Sengoku: The code of honour

[viper275]

I thought we finally had a complete rooster! I will add a note in the initial post then. If we cannot find a replacement by the time you decide to lurk instead of playing, I guess we will use your daimyo as replacement daimyo for the first player who looses his daimyo.

I think we still have a complete roster... for now. But in September I'll have less time. I'm sure there will be one more signup within 2 weeks.

But I totally understand. I cannot prevent you from having a life outside of the SG. Hum. I will contact the local witch to see if she can do something about that.

It would be fun not to have a life outside of SGs but you have to. But I wonder if fbouthil can somehow prevent that.

Family Member: Come over here!
Me: I can't.
Family Member: Why not?
Me: There's a forcefield around me that I can't get out of. I'm stuck at the computer.
Family Member: Oh. Okay. Never mind, then.

 

[bed_head7]

Are we on the river if we settler in place? I can never tell.

 

[scoutsout]

Are we on the river if we settler in place? I can never tell.

lurker's comment:

@bed_head: Here's a little trick for spotting riverside tiles: put your mouse pointer over the tile, right click, and choose "terrain info", to see the combination of food, shields, and gold. If the tile produces 1 gold, it's next to a river.

I'm enjoying the Jumpmasters game with you and Detlef... wish I'd signed up for this. (I've never played this scenario) but I'm looking forward to lurking this one.

@fbouthil: You impressed me with this bit:

It is now time to discuss opening moves.

Discussion in SGs is a really Good Thing. You guys are on your way to a well played, fun game. Good Luck!

 

[fbouthil]

@bed_head7: If you want to know if the starting place has access to fresh water so that a city on that tile won't require an aqueduc, well it won't. Not only is it next to a river, but it is also next to a lake!

@scoutscout: There is still an open place if you want it! Viper275 said he would prefer lurking this game since he won't be able to play in september, so he will play only if we cannot find someone to replace him! As for the fact that you did not play this scenario before, I am sure everyone in the rooster will be more than happy to give you pointers about the specifics of this scenario. I would be more than happy to have a full rooster.
So, please sign in!

And yes, I do a LOT of discussion in my SG. I sometimes quote the obvious as I am new to SG and do not know what is commonly known and what is not. I prefer to write too much than to forget to say something that may be important.

 

[scoutsout]

@scoutscout: There is still an open place if you want it! Viper275 said he would prefer lurking this game

fbouthil <---grabs scout's arm and threatens to twist it...

scoutsout <--- ooh!, ow! That might hurt! OkayOkayOkay...quit twisting my arm, I'm in.

Preferences on my little Daimyo guy.... scout (hehehe "Scouts - OUT!) scout around with him and play whack-a-barb with him... or maybe go find us our first enem... er... "contact". No guts, no glory. No combat, no promotions.

 

[bed_head7]

I have actually used that little trick before, with the rick click, but wasn't really thinking here. And I realized we didn't need the river to get out of building an aqueduct. I was thinking more along the lines that we get an extra commerce in the tile we always use if we are next to a river. Also, scoutsout, how have you never played this scenario? The first thing I did when I got Conquests was play Sengoku, though I can't remember which tribe. Kiech, I wouldn't mind if you did a little scouting with my Daimyo either as long as it kept out of reach of barbs. But while one has his own Daimyo, there is no using the Daimyo of others, is there?

 

[Detlef Richter]

Welcome in scoutsout. So it looks that we have no chance in our competition, because of this tacticel nuke warmonger scout (beware of this 'I have an idea' ).

 

[fbouthil]

Scoutsout, you are in! @Keich: please rename viper275 daimyo's accordingly.

As for directives concerning your daimyo, the rule I made said you can ask the current player to move it to a specific location. No attack and no vague orders, like scout in that direction (He can defend himself, of course).

But since the game has not been started, we could chance the rule if you prefer. I would prefer not since it would remove the feeling of playing your own personal daimyo.

Also remember that we are on a random map so some specifics of the Sengoku scenario map do not apply anymore. There won't be lots of barb camps early in the game. Some terrains are back in the map, like jungles, marshes, floodplains, desert, tundra. Lux are back in patches so we won't be able to grad all lux with our first 5 cities.

 

[Kiech]

Excellent! I have been wanting to play a war-scenario with you ScoutScout, welcome aboard!

Wow, I am getting a few more actions then I planned on with the daiymos', though. I will try not to let you guys die! LOL!

I will start this soon.

