Sengoku: The code of honour

[fbouthil]

Good! I was actually feeling bad skipping Scoutsout's turn after all the suggestions he made lately.

I must admit that "thread aging" thing is kind a getting on my nerves. As a programmer, it seems easy to keep a thread in the list of new subscribed threads until it is actually visited. You only need to compare the date of the last visit of a thread with the date of the last post.

BTW, I am not really mad about it. I just really like the gripe smilly.

 

[scoutsout]

Pre-flight check... scroll through our cities.. I'm not sure why we've got irrigated grass at Tsuchiuru. Do we have some automated workers? Oh wait - that's a captured city.

IBT - Something got killed at Miyako, but it wasn't a Daimyo.
Map Making comes in, queue up CoL. Seto Bushi>Bushi | Ichinomiya Bushi>Settler | Gifu Peasant Worker>Worker Tajimi Catapult>Catapult.

Turn 1 (July 1500) Move D.O. Kiech to the capitol. D.O. Scout kills a 2/4 Date Crossbow south of Miyako. D.O. fbouthil follows.

IBT - not much

Turn 2 (Jan 1501) fbouthil and scout move towards Morioka with a stone crossbow.

IBT - Nagoya Bushi>Settler

Turn 3 (Jul 1501) There is a Takeda Shogun-1 wandering through Date lands with a regular Ashigaru as an escort. Since it is too early to start a war with the Takeda, I think I will try to position the next player to kill it. On second thought...bad idea... but everybody make a mental note that there will be an enemy Daimyo in that green town to the south of us.

Wake up bed_head's Daimyo... dang... he's still a regular. There is a solitary regular Date crossbow N-NW of Miyako. I know this is poor form to attack using another's Daimyo without permission, but I try to get him promoted in a low-risk combat. I posess bed_head's Daimyo, and flawlessly kill the stone crossbow. But bed_head's daimyo apparently did not learn anything from the engagement, and he fails to promote.

I move 2 stone crossbows and 2 Bushi towards Hirosaki.

Turn 3 (Jan 1502) D.O. Scout kills an Ashigaru at Morioka. Two Bushi make short work of two Ashigaru. I lose a stone crossbow to a third Ashigaru, but the second crossbow kills it, Revealing Daimyo Date Masamune! By this stage of the game I've started assembling some workers into small stacks of 3, which is generally more efficient...

IBT - The Date request and audience, and are rebuffed. Ogaki Catapult>worker

Turn 4 (Jul 1502) Time for a little trading...
Masonry to Ogami for 20g+WM
Wheel to Takeda for Ancestor Worship.
Code of Laws+WM for our WM+170g

Oh man this is a big world...and we need some contacts for tech trading... Change Takefu to galley, and organize a forest chop.

I lose 1 Bushi attacking a stone crossbow in the mountains outside Mutsu.

IBT - Nagoya Settler>Bushi (We will need settlers to replace auto-razed cities.)
Seto Bushi>Bushi | ichinomiya Settler>Bushi | Kariya Stone Crossbow>Bushi

Turn 5 (Jan 1503)
The Otomo have uncovered the secrets of Shinto Precepts. Gift Ancestor worship to the Mogami to get somebody else working on that tech to lower the price.

D.O. Scout whacks the enemy Daimyo at Hirosaki, and the city is ours.

IBT - Toki Bushi>Spearman

Turn 6 (July 1503) tempted to swap Nagoya to Archives...Ichinomiya needs a border expansion to get 2 Bonus Grass tiles...swap to achives. D.O. Scout whacks a Date crossbow, fails promotion. The Otomo will sell us Shinto Precepts for WM+140g+15gpt. I decide to wait.

IBT - Ogaki Worker>Worker

Turn 7 - (Jan 1504) As I suspected, The Otomo sold Shinto Precepts to someone else. I now buy it off the Takeda for our World Map. The Otomo now have Currency, which I buy for WM+140g+6gpt.
After taking a hit from a crossbow, D.O. Scout whacks one Ashigaru.

IBT- nada

Turn 8 (July, 1504) I lost a Grandmaster level Crossbow to a Date Crossbow. Dangit. Some Bushi I sent to the north make short work of the garrison at mutsu, and I take a screenie to show you guys the value of the "combat settlers" I built.

IBT - We've got a Hojo settler pair trespassing...

