

First barb galley:
1880, 2070, 1720, 1990 BC


Will be sending home my boat at latest 2150 from now on.

 

[Manco Capac]

Nice researches. It is where you clearly define yourself from lazy askers and that motivates me to answer moar!
I see you are playing marathon, thus even if I knew the exact periods per experience, I wouldn't be a help because I mostly play normal speed. My marathon days are so far I vaguely recall anything.

Now, let's add some deterministic info:

• Animals always start to spawn in between turns 5-6. All gamespeed.
• Barb invasions start when the number of cities is over 2*number of players
• Marathon will deviate with early relative times because of cheaper workers
• First Archer doesn't matter on deity as the first human barbs are either warriors or archers. Given deity barb team has free archery, then it's a dice roll between archer or warrior for being the first barb unit
• Now, the first human barb units and barb cities are determined by two parameters: global number of cities (the same parameter for invasion, but with different values) and a fixed value of minimality. To start with the last, it is more correlated (or more relevant) to scenario where many cities are already settled at the start of the game and such situation would lead instantaneously to early barbs and invasions and that fixed value thwart that to avoid mass destruction without ability to counter. The # of cities value parameter is something like Global#ofCities>1.5*NumberOfPlayers IIRC. Don't recall for barb cities but it's later than barb units.
• Marathon is known for it's broken spawn rate of barb units and it's not a mistake of the developpers, it's a chosen decision. And I guess the cheaper units come in play along that or vice-versa.

 

[plastiqe]

I like to lure barb galleys to follow me to AI coasts and then hide in their cities for safety while their fishing nets get torn up.

 

[Macksideshow]

I like to lure barb galleys to follow me to AI coasts and then hide in their cities for safety while their fishing nets get torn up.

That's awesome. I love Civ.