[NFP] Secret Societies, working as designed or bug?

[nitedemon]

I have been playing around with the secret societies and found the initiation part kinda wonky

My understanding of how it works is that whenever you do one of the following: finding a wonder, finding a city state, popping a tribal village , destroying a barb camp, you would get invitation to the corresponding secret societies as well as a free governor title. Say if you get invited to the hermetic order, and before you spend a governor title to join the cult you get a newer invitation from the cthulhu cult, then you can now only join the cthulhu cult and there is no way (?) for you to go back to join the hermetic order? So if you come across the cult that you like you should join immediately?

Also out of the four trigger for invitation, destroying a barb camp is almost always the last one to be accomplished, and when I destroy a camp, I get the invitation to the vamp cult but in the governor page it seems to never show up. Am I missing something here? Please help. Thanks!

 

[nitedemon]

grrrr never mind, you can horizontal scroll on the governor screen to find all the invitation... Thats some horrible UI design...

 

[Tuvok694]

Another question on that topic: In my current game I have the plan to join the "voidsingers". Although I discovered quite many goody huts, I never got the popup window for the voidsingers. The other three secret societies are available for me right now but I have not joined one of them. So what happens when there are no more tribal villages left on the map? Will it be impossible to join the voidsingers for the rest of the game?

 

[Kwami]

Another question on that topic: In my current game I have the plan to join the "voidsingers". Although I discovered quite many goody huts, I never got the popup window for the voidsingers. The other three secret societies are available for me right now but I have not joined one of them. So what happens when there are no more tribal villages left on the map? Will it be impossible to join the voidsingers for the rest of the game?

No. If you have enough diplomatic visibility with another player that's already joined the Voidsingers, then you will eventually get an invitation.

 

[Futumch]

They should have stuck circular ">>" buttons on the left and right sides of the advisor window you can click on, instead of some 2 pixel thick dark-grey-on-black scrollbar.

 

[Tuvok694]

No. If you have enough diplomatic visibility with another player that's already joined the Voidsingers, then you will eventually get an invitation.

Thank you, I did not know that there is a connection to diplomatic visiblity.

They should have stuck circular ">>" buttons on the left and right sides of the advisor window you can click on, instead of some 2 pixel thick dark-grey-on-black scrollbar.

Thanks, but I had checked that already.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Thank you, I did not know that there is a connection to diplomatic visiblity.

The way I understand there is a difference between just knowing about the secret society someone else joined (sending a delegation gives enough visibility for this) and getting the chance for an invitation (only when visibility increases to "secret").

 

[Tigranes]

grrrr never mind, you can horizontal scroll on the governor screen to find all the invitation... Thats some horrible UI design...

I don't think it is so horrible. All you have to do is to scroll your mouse wheel. Easy, simple, awesome.

 

[playshogi]

I don't think it is so horrible. All you have to do is to scroll your mouse wheel. Easy, simple, awesome.

UI is not this game's strong point. My mouse wheel is broken and I don't have $15 for a new mouse.

 

[AriochIV]

I don't think it is so horrible. All you have to do is to scroll your mouse wheel. Easy, simple, awesome.

Easy only if you know it's there, which is not obvious by looking at it.

 

[The Technomancer]

UI is not this game's strong point. My mouse wheel is broken and I don't have $15 for a new mouse.

DM me your Venmo or something. I gotcha for a new mouse.

 

[AriochIV]

My mouse wheel is broken and I don't have $15 for a new mouse.

Wow. I've been in that place.

Hang in there, li'l buddy. Just keep loadin' and shootin'.

 

[Kwami]

UI is not this game's strong point. My mouse wheel is broken and I don't have $15 for a new mouse.

Can you click the drag the scroll bar?

 

[Laurana Kanan]

getting the chance for an invitation (only when visibility increases to "secret").

This is the first I've heard of this. Is there confirmation posted somewhere that I could see?

 

[Pfeffersack]

This is the first I've heard of this. Is there confirmation posted somewhere that I could see?