Turn 9 (Jan 1505) Positioning Keich and bed_head for a follow on campaign in the south.

IBT - we equip some more peasant workers, build a catapult, and get our first boat in the water.

Turn 10 (April 1505) Bushi whacks an Ashigaru at Morioka. D.O. Scout whacks an Ashigaru.

D.O. Keich and D.O. bed_head advance into Date territory, accompanied by 2 Catapults, 2 Bushi, and a Stone Crossbow. D.O. Scout and fbouthil retire from the field, leaving a 3/4 Bushi to join the advancing forces.

After Action Review:

In preparing this log for posting, it looks like I accidentally took an extra turn. I really should use the fingers on both hands when I count. If you guys want me to play just 9 turns next go-round, that'll suit. And fbouthil, if you want to deduct one Ashigaru from my kill total below that would probably be fair as well...

I got us some techs.

Scout's Daimyo kills:
Ashigaru: 4
Stone Crossbows: 2
Enemy Daimyo: 1

bed_head's Daimyo got a kill against a stone crossbow, trying to get him promoted to Vet status. My reasoning in the log, if that offends, I apologize.

We have 2 "combat settlers" on the former site of Mutsu, one can found a town on the rockpile next turn. I sent our Daimyo to the Southwest, a smalle gamble that there are no enemy Daimyo in that last Date town in the north. There are some Bushi and some crossbows up there. I'm betting that town will auto-raze and simply need to be replaced. It's a good idea to have a few combat settlers on hand in this scenario, because when you kill the last enemy Daimyo any cities from that tribe will auto-raze right then.

We have a galley in the water that needs to sail west to make contact with the other tribes... and there are several. We can't trade techs with them if we don't meet them.

When Construction comes in we should probably start evaluating our towns for a possible palace pre-builds for the Great Library somewhere... though this is not imminent.

A little bit of infrastructure (markets and libraries) will help in our core cities.

If you are using Mapstat you will still need to check Diplomacy every single turn. Mapstat doesn't recognize these scenario techs. With all the civs in this scenario, this game can get away from us if we don't do some tech-trading.

> > The Save < <

 

[bed_head7]

I didn't have any problem with your use of my Daimyo. I appreciate any use that could get mine to a veteran, since that boosts combat odds by so much. And MapStat showed techs to me. I saw that everyone had Sojutsu on MapStat. Maybe you don't have the latest version? Although I hadn't heard anything about scenario changes.

 

[fbouthil]

Wow! I am starting to understand what Detlef Richter said about having no chances of beating Scoutsout in the competitions!

I won't count the kill on turn 11, and bed_head7 kill either as it was not a defensive kill. I understand why you tried to make him a veteran as it is a bit upsetting having a regular daimyo.

Keich, you are up!

 

[scoutsout]

@fbouthill: I like to whack stuff. I'm looking forward to the upgrade that gives our Daimyo blitz capability.

@bed_head: I'll check my version of Dianthus' utility. It wouldn't surprise me if he's updated it recently. Thanks.

@Keich: if it looks like you will be able to finish off the Date on your turns, consider moving my Daimyo and Detlef's eastward... I think we ought to go ahead and finish the Hojo off before our forces extend too much further westward. Don't send more than one or two Bushi with our Daimyo, as we already have 3 Bushi and a Stone Crossbow in the east.

My thinking is that under variant rules (must use Daimyo to kill Daimyo) we don't want to let our Daimyo get too far to the west with Hojo Daimyo that need to be killed.

Of course...that plan is subject to approval by fbouthil and Detlef...

 

[Kiech]

Got it! Hmm...how many kills can my dayimo get...

 

[scoutsout]

Got it! Hmm...how many kills can my dayimo get...

If you're going after Ashigaru, several. And I think I saw the Date shuffle a few stone crossbows in there as I was withdrawing my daimyo. Those are easy kills... But be careful! Stone Crossbows get a freeshot. My advice: Bombard with the cats...and consider leading with a Bushi, then attack with your Daimyo. My guess is that if you let the bushi absorb the crossbow freeshot, your daimyo will stay healthier longer...and finish off a Date Daimyo, rather than being forced to retreat and heal. Don't let your Daimyo (move 2) outrun the rest of the troops, and you'll be fine.

 

[fbouthil]

Of course...that plan is subject to approval by fbouthil and Detlef...

