Seafaring Hannibal

[sampsa]

1N is a lot better people give it credit for! I mean 1W? Lose a turn and a forest for 3 river tiles... 2W loses about the same amount of food as 1N and is way way way slower. The possibility of not needing to tech agri for a while on top of it.

 

[Henrik75]

yo 1N unironically might make the difference between getting the GLH or not on deity. between faster start and saving beakers on agri -> getting to sailing/masonry faster; i'm positive it saves a few turns on it.

 

[Gwaja]

So much talk about settling location. That corn tile is seriously trolling. Had it been a dry corn or even rice or wheat, maybe the choice might have been easier.

 

[Henrik75]

settling on the corn allows

Spoiler :

the hidden iron tile to be worked in the bureaucracy pumper capital

all part of the big brain plan

 

[Henrik75]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

Maybe it's a good position for you to investigate whether the mentioned buildings actually pay back better than not building them. You are whipping away FIN coast for buildings that take a while to pay back. Will building them improve your attack date? Once you attack, will they make a difference?

@sampsa

Spoiler :

i think the cothon is a very good building esp for a map like this, getting those up in the larger cities should surely pay off in 20-30~ turns, less if health is needed.

i like forges and in a cannon+rifle rush im pretty sure they will back in time, and the extra happiness is very welcome. not even sure if cannons and rifles can win, mansa is pretty out of control here on deity; so it might go futher.

courthouses are bit more arguable, i will probably only build them on islands with high colonial expense, number of cities and distance maintenance can be overpowered by FIN cost+ glh routes.

 

[Gwaja]

I personally rate forges in the S tier, but that is just me being me. On this map, I think cothons, even with the 100 hammer cost, more than pays for itself. This map has the potential to reap insane benefits just from trade routes, as long as we contain barbarian infestation and AI using Mercantilism.

 

[awost1]

How can I play this? I downloaded it but having trouble getting it to show in Civ. I play from a steam downloaded game if that matters.

 

[Gwaja]

@awost1

On the start up main menu screen, choose "Play as Scenario" instead of "Load Game." You should see the "Seafaring Hannibal" as one of the scenarios available to play.

 

[sampsa]

On this map, I think cothons, even with the 100 hammer cost, more than pays for itself.

But again, that is a bit beside the point - of course it pays back! Imagine how horrible a building would be if it never paid back... But it needs to pay back better than everything else you can do, including building wealth or units. Does it? Depends. As I said, you are whipping away FIN coast so it's close to the worst possible scenario for buildings.

I personally rate forges in the S tier

i like forges and in a cannon+rifle rush

Forges... If you plan to draft those rifles, I'd be very very selective in which cities I'd build this likeable S-tier building. Without -bonuses it's a horrible build, and even with 3 extra it's debatable whether it pays back better than everything else. A forge and a cothon are completely different things in cities like the capital here. Those base- make a huge difference.

 

[Henrik75]

its beautiful

 

[awost1]

I played to about 600 AD and holy is that capital BROKE. Insane start.

I’m a child and I’m nowhere near gunpowder (I’m 2 techs away but still). It seems like I’d didn’t settle my cities quick enough. I got greedy and tried to colossus and glh and lost the colossus.

Map is insanely fun tho.

Oh I went 1N which was super gaming. Dumping all the ocean was cool. I delayed the IW tech for too long.

 

[sampsa]

I’m a child

we are just normal men

 

[sampsa]

Re: Cothon

Spoiler :

Testing whether it's better to whip the cothon asap vs. just working FIN coast. Not going to steal mines from capital.

edit

Results:

Spoiler :

Well, hardly surprising that whipping asap wins quite a lot of as cothon is a very strong building under such circumstances. Slow build takes 17T to finish in which time the whip route is ahead 112/ plus 7,47 saved in maintenance (due to being smaller). Slow build is ahead 26 which at that size equals roughly 40. So it's ~120 vs 40 and in general the former is quite a bit better. Oh in the end the following turns are not completely equal either. Due to size slow build wins a bit because the size bonus for the trade routes starts to kick in.

I'd say it's not disastrous to slow build either (due to for example running caste), but given the choice I'd certainly recommend whipping asap.

I could test building a forge before cothon, but the problem is that the result won't be very conclusive.

 

[awost1]

Is there a whipping guide somewhere? I’m terrible at whipping right now and it’s kind of a big deal.

 

[sampsa]

I think something was written 15 years ago.

My whipping guide: T1 start a build, so that you have some invested. T2 click the whip button. Repeat when necessary. Don't whip away strong tiles!

 

[awost1]

I guess I’m just so conditioned not to whip that I need to decide if I should whip every turn.

 

[sampsa]

Take a screenshot. We need an example to be able to help.

 

[Henrik75]

Had a lot of fun playing this one very differently

Spoiler :

First of all, cothons are fricking insane this map - given the fact I got most of them up in the BCs, combined with GLH, and each trade route being 5 commerce or more, made them pay off VERY quickly.

Had no issues getting cannons by 560AD, had a little trouble producing but thats ok I just 3 pop whipped them everywhere while teching to rifles

Got to rifling at 940AD, used golden age to draft for 7 turns all over the place and quickly compiled an army and took out Mao

Got oxford up and kept the tech going up to 2000 bpt and teched to flight by 1400AD
now building a mega fleet of carriers/transports/destroyers with 30+ planes and tons of cavalry to just crush everything. With air support cavalry are enough to kill everything
P.S. I never left slavery the whole game. 6 pop whipped my airports like a bastard with communism + biology to help with food and prod, then was able to rule the skies and seas.

fairly easy but very fun game, played it quite differently than normal. video will be up in a few days after my shaka game.

 

[Henrik75]

Is there a whipping guide somewhere? I’m terrible at whipping right now and it’s kind of a big deal.

I explain the jist of it on video at this timestamp. for the record cuirassier whips function essentially the same as whipping trebs, galleons, frigates, cannons.

 

[sampsa]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

Yep cothons are very very strong here. So strong I would certainly not build a forges before them. The map is also so giving your cannon date is not very surprising.