 

[scoutsout]

@bed_head: I gave this scenario a shot for the first time last night.... took my little Daimyo guy out to play whack-a-barb against a camp on a mountain, and got him killed. Didn't catch on that the little Daimyo guys are part of the "Regicide" thing, and I also forgot about the Barbarian combat bonus at Emperor level...suffered the fastest humiliating conquest defeat I have ever had.

Let's hope my efforts in this game are a little more fruitful.

@Detlef: I'm sure you'll get your share of the points... as you saw in Ankka's RBC Ottoman thing, I like to do setups too.

@fbouthil: Are we playing 10 turn sets? Let's see here... making instructions specific...but flexible enough so the unit gets used...how about this:

Take my Daimyo, and move him straight west to scout and make contact with another civ. The player may deviate up to 2 tiles off the westward course to take advantage of terrain or pop a goody hut. You may also deviate from the westward course to avoid trespassing in enemy territory. Don't attack any barb camps on mountains, please. Barbs on flatland or hills are fair game for attacking with my Daimyo... as long as they are within 2 tiles of that westward course.

Will those instructions meet your standards?

 

[bed_head7]

Well, I suppose my Daimyo will be jealous of all the travelling being done by others, but I guess he can just stay at home for the time being.

 

[Kiech]

The save.

(0)Pregame: We are standing on an river square. I think the other daiymo's just want to find a town for themselves - a home, so thats what they are going to do. Rename scoutscout's diaymo. Set sci to metal-working.

Daiymo fbouthil wishes to oversee the world from the mountain, and spies a cow very close to us and another goodie hut...and another mountain (must climb!!!)

Daiymo Scout makes a rush for the new goodie hut. Deilf Richter goes with him, hoping scouts 'plan' doesn't backfire on him.

My Daiymo takes the hut next to us: 25g.

Daiymo Bedhead moves south, and finds some beautiful tundra...

Despite the 1 square of tundra, I move the settler SE, to grab a total of 4 bonus grass and the cow.

Having played the original scenario only once, I wonder what our civ-bonuses are...lets see: nothing. Excellent. Well, at least none of the other civs have the same.

(1)July 1450: Not a lot of build choices, so we start on peasant warriors. Scout pops a map, finding another hut - and takes off in a sprint for it. Fbouthil finds yellow boarders. Richter decides to walk along the river - not wanting to follow Scouts chaotic path any longer - and finds some jade. Kiech finds the Miyako, along with a large number of dyes, and makes contact. Nothing to trade yet, heh.

Sci can go to 100% metal working in 9.

(2)Jan, 1451: Richter finds another hut, and wishes his family had learned the ways of exploration to better meet these villagers, but walks in with open arms to them. IT WORKS! Richter finds the Ainu tribe has the secrets of Mysticism, and learns the wisdom. Learning the of the great success that Richter had with the Ainu, bedhead spots a small Ainu tribe as well, and, as Richter did, walks in with open arms: They are backwards, but share thier knowledge of the reigon with him, including the location of some dyes. Fbouthil decides to meet the 'yellow' people east of our lands, and goes to greet them. He stands dutifuly outside of their boarders while waiting for an emmisary to appear.

(3)Jul, 1451: Fbouthil meets the Hojo dynasty, and trades Mysticism +11g for Pottery. ScoutScout, rushes into the small Ainu camp to greet them...and is welcomed by Blades! Apparently, they wish that no one disturb thier jade, and prepare to attack! Kiech meets the Date dynasty, but they are backwards.

IBT: Scout slices open the hearts of one Ainu, while the other two run away south, towards our boarders. Scout notes that he probably wouldn't have been hurt if he had just sliced out the warriors heart right away, instead of playing with him: this knowledge gives him vetran status.

(4)Jan, 1452: Scout takes a charging run at the fleeing Ainu warrior, and remembers to slice FIRST, then play, he is unscathed. Kiech finds some more jade, and Richter sees something he has never heard of before: A volcano. Bedhead comes back with the same information.

(5)Jul, 1452: ScoutScout learns that cutting out the heart first doesn't always work, and wonders how he might improve upon his sword. He decides to start for home to oversee the the capital. Richter the explorer spies some incence, but finds he has no way to scale the volcano, ah well. An ashigaru was to be trained next turn, but our people decide to work instead on a granary. Kiech finds a hut.

(6)Jan, 1453: Kiech tries the tried and true method of walking into the Ainu camp, arms open: and gets some useless maps. Fbouthil finds another camp. Bedhead decides to head for home.

IBT: Our mine FINALLY completes.