I would tend to agree with your plan, but doesn't the whole team have the right to approve or not?

If there is still only 2 Hojo cities, I guess Detlef Richter should be able to crush them completely. In that case, I should still be on the W front against the next civ, Takeda IIRC.

Does anyone think we should build TGWall or is it too early to build a wonder? I think the best time for a GA is right after the switch to feudalism, before the other civs get a better defending unit than spearman.

 

[scoutsout]

I would tend to agree with your plan, but doesn't the whole team have the right to approve or not?

Well... you're the team leader, and Detlef would have to implement the plan... so you two would hold the "veto" votes, if you will.

...and yes, the Takeda would be the logical next target...

Great Wall isn't bad...right now we've got a market build going in one city and a Library (Archives) build going in another...so I think it's a little early to build a wonder just yet. Some of our cities still need some worker turns too...

 

[Detlef Richter]

Thats what i wanna have done since all the time... V E T O ... no, not really. But i love it.
If i understand the rules right:

I for me and at my turn, can kill what i wanna kill (have to kill). All together with my sniper (I think it's scoutsout or perhaps one of the others).
With the rest of us, i can only move to somewhere lands or a declared destination. Without attacking, only defending. So all approvals can be done if the RNG god wants.

 

[fbouthil]

I am not sure what you mean exactly by sniper. We talked about bodyguards, meaning your daimyo moves with another daimyo so that if your daimyo is wounded, the other would protect him.

What I thought originally was that the only thing you could do with the daimyo of other players was to move them where they asked. They cannot initiate attacks, but can defend against enemy attacks.

It was modified so that you can move the daimyo of other players as you see fit. Of course, as for every SG, discussions and suggestions are wellcome, especially about what to do with those daimyo.

Scoutsout talked about pairing daimyos for bodyguard duties. I do not think we stuck to it as any unit moving with a daimyo will be a bodyguard. I used some daimyo as scouts to spot approaching enemy units by moving them to mountains near borders.

I think the most important thing is to put the daimyo of the next player in a favorable position for his turn. Keeping that in mind, Scoutsout suggested to get rid of the Hojo and that would mean moving your daimyo near their borders so that you could attack them.

Remember that enemy daimyos can only be attacked by your own daimyo although they can be bombarded. Once we get ronins and ninjas, they can assassinate enemy daimyos as well.

Is that clear Detlef Richter?

 

[scoutsout]

I think the most important thing is to put the daimyo of the next player in a favorable position for his turn.

I agree 110% with this. Each player needs to consider where the next player's daimyo (and the bodyguard) need to go before the end of his turns. That's why I advanced D.O. Keich and D.O. bed_head one tile into into Date territory on my last turn, so they could go straight into combat. If the stupid catapults hadn't been so sluggish, they'd have been next to the city.

Keeping that in mind, Scoutsout suggested to get rid of the Hojo and that would mean moving your daimyo near their borders so that you could attack them.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I think that will finish the Hojo, and give Detlef some good kills.

Remember that enemy daimyos can only be attacked by your own daimyo although they can be bombarded. Once we get ronins and ninjas, they can assassinate enemy daimyos as well.

If you look closely at my log, you'll note that my Daimyo went from one city to another to finish off the enemy Daimyo that turned out to be the last defender in the Date city that I captured...and that was the reason. We should all get some enemy Daimyo kills... we've got a ways to go before we get ninja and ronin.

 

[Kiech]

Pre-flight: Everything looks good. I don't like the Hojo settler in our area...but we can deal with it later.

IBT: Date crossbowman takes down a bushi.

Jul, 1505: Lots of undefended cities...move some troops around.

Oct, 1505: The troops reach Morioka, and can attack next turn. Seeing an peasant on top of the stack, My diaymo waltzes in, and slices out his heart with a spoon easily.

Jan, 1506: 3 defenders in the town...should be fun! Hmm...at least 3 defenders in the northern date town as well...I lose one bushi up north, and kill 2 off. Down south we peck off some hp with our pults, and send in the team. 1 bushi kills peasant, bedhead kills a stone crossbow and promotes! I send bedhead in again, hoping for a promotion vs a 1hp peasant, but he doesn't get it. Now there is a worker on top of the town...guess there is a king there. Here I go! I kill the leader easily, we take the city, and 2 workers.

