Abaddon
Deity
An actually in my orders on the turn we attacked Rome.. I actually tried to create a rebel state. NOT something for myself.. for some reason HS egnored this and gave the city to me..!
SerfNES I - Shattered Imperium
- Thread starter Head Serf
- Start date
Demetrias
Emperor
Abby reread the post. You don't have to give me a reason to distrust you. You have t continue to give me reasons to trust you. A prudent leader knows that just because your allies right now doesn't mean you wont be enemies later. Also Lord Joakim I don't think my demands for land in Scandinavia were that bad considering your the one who originally drew the maps that made the Baltic a Cimbri lake and I was just building off that. Once I agree to a deal I don't expect everyone else to keep trying to change the terms of the deal. Its Abby who kept wanting to redraw the map. I just wanted what was originally promised to me or its something of equal value.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Your first request was Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland. That is humongous. You wanted to give us Estonian provinces, and neither Starky nor you allowed Abby or me to expand properly - I was trapped if I didn't get Norway, and Abby didn't get the German provinces he wanted. In the end, you would have too much territory, but we had to bow before you because we needed help against Rome.
... And out of a sudden, I'm the friendly, skilled Diplo guy I always was again
Demetrias
Emperor
Yes it is huge but it doesn't have a huge population and I was offering you Half the Netherlands and Estonia. If you had expanded in Estonia you would have all the Russian people to conquer. Also the only part of Germany I was claiming was the area between the Elbe and the Oder but north of Shadowbound. You and Abby never attack and took over Charlies territory like you said you were going to. There was plenty of land for you to take you just never took any of it. You guys half to remember that empty land does you no good. I wanted it for defensive perposes but you guys only saw huge land you didn't see its real value. The Netherlands is far more valuable then Scandinavia.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
OTL, there's a reason why the great powers outside Scandinavia never allowed it to unite - it would be far too powerful. If I got, sure Estonia, I would probably be able to expand into Russia, but my capital was waaaay to far away to make it managable. And you must be aware that owning both sides of the Øresund is enourmously powerful, if you play the cards right - Denmark earned a lot of money instituting high taxes on the ships sailing through. So my Estonia would be unusable because I had to sail through your strait, especially when neither you nor Starky trusted my and Abby's intentions.
And yes, I wanted to invade the Netherlands, and I would've done it the next update. Gaining 2x your land's size makes you rethink whether you need more expansion right away, y'know (hence Pictish Gaul). So I wanted to wait a moment before running into another war.
Remember, both Denmark and Sweden have been a military powerhouse. The Dutch were naught but a trading empire. So I hereby again shoosh you when you think little of Scandinavian lands
Demetrias
Emperor
Danish and Swedish Kingdoms were only military powerhouses because of the quality of their troops not of their land. No one prevented the Kalmar Union in which Scandinavia was united for 2 centuries. Also you should ask the French and the Spanish and the Roman's about the strength of the Netherlands armies. All three would give you different opinions then the one you posted. Also since you brought up Starky. I think he is the only person with the right to complain about being left out of the land divisions. He was given no were to expand to by the Northern Union.
Abaddon
Deity
He wouldnt have exhisted if it wasnt for the NU.. isn't that enough?
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
The Kalmar Union weren't prevented because a) they were too afraid or b) they knew that Sweden didn't want to be a member of the Union. Sweden was almost constantly revolting.
Also, the time I talked about was in the 1650es, where Denmark lost several territories to Sweden... Initially we would have conquered them, but Netherlands didn't want that Denmark should control Baltic trade and backstabbed DK. Later I've heard that the Netherlands supported DK in some war, I think, to prevent Sweden to win over DK.
Scandinavia was too powerful to be left on its own.
Oh, and Starky would have expanded into Roman Gaul eventually, he said it himself.
Regarding the Netherlands' armies.. They were only effecient because the Netherlands could afford them. Netherlands had luckily succeeded in creating the Trading Empire, and therefore could afford it. Holland doesn't have the resource nor the population capability to be significant in this era.
Also land quality doesn't matter in this NES.
Head Serf
Emperor
Sure it did. Judea and Rome did much better than, say, Scythia.
Flavius Aetius
Ruler Of Liguria
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2007
- Messages
- 774
Those bastard Scythians...
Head Serf
Emperor
I never really figured out what to do with the Scythians after the end of the war.
Flavius Aetius
Ruler Of Liguria
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2007
- Messages
- 774
What war? the Great Western one?
Demetrias
Emperor
I think he means their war with Dacia.
Roman armies fought and were defeated by the Cherusci which is the Netherlands as we know it. Thats one of the bases for this game we played. Sweden never had the population to be a great power see their wars with Russia. Germany was the one you should have feared. Thats why I wanted the Elbe to Oder Territory as a defensive buffer between me and the German States.
Roman armies fought and were defeated by the Cherusci which is the Netherlands as we know it. Thats one of the bases for this game we played. Sweden never had the population to be a great power see their wars with Russia. Germany was the one you should have feared. Thats why I wanted the Elbe to Oder Territory as a defensive buffer between me and the German States.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Sweden was a great power for some time. After the 30 years war, that is. Also please remember you had access to Russia, not me
..And Head Serf, I didn't notice that at all. All I ever thought was "Well, I'll just friqqin expand xD". There wasn't any land quality mention in the rules, that is.
Demetrias
Emperor
It wasn't mentioned in the rules but it did come up in the updates when he would talk about the quality of Roman armies saving it from having higher casualties. It also came up in wonders both that I built and that Shadowbound built and in one update about me he said my army quality was nullified by the lack of adequate infastructure to support a large scale war.
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