(7)Jul, 1453: Fbouthil moves towards the Ainu camp, and in a bout of incredible diplomacy, scores us the secrets of the Alphabet, and finds the end of the world. Kiech spyies some dark green boarders to the west.

(8)Jan, 1454: Kiech meets the Takeda people. They are backwards, but have some furs already hooked up.

(9)Jul, 1454: Scout makes it home, and rests. Sci to 20% to grab metal working in 1. Date and Hojo have it already.

IBT: We complete Metal Working, and move on to Sword-Smithing, as directed by Scout.

(10)Jan, 1455: Bedhead makes it home, but then leaves again to map out a spot close to our capital. Sci to 90% to get SS in 20. The road on the bonus grass is done, so our worker moves towards the cow, we get to start working it next turn.

IBT: Boarders expand, engulfing the cow.

(11)Jul, 1455: Kiech pops a hut, and forgetting ALL thought of diplomacy, is attacked! He also spyies grey boarders and incence.

IBT: Kiech nearly takes a fall! But the other two Ainu don't attack.

(12)Jan, 1456: Kiech moves onto a hill for defence and healing. Scout leaves the capital, to take a better look around.

(13)Jul, 1456: The Mogami greet Kiech, but have nothing useful to trade. Kiech fortifes to heal.

(14)Jan, 1457:

(15)Jul, 1457: Ready for more, Kiech attacks an Ainu - and is hurt, no promotion.

IBT: Kiech remembers that 'cut out the heart FIRST' lesson he heard from Scout, and tries it! Promotion.

(16)Jan, 1458: Done scouting, Scout moves back home.

IBT: Granary completes, start settler

(17)Jul, 1458: Satisfied, Beadhead heads home.

(18)Jan, 1459: Richter the explorer decides to head home. Cow mining complete, start road.

(19)Jul, 1459: Having satisfactory mapped out the Eastern coast, Fbouthil heads home.

(20)Jan, 1460: Scout makes it home. Richter, Fbouthil, and Bedhead can make it home within Richter's turns. My daiymo is so far away now...he won't make it home for a while.

Postgame: I hope I didn't go to far moving the Daiymos around, but we have 2 Vetran daiymos now, and in the tech lead. I don't know were to put the settler yet. The jade isn't going to be needed until the next age, but gives a lot of gold/shields. We need to start up our war machine quickly, and I think the Date people should be the first to go, followed by the Hojo. Too bad Catapults are many techs down the road. All of the wonders in this game are awesome. Lets try to get as many as possible.

My Daiymo: Should rest, then work his way back to the town via the black areas. Avoid any barbs, as I don't need to promote till the next upgrade.

Roster: The (v) is your promotion level. The number is how many hearts you have(plus yours!)
(v 3)Daimyo Oda Keich - Out exploring other lands.
Daimyo Oda Detlef Richter 'The Explorer' - Up.
Daimyo Oda fbouthil - On Deck
Daimyo Oda bed_head7
(v 3)Daimyo Oda scoutscout

Early wonders:
The Great Wall: Gives us walls and double vs barbs - doesn't expire
The Oracle: Doubles Temples - doesn't expire
Art of War: Barracks everywhere, and greater chance of leaders
Izumo Shrine: (small) Extra food, shields, and gold on water tiles + 2 happy faces in the town its built.

Upgrade paths:
1 - 2.2.2 Starting Daiymo
2 - 3.3.2 Zone of Control
3 - 4.4.2
4 - 5.5.2 Blitz
5 - 6.6.2 Amphibous Assult
6 - 7.7.2 ATAR
7 - 8.8.2 Assasin
8 - 9.9.2
9 - 10.10.2 Enslave to Samurai
10 - 11.11.2 Detect invisible
All of the abilities stack.

Wait for the pictures, please!

Edit: Added Daiymo kills.

 

[Kiech]

OK, since I don't know how to make the info boxes go away on my screen, the SS will have to be divided up a lot.

Looking at the Stone Archers, they have an active and passive bombard. I say we get a bunch of them ready.

Going from the Far East (this game DOES wraparound, btw) to the west:

Fbouthil's location near the Hojo lands:

Scout, bedhead, and Richter are here:

Richter inspecting the Date lands:

The Takeda people:

Kiech and the Mogami:

 

[scoutsout]

Nice start, and enjoyable reading!

 

[fbouthil]

Hum. I see that the rule about using other player's daimyo has been completely ignored by both Keich and Scoutsout, so let's forget about it. The idea was that the only active daimyo was the one of the current player. I only allowed moving the other player's daimyo to prevent using most of your turns to move your daimyo towards the action.

