[SDK] Sub-Map: “Zoom-In” on Tiles for Tactical Combat Map, Simcity-ish Building, RPG

[chrusion]

God, if you can here me, please bless this project....

The uses for this utility are endless. Good luck, I really hope you can get it to fly.

tactical battlefields
simcity-ish city building & organization
multiple world space mods
Underground sub maps
& on & on

This would take Civilization to a new level. I've been hoping for this since I started playing civ (CivII). Maybe you can talk to the people at Firaxis? Maybe they can point you in the right direction? I know Kael was hoping somebody would do this...and he knows people...maybe PM him, and maybe he could give you a contact?

May the force be with you.

I will check on the contacts...

Multiplayer would be more difficult to balance playtime with. I have seen a game that had a multiplayer solution for tactical battles between two of the eight strategic players (all players got a part) but I cannot remember the name or the solution.
However, this would be just one specific mod and I am making a general mod for you modders to play around with.


Some “specific mod” implementations of this general mod:
If tactical battles are put on a very small map, they can be quickly played out and no one will have to wait very long.
The non-involved players do not have to see the battle but an “observer” option should be easy to implement from the same code that the Sub-Map is generated from.
Allied or even last man standing tactical battles could be played out between several players who meet in the same tile during simultaneous play.
The option to buy units (temporary or permanent) during tactical battles could be written in to the mod, maybe even allowing allies to buy units to be a part of the battle.

These ideas are rough brainstorms for future implementations of this mod and are not likely be coded into this mod.
My first build-ons to this mod will be towards making the RPG conversion. Any general mods will be released as a part of the SDK Community enhancement project

 

[albertd]

SDK analysis leads me to believe that deriving from the CivGlobals class is the best place to start. The objects of the derived class will each represent a Sub-Map. Only persistant changes need to be stored. All other data can be shared.

CivGlobals is a Singleton but a derived class could have a dynamic datastructure to hold multiple object instances of the class and still maintain a pseudo-Singleton appearance.
I have designed a datastructure that may be perfect for this implementation.

Can I see what you made so far?

I had the same idea which is why I started with downloading the SDK in the first place. Do you have resources about the SDK to get into more quickly?

Making sub-maps would require that recursive data structure to appear to outside classes as one map, the one which is currently selected. I can imagine two situations:
1. The submap is entered by user action, i.e. a combat map is created at the start of a combat. Then there are several sub-turns inside the map with different tiles, different units, different ai, different users (only those involved in the battle). So you would have a complete little sub-game.
Questions:
- how are the elements (xml+python) of that sub-game initialized? I think it should be able to mod submap rules independently. (subfolders ?)
- how do you perform several turns inside the submap and then return to the main game at the point where you left it? Do we control the main turn loop?

2. There are persistent submaps, i.e. city submaps or planet submaps. They would be recursively travelled each turn, as if they were areas of one big map.
- AI would need to know about submaps and how to make use of them. Also how to deal with different rules inside submaps. Modders should be able to add python code to extend AI into using a specific submap mod.

Great thing, really. I hope we see it all working. I'm far behind in my knowledge about the system, but I'll try to catch up.

Albert

 

[chrusion]

albertd,
you got me thinking!

It may not be as difficult as I have begun to believe.

First, some hurdles:
We do not have control of the game loop.
This means we have to trick CivIV into playing the Sub-Map turns while it thinks it is playing normal turns.

Here is a plan:
Each tile gets two more dimensions: U & V
U is the Sub-Map name for its X axis.
V is the Sub-Map name for its Y axis.
Now everything is located at a coordinate (X, Y, U, V).
CivIV does not care about U or V. This is good. The game will play normally.

On the switch to the Sub-Map of (X42, Y38), all the UV coordinates in this tile begin to be read as XY coordinates, the UV map is generated on the fly with a pseudo-random algorithm, and all items not on (X42,Y38) are disabled.

The pseudo-random algorithm assures that the same terrain will be randomly generated for this tile every time it is entered. It is also a possibility to allow AI to place units, buildings, and upgrades in “Virtual” Sub-Maps generated by a well tuned pseudo-random algorithm.

Switching back to the Strategy Map would erase all non-persistent data in the UV Sub-Map and restore the XY Strategy Map. All XY items would again become active.

Time could also be given an extra dimension. Sub-Map time would swap in while in a Sub-Map.


There is still more to think about.

 

[Starship]

Man I am glad you are still on the case. Keep up the good work. Alot of us are very interested in what you are doing.

 

[A Silly Goose]

This sounds like it might actually turn into something.

While there is nothing I can really do to aid you, I can at least let you know that your efforts will be very much appreciated.

 

[seZereth]

yea please keep on working, imagining my regiments mod in a tactical combat map would be a dream!!!!

 

[Mriswith]

I have been sending requests to Firaxis since Civ III to have them put in a purely OPTIONAL tactical combat system much like Age of Wonders has. If they wrote it into the system from the start as an optional thing, i think it would be pretty easy to implement, and with it being optional, those that do not want it simply do not have to use it.

What i would suggest then, is that everyone interested in seeing something like this happen go to the Firaxis site and send them feedback saying you want to see Tactical Combat in Civilization. Even if we have to wait for Civ V, i'd still like to see it implemented.