Revenant27
Chieftain
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So when running a SE do run every city with specialists, or just the ones that can support it and cottage the rest? Or do you do it by specialists, like one merchant city, one tech city, etc.
SE question
- Thread starter Revenant27
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Refar
Deity
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In a 'pure' SE every city will run specialists. Most of the time scientists, others if you don't have enought scientists slots (under Representation for the +3
) or for some special purpose. The Exception might be the capital, as specialist output does not get the 50% from Buerocracy, so sometimes you will cottage your capital for +50% 
from Buerocracy.
There are hybrid economies however, where you might choose to run specialists in some cities, while running cottages in others.
What you choose might depend on your leaders traits, the land, ...
) or for some special purpose. The Exception might be the capital, as specialist output does not get the 50% from Buerocracy, so sometimes you will cottage your capital for +50% from Buerocracy.There are hybrid economies however, where you might choose to run specialists in some cities, while running cottages in others.
What you choose might depend on your leaders traits, the land, ...
One kind of SE I often run is I use specialists and settled specialists in one city, and then the rest are often cottage or production based cities. With maybe one or two cities that help the specialist center with producing specialists.
Though it was a while since I played a full game of BTS, Fall from Heaven 2 is also fun to play with specialists. More fun actually.
Though it was a while since I played a full game of BTS, Fall from Heaven 2 is also fun to play with specialists. More fun actually.
futurehermit
Deity
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Usually when I run a SE now it is a weak SE with 2 cities (usually my capital and an opponent capital) running specialists and the rest commerce or production. The very odd time I'll go pure SE but only if the land really, really dictates it. The SE just doesn't seem to be what it used to in BtS. Partly I think it has to do with the AI teching slower now.
Not really, it has always just meant an economy based on specialists. There are of course several different ways to do that... hence the questions and the discussions. BtS has added a few nuances that mean the discussions continue.
Not even close. Neither of the economies futurehermit and Grey Fox describe can meaningfully be described as "based on specialists" with that few of them. Instead, "SE" has come to mean "any economy that uses specialists at all" which is, of course, all reasonable economies.
More precisely, both of the examples above *used* to be considered completely standard CEs - mostly cottages and production with one or two GPFs.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
AS I understand a SE is a classic farm/production specialist game. Cottages are minimal or ignored. Farms are preferred so you can run more specialists to fuel research. The idea is to run AMAP specialists, preferrably scientists. Representation/caste system are the nuclear weapon civics, Biology the nuke of techs. Pyramids are one of the best SE wonder as you get very early representation and the oracle is a close second where you can bulb CoL for early caste system. It is also a military system, so plan on early and agressive warring, do not settle back for a peaceful with, exception cultural where this works well too.
People mention SE breaks down post-democracy, I tend to disagree especially with the options in BTS. If you have used SE correctly and expanded militarily pre-democracy the large amounts of land far outweigh the smaller CE AIs.
Also you can get ALOT of commerce from trade routes and resoruces if you play your cards right.
I am a typical hybrid player and rarely use a strict SE myself, but I have done it and posted a game on it.
People mention SE breaks down post-democracy, I tend to disagree especially with the options in BTS. If you have used SE correctly and expanded militarily pre-democracy the large amounts of land far outweigh the smaller CE AIs.
Also you can get ALOT of commerce from trade routes and resoruces if you play your cards right.
I am a typical hybrid player and rarely use a strict SE myself, but I have done it and posted a game on it.
When I do an SE its usually one city pulling most of the weight with the help of specialists. If I go Scientists, I can lower research and get gold from the other cities, if I go Merchants I can get a bigger city with more specialists, and/or more production from tiles (but less from great specialists), and I can research at 100%.
With both strategies, the rest of my cities can be cottages or food, or production or all three. The point tho, is that its the specialist city that is making it all happen.
The specialist city is often my second city, or my capital. I try to get as much food as possible in it, all grass or as much floodplain as possible.
Since I barely play BTS anymore, most of my experience is from Fall from Heaven 2, where you can upgrade the terrain with magic, get a wonder and/or spell that removes unhappiness, etc. There is a civic that makes farms give +1 food, the tech that gives +1 food comes decently early if you go that path, there's a religion with a civic where your citizens only eat 1 food. Etc.
With both strategies, the rest of my cities can be cottages or food, or production or all three. The point tho, is that its the specialist city that is making it all happen.
The specialist city is often my second city, or my capital. I try to get as much food as possible in it, all grass or as much floodplain as possible.
Since I barely play BTS anymore, most of my experience is from Fall from Heaven 2, where you can upgrade the terrain with magic, get a wonder and/or spell that removes unhappiness, etc. There is a civic that makes farms give +1 food, the tech that gives +1 food comes decently early if you go that path, there's a religion with a civic where your citizens only eat 1 food. Etc.
Cause I know the same strategy works in vanilla. Just making a note that my BTS experience is probably sub-par to some of the other posters here so take it with a grain of salt.
But if we are discussion what can be called an SE. Then yes, the strategy I described is definitely an SE.
But if we are discussion what can be called an SE. Then yes, the strategy I described is definitely an SE.
Now that is just a wrong statement.
Since you know what a SE is and none of us does... why don't you define exactly what a SE is such that it is no longer a meaningless term?Madscientist said it quite well:
Which should in particular be contrasted with having one or a few cities that run specialists to produce GPs while the rest of the empire works cottages for commerce. If the terms are to have any meaning at all, that must be considered a CE - but these days, an awful lot of people call it an SE just because there are some specialists. It's no more reasonable than saying "if you build even one cottage, it's a CE."
Which should in particular be contrasted with having one or a few cities that run specialists to produce GPs while the rest of the empire works cottages for commerce. If the terms are to have any meaning at all, that must be considered a CE - but these days, an awful lot of people call it an SE just because there are some specialists.
It's no more reasonable than saying "if you build even one cottage, it's a CE."
obsolete
Deity
SE, does that have anything to do with GPPs?
And lastly... what are cottages? I haven't been able to figure that one out yet.
futurehermit
Deity
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If you are getting the majority of your beakers from specialists/great people then it is a SE. Period.
In the example I described, I would be getting the majority of my beakers from the specialists (primarily through bulbing and trading, which provides a huge ton of beakers early-to-mid game) while the commerce cities are simply paying my huge maintenance bills from so much conquering.
It's not an SE if you have one city devoted to GP farm and the rest is cottaged. You should do that anyways! Even with two cities devoted to specialists, that's still just a bit more aggressive GP farming, which everyone should do (the at least one GP farm, that is).
An SE is when you run most, if not all, cities with farms and specialists. You barely have any commerce. Whereas you would pay maintenance and maintain research with the commerce slider, this way you do it with the various assignments of specialists. It should be a relatively frequent situation (especially when warring) to have a negative income with 0% science, but still tech perfectly well and then reassign specialists to merchants to pay the maintenance.
An SE is when you run most, if not all, cities with farms and specialists. You barely have any commerce. Whereas you would pay maintenance and maintain research with the commerce slider, this way you do it with the various assignments of specialists. It should be a relatively frequent situation (especially when warring) to have a negative income with 0% science, but still tech perfectly well and then reassign specialists to merchants to pay the maintenance.