Since every daimyo can now attack on every player's turn, there is no point of delaying the competitions. All titles, except Ninja master, are now more a statistic than a real competition between players.

I see my suggestions about NOT researching toward invention has also been completely ignored. By looking at the other civs, I can see that they ALL have metal working, so it would have been easy to trade for it. I think the same thing will be true about sword-smithing and invention.

On the other hand, nice stories Keich! And good exploration!

Suggestions: Mining the cow means a 8t settler factory. By irrigating it instead, we can have a 6t settler factory. That is not as important as in the standard game because we do not have much space to grow.

As for civ-bonuses, all civs have none. There are no UU for a golden age. Golden age comes from building ANY wonder.

I also think we should build a few towns and hook up iron for bushi before starting to think about conquests. Still, we can use our daimyos to harass our neighbours by attacking their ashigarus and capturing some of their first settlers, etc.

 

[scoutsout]

My apologies for messing up your intent with the use of the daimyo. I thought you wanted us to give specific instructions so that a player simply wouldn't play fast and loose with the Daimyo of others...

I'll take the blame for messing up that part of the variant.

As for the scorekeeping... the only thing that has been killed so far is barbs, and we could simply not count the barbs if you'd like to restore the competition part.

I had a thought on further instructions with my Daimyo...let it escort the "regular" rank Daimyo of another as a bodyguard to go hunt barbs and get combat experience (promotion). Just a passing thought.

I also thought I might play with some dotmaps this evening if you'd like.

 

[Kiech]

Hum. I see that the rule about using other player's daimyo has been completely ignored by both Keich and Scoutsout, so let's forget about it. The idea was that the only active daimyo was the one of the current player. I only allowed moving the other player's daimyo to prevent using most of your turns to move your daimyo towards the action.

Since every daimyo can now attack on every player's turn, there is no point of delaying the competitions. All titles, except Ninja master, are now more a statistic than a real competition between players.

We can still do this if you want. I didn't want to handicap us by not knowing the lands and missing out on the huts. It seemed everyone wanted me to scout around quite a bit, so it didn't appear to be a problem. Why don't we simply start the competition after the first round is up? By then, we should be in a good spot to start up plently of wars.

I see my suggestions about NOT researching toward invention has also been completely ignored. By looking at the other civs, I can see that they ALL have metal working, so it would have been easy to trade for it. I think the same thing will be true about sword-smithing and invention.

This was a gamble I took, hoping to pop a few huts. Luckily it worked out for the better.

On the other hand, nice stories Keich! And good exploration!

Thank you!

Suggestions: Mining the cow means a 8t settler factory. By irrigating it instead, we can have a 6t settler factory. That is not as important as in the standard game because we do not have much space to grow.

Irrigating that cow will require us to irrigate 2 squares, it didn't seem prudent.

Golden age comes from building ANY wonder.

Good to know.

I also think we should build a few towns and hook up iron for bushi before starting to think about conquests. Still, we can use our daimyos to harass our neighbours by attacking their ashigarus and capturing some of their first settlers, etc.

Hopefully the iron is near...in the Japan scenario, there were a LOT more resourses around the area. Here, we may have to fight for it. Good thing the Daiymo's don't need any iron to upgrade.

 

[fbouthil]

Does every one agree to start the competition after the first round? I want to make sure everyone agrees before making another change. I guess I am a very bad host, not being able to make myself clear from the start.

I like scoutsout's idea of trying to get every daimyo to veteran status and escorting regular daimyo with veteran for protection.

This was a gamble I took, hoping to pop a few huts. Luckily it worked out for the better.

Keich, you seem to have a trick I do not know. How does tech discovered by popping huts affect our current research? Was metal working less likely to be popped by huts? Note that in this game, we are ahead in tech anyway, but I would really like to know your trick!

 

[bed_head7]

Yeah, it would be nice if the competition started after we'd all played once, and hopefully we are all vets.

 

[scoutsout]

I guess I am a very bad host, not being able to make myself clear from the start.

I disagree; I think you are an excellent host. And I think this is going to be a fun SG.

Keich, you seem to have a trick I do not know. How does tech discovered by popping huts...

I could be wrong, but I think his idea was to research what we needed militarily, and pop trade-worthy techs from huts... in any event, we should be able to adjust/re-think our strategy next time we discover a tech. I might have easily taken the same path... not really having a good feel for this scenario. I think I'll have another go at a personal version of it after some turns in Jumpmasters tonight. (Need to go make a copy of bed_head's log in that one to have for reference...)