IBT: The Saito have completed the Oracle in Tonami.

April, 1506: We move troops around and rest a bit. I think I can take the northen date land next turn.

I must stop here, as I have a VERY important question: Let's say that -hypothetically- we lose 2 Daiymos, 2 catapults, a crossbowman, and 2-3 bushi because a city we JUST TOOK flipped even though there was only 1 measly citizen in the town. This is all hypothetical, of course. But is this something we would re-load, or roll with? I only ask because I am curious what we should do in this potentially hypotheical situation, not that it hypothetically happened, of course.

 

[scoutsout]

I must stop here, as I have a VERY important question: Let's say that -hypothetically- we lose 2 Daiymos, 2 catapults, a crossbowman, and 2-3 bushi because a city we JUST TOOK flipped even though there was only 1 measly citizen in the town. This is all hypothetical, of course. But is this something we would re-load, or roll with? I only ask because I am curious what we should do in this potentially hypotheical situation, not that it hypothetically happened, of course.[/i]

We roll with it. "Reloading" is generally regarded as cheating, and sticking to your guns and avoiding this practice is one step you need to take to really improve your game. My position on culture flips is a "matter of record" in at least one GOTM discussion thread. I hate them, but I accept them as part of the game.

If you look through the spoilers for GOTM31 (the France game) you'll see one of my "Scout's Ouch" posts, in which I lost an ARMY to an Iroquois culture flip. If you dig through Bede1 (a long-completed SG) you will find a point in which I lost a BUNCH of troops (including a Cavalry Army) to a culture flip in a size 1 town that had a single happy citizen. That one flip stalled an entire campaign.

The best way to deal with culture flips is to post a minimal garrison in recently conquered towns, put strong troops outside the town, and simply re-take it after it flips. The best way to take this lesson to heart is to deal with the pain...

 

[fbouthil]

I agree, we roll with it. I agree that Scoutsout tactics in case of flip is sound, but I must admit that I rarely stick to it. It may be a bad tactic, but as soon that all my troops are healed, they head for the next town. I also consult CrpMapStats and my troops heal in conquered cities when I have enough troops (which is probably not the case here).

Interesting situation though. Taking cities from the Date who have high culture, we cannot starve the city (size 1) or rush culture (despotism). You seem to have enough troops to finish the Date in your turns which would stop any chances of flips to them. I think you have an extra settler that could settle at or near the last Date city since it will be destroyed. Have fun destroying them.

BTW, the variant I suggested was that you DO NOT attack with the daimyo of other players. Please stick to it.

Since you will probably finish the Date, I suggest you move Detlef Richter so that he can attack Hojo on his turns. You could even DoW on Hojo on your turn 9 or so and move Detlef Richter next to a town so he can attack it with his daimyo on his preturn if you feel like it.

 

[scoutsout]

You could even DoW on Hojo on your turn 9 or so and move Detlef Richter next to a town so he can attack it with his daimyo on his preturn if you feel like it.

IIRC, there were 3 Bushi and a stone crossbow in our eastern-most town that could also be used against the Hojo. and if Keich can finish of the Date quickly enough, he could use his daimyo to whack that Hojo settler pair and get another kill...

 

[Detlef Richter]

Yes, this sounds good. I need some fighting. Have we something like catapults right now?

 

[bed_head7]

Yes, the tech for catapults has been researched, and if I remember correctly I started building two of them, so we should have at least a couple at this point.

 

[scoutsout]

Yes, the tech for catapults has been researched, and if I remember correctly I started building two of them, so we should have at least a couple at this point.

We may have one or two more in the build queue...but we do have at least those two that JD built.

Turn 10 (April 1505) ...D.O. Keich and D.O. bed_head advance into Date territory, accompanied by 2 Catapults, 2 Bushi, and a Stone Crossbow.

 

[fbouthil]

Hello Keich! Are you there? It has been 2 and a half days since your last post and 5 days since your got it, are you having some kind of computer problems?

As I already said, this is the first SG I started, so I do not know how long I am supposed to wait before I do something more drastic like skipping Keich's turn or something like that. I would prefer not having to do that.

I someone knows the rules about that, I would really like to know. Otherwise, I guess I will give 24h for Keich to answer this post by at least saying if and when he expects to finish his turns. Of course, if Keich is having problems with his computer, maybe we have been waiting for too long already for no reasons.