From the civilopedia (the article about secret socities, which is only avilable in games where they are activated):

That alone doesn't say clearly that you can get invitations this way (but the wording "get contact" sounds different to just "knowing about membership"), but in connection with this part of the patchnotes I supect that way:

This game mode adds four powerful and mysterious Secret Societies to the world. To make contact, seek out a Society where its influence might hide: Barbarian Camps, Tribal Villages, Natural Wonders, or City-States. Discovery is not guaranteed, but you are more likely to find a Society that other players have not discovered, or on continents where no Society has yet been discovered. Alternatively, invest in diplomatic visibility to learn about them from other leaders.

Because just "knowing about membership" does clearly not require the level of "secret" visibility.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Thanks, I looked at both of of those after the update and didn't read them that way initially, but I can see how it could be construed that way. It still seems rather ambiguous to me though. I was kind of hoping for someone on CFC, reddit or somewhere who could actually confirm they received an invite after reaching the secret level of visibility from a Civ that had a SS.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Thanks, I looked at both of of those after the update and didn't read them that way initially, but I can see how it could be construed that way. It still seems rather ambiguous to me though. I was kind of hoping for someone on CFC, reddit or somewhere who could actually confirm they received an invite after reaching the secret level of visibility from a Civ that had a SS.

I'm now pretty sure that there is a diplomatic way to get invitations. My current games setup (greatly overcrowded map) lead to a situation where I could only trigger the Owls and HO in the early game - the AI was faster with any hut and before I could take out a barb encampment, everything in my direct neighbourhood was too civilized for barbs to appear. I didn't follow those early invitations, as my plan was the Vamps. A lot later, all out of a sudden I got the Voidsinger invitation. Sadly I didn't save the turn end before as usual, so I was not able to reproduce what was happeming (though I'm sure that no stuff like a city claming a tile with a goody hut caused this). And again a couple of turns later finally the SP came up - and this time I saved I before, so now we can reproduce (just end turn in the attached save; be warned though the interturn with 19 opps takes a bit...)

So while the exact probababilities for this remain unknown (it would be e.g. interesting, if the chance depends on the number of other civs with membership X and "secret visibility" or increase when your diplomatic visibility reaches super secret), my feeling is that your chances to get invitations this way are rather low and you have to be prepared for a long wait then.

 

[Pietato]

A different SS bug, but has anyone tested how vampire base strength is calculated? Merging units does not seem to change it, only building corps/armies.

Also vampires cannot remove their own castle. You need a builder or engineer.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

@Pfeffersack - Hmm, yeah I don't know. The only thing I saw that could of had a hidden trigger was researching Colonialism, but changing it didn't have an effect. There weren't any Barb camps left so that also wasn't a trigger. The two diplo exchanges also didn't seem relevant either. Definitely a conundrum.

*Edit - Something occurred to me. Could it have something to do with the Civs you are allied with? Someone hypothesized that before iirc (maybe you?). On turn 191 (before hitting next turn on your save), you are allied to two Civs (GC & Canada) that belong to SP, that's also the turn the logs says you and China (who is also allied to GC) both discover that specific SS.

A different SS bug, but has anyone tested how vampire base strength is calculated? Merging units does not seem to change it, only building corps/armies.

We discussed the vamp base strength issue starting about here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...iscussion-thread.660504/page-36#post-15851350
It would be noteworthy though if it only gains corps/army strength from hard built rather than merged units.
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Another interesting thing I discovered tonight was that if you're in an alliance with another Civ who belongs to the same SS, you accumulate 0.5 points per turn towards that alliance.

 

[Deadly Dog]

Another question on that topic: In my current game I have the plan to join the "voidsingers". Although I discovered quite many goody huts, I never got the popup window for the voidsingers. The other three secret societies are available for me right now but I have not joined one of them. So what happens when there are no more tribal villages left on the map? Will it be impossible to join the voidsingers for the rest of the game?

For what its worth, I got a voidsinger invitation from popping a meteor strike. I also got the free unit. Meteor strikes also award xp to recon units so they are behaving like tribal villages in all respects including the trigger for Voidsingers SS