Serfdom/Slavery

[necrolyte]

Is it just me, or are these civics only mediocre? Buffing worker production is nice, but not worth switching civics for it seems. Same with Slavery. Would anyone also think its nice if Slavery added 1 gold production to plantations or something?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Slavery is one of the most useful civics. There's no other way to rush production until you get Democracy and you can turn angry workers into hammers.
Serfdom is pretty useless. When I need to improve my tiles faster I'll just train or kidnap more workers.

 

[drkodos]

Is it just me, or are these civics only mediocre?

Slavery is one of my favorite civics. Whipping production and keeping population under happiness/health limits is vital.


I'm not as good with my timing as I would like (going from x+1 to x-1), but i'm learning.

 

[tymmail]

Slavery is very useful not for its '1 gold', but the ability to population rushing, especially in early game when happiness is a problem and cannot support large population happily.

 

[tombeef]

Serfdom is a good war time civic, it allows you to rebuild improvements that may have been destroyed, or to change tile improvements quickly from a captured city.

Slavery is cheap and effective, you really can't go wrong with it.

 

[Pantastic]

Slavery is an awsome civic, I pop into it pretty much ASAP then often stay in it until emancipation. When a city goes over its population max, I don't have to support the unahppy guy - a quick whip and the city is happier plus has finished making something. When I see a knight ready to pop a city defended by only an old archer, a quick whip will give me a pikeman to stop them.

I agree that serfdom is pretty weak, I pretty much only use it for a creative civ where you can switch civics at the drop of a hit.

 

[mike p]

Serfdom makes Spiritual a stronger trait. You can whip all your cities and then revolt to serfdom while they grow back. Until you need to whip again, your workers work faster. But it's not a civic I've ever used unless I was spiritual and it was free to revolt in and out of serfdom.

 

[Older than Dirt]

I do not understand the reasoning, if any, behind calling a civic "Slavery" in which one kills off perfectly useful property to build improvements. What is taking place appears to be more a form of wicked capitalism. As opined by Ovid, slaves were to be thought of as tools and the unproductive ones were to be killed. Gee, wasn't paganism great! If you had to be a slave during Roman times, best have a Jewish master if you don't mind being circumcised(since the Torah has limits on treatment of slaves).

 

[GIO888]

I always switch to Slavery ASAP, for the keeping city pop under control AND rushing improvements - Serfdom is cool too, think of it like all your Workers are turned into Indian Fast Workers overnight.

Then again, I get away from Slavery as soon as I can because it's morally repugnant to me, so a few games I've been toasted for being "illogical" with my Civic change timings!

 

[actionmedia]

I realy don't understand why some players prefer to deal with red faces trough whiping. To do that you simply need to whip at least 2 population for one red face and not growing back before thost 10 turns of unhappiness are gone. Why would you do that? Why would you give up to that extra production or extra commerce?

I prefer to keep my cities at their limit by building workers or settlers, or by asignig specialists.

I whip only if it is necesary.

 

[gunkulator]

Slavery is awesome for your GP city. In order to hire specialists, you need improvements which your low hammer GP city is ill equipped to provide. Whipping is just what you need.

I have only ever made use of Serfdom with Spirtual civs. The best time to use it is after you discover railroad.

 

[Howitzah]

Is it just me, or are these civics only mediocre? Buffing worker production is nice, but not worth switching civics for it seems. Same with Slavery. Would anyone also think its nice if Slavery added 1 gold production to plantations or something?

Slavery definately doesn't need any changes, its my favorite civic in that category; if I wasn't practically forced out of it, I would probably keep it forever.

Slavery makes high food/low production cities viable in the early game. Example: I had an awesome start in terms of food in a previous game. I was able to grow from size 8 to size 12 in just a handful of turns, on Marathon, but the production there was horrible. Thanks to Slavery I built a Library, Granary, Courthouse, Walls, Barracks, Lighthouse, and a few other buildings in under 25 turns. Mediocre indeed.

As for Serfdom.. yeah, I don't use it very much. I'm too spoiled on Slavery.

 

[pholkhero]

I do not understand the reasoning, if any, behind calling a civic "Slavery" in which one kills off perfectly useful property to build improvements.

i think it's that since you are whipping your slaves so hard to finish the project, that you work them to death.

I realy don't understand why some players prefer to deal with red faces trough whiping. To do that you simply need to whip at least 2 population for one red face and not growing back before thost 10 turns of unhappiness are gone. Why would you do that? Why would you give up to that extra production or extra commerce?

B/c you can get more production from 2 pop (60h) then you could w/those two citizens on tiles...unless they are borth working mined hills. And even then, it's 60h NOW rather than merely 6 hpt. Play a tiny islands/archip. map and you'll see the power of the whip

 

[jimbob27]

Serfdom is good when you've got crappy land. Its not so good on "temperate" games, but if you play on tropical, or you're just unlucky with your starting position, serfdom is very useful for chopping down jungles.

 

[actionmedia]

B/c you can get more production from 2 pop (60h) then you could w/those two citizens on tiles...unless they are borth working mined hills. And even then, it's 60h NOW rather than merely 6 hpt. Play a tiny islands/archip. map and you'll see the power of the whip

I can understand that but you can whip only to fhinish the production, no partial whipping so you can build only small items, like military units or cheap buildings. But I am not a warmoonger. I like to build an empire peacefully. I think there is a matter of taste and a little bit of economics.

If my leader is not spiritual, I almost never use slavery, because caste sistem is just around the corner end I find it beter suits my objectivs.

 

[salty mud]

Slavery is a great civic, and good enough as it is!

 

[vilemerchant]

It's pretty silly not to use slavery. For me BW is usually the first of second thing I research and at that point in the game you have hardly any commerce anyway, so revolting into slavery really costs you nothing, and it might just save your ass if the barbs get out of hand.

 

[TheNiceOne]

I can understand that but you can whip only to fhinish the production, no partial whipping so you can build only small items, like military units or cheap buildings. But I am not a warmoonger. I like to build an empire peacefully. I think there is a matter of taste and a little bit of economics.

If my leader is not spiritual, I almost never use slavery, because caste sistem is just around the corner end I find it beter suits my objectivs.

I play as a builder more often than a warmonger, but I still switch to Slavery ASAP and stay there for a loong time.

You cannot whip expensive buildings or wonders on turn one, but just wait until there are 30 (for one pop point) or 60 (for two pop points) basic hammers left to finish it. With basic hammers I mean before production bonuses, so if you build a wonder that has 100% production bonus for stone, you can pop rush it when there are 120 hammers left, for 2 pop points.

This is a great way of getting the buildings done faster, and it is also a great way of removing the unhappy citizens in a city that has built a wonder for many turns and therefore been unable to build temples etc. in the interim.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Now Serfdom is admittedly under represented (probably a decent one to make No Maintenance in a patch... although it does have uses)

 

[starbolt]

I like slavery, but you can keep you unhappy pop under control by either the Do Not Grow icon or manually placing your production so you're stable. No need to kill off people unless there's a real purpose behind it. Flood Plain cities are ideal for pop-rushing.

I don't use serfdom often, but I'll switch to it in the middle game when 1) I have expanded faster than I've developed my land (often through conquest or culture) or 2) when I start acquiring civics that make changing my improvements desirable (e.g. Machinery, Civil Service, Replaceable Parts, Railroad).