Serpent in the ark?

stratego

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The fact that there are serpents today means (according to the bible) they must have been in the ark, or they evolve from fish (which the bible does not teach). But serpents were evil, so why were they allowed on the ark?
 
It has already been shown that there is NO way that the ark could fit two of every species on the planet now and have them all survive, without taking evolution into consideration. Maybe a bible cubit equals a mile. I'm not sure.
 
It has already been shown that there is NO way that the ark could fit two of every species on the planet now and have them all survive, without taking evolution into consideration. Maybe a bible cubit equals a mile. I'm not sure.

Actually, I think according to the bible there were 43 species on the ark, and there are still 43 species today.
 
The fact that there are serpents today means (according to the bible) they must have been in the ark, or they evolve from fish (which the bible does not teach). But serpents were evil, so why were they allowed on the ark?

How are you so sure that your assumption, that snakes are evil is correct ? The assumption that an animal should be evil, i.e. a god-made creature, seems far-stretched to me.
 
How are you so sure that your assumption, that snakes are evil is correct ? The assumption that an animal should be evil, i.e. a god-made creature, seems far-stretched to me.

The devil was turned into a serpent after tempting Adam and Eve to try the apple.
 
The devil was turned into a serpent after tempting Adam and Eve to try the apple.

But how would that affect the other snakes ? What if the devil was turned into a dog or a cat ? The snakes obviously were there before and after that event. And the other side of your argument was, that god (presumed) wouldn't let any evil creatures on board of the ark. In this case, it seems to me, that god neither holds a grudge versus snakes, nor that they are evil creatures. Except for one, which isn't even an animal.
 
The devil was turned into a serpent after tempting Adam and Eve to try the apple.

No. Satan appeared to Eve as a serpent. After he tempted them to sin, the serpent was cursed to slither on its belly and be the enemy of the woman.
 
Originally posted by Speedo
No. Satan appeared to Eve as a serpent. After he tempted them to sin, the serpent was cursed to slither on its belly and be the enemy of the woman.
How unfair. What can the serpents do about Satan using their shape?
 
I have an idea! Let's read parables literally! And then argue the finer points of them, even though we don't really beleive them!

:rolleyes: Let the radical creationists argue this one...

EDIT: playing with colors
 
Originally posted by Mescalhead
It has already been shown that there is NO way that the ark could fit two of every species on the planet now and have them all survive, without taking evolution into consideration. Maybe a bible cubit equals a mile. I'm not sure.

Simple. One fish, for example, then the fish divsered.
About size (quoted from an article):

Was the ark large enough to hold all the required animals?
The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15) which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah’s family and ‘range’ for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.

Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals’ needs for exercise anyway.

Even if we don’t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark’s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

Food requirements
The Ark would probably have carried compressed and dried foodstuffs, and probably a lot of concentrated food. Perhaps Noah fed the cattle mainly on grain, plus some hay for fibre. Woodmorappe calculated that the volume of foodstuffs would have been only about 15 % of the Ark’s total volume. Drinking water would only have taken up 9.4 % of the volume. This volume would be reduced further if rainwater was collected and piped into troughs.

Excretory requirements
It is doubtful whether the humans had to clean the cages every morning. Possibly they had sloped floors or slatted cages, where the manure could fall away from the animals and be flushed away (plenty of water around!) or destroyed by vermicomposting (composting by worms) which would also provide earthworms as a food source. Very deep bedding can sometimes last for a year without needing a change. Absorbent material (e.g. sawdust, softwood wood shavings and especially peat moss) would reduce the moisture content and hence the odour.

Hibernation
The space, feeding and excretory requirements were adequate even if the animals had normal day/night sleeping cycles. But hibernation is a possibility which would reduce these requirements even more. It is true that the Bible does not mention it, but it does not rule it out either. Some creationists suggest that God created the hibernation instinct for the animals on the Ark, but we should not be dogmatic either way.

Some skeptics argue that food taken on board rules out hibernation, but this is not so. Hibernating animals do not sleep all winter, despite popular portrayals, so they would still need food occasionally.
 
In Revelations, Satan is a dragon, Gods pet. You know, he'll let Satan off his leash for a bit, send him on a killing spree & generally wreak havoc across the globe.

But there's nothing to worry about now. God waited to long, I mean let's face it, if he turns up now, we'd kick his arse. He'll have to wait 'till the next cataclysm (natural or self inflicted) wipes out a large chunk of life before he can have his fun.

So what I'm really trying to say is, it isn't the species that's evil, it's not even the individual, it's all in the eye of the beholder.
 
Not dragons, just Satan the dragon, and not the kind of pet like a lap dog, he's the kind of pet you continually torment with the intention of turning it into an anger fueled people tear-apartera. Such as the ones you may find patrolling junk yards at night.
 
Originally posted by Speedo
Satan appeared to Eve as a serpent.

Exactly!

After he tempted them to sin, the serpent was cursed to slither on its belly and be the enemy of the woman.

The poor innocent serpent was punished for the crime that it didn't commit!:cry: Unless the serpent gave Satan permission to take its form, it didn't deserve to be punished like that.

Edit: Moreover, even if one serpent gave Satan permission to take its form. I'm sure the other one would be totally innocent, but all serpents were equally cursed. :cry:
 
Originally posted by stratego
Actually, I think according to the bible there were 43 species on the ark, and there are still 43 species today.
:confused: There are more than a million species of arthropods alone. (And no, Pontiuth, I don't have a list. :p)
 
BTW, if you actually take the time to study a few snakes, you'll notice that they aren't cursed at all. In fact, you could almost say they're blessed.
 
I am wondering how we are going to kick God's arse.
 
Originally posted by Knowze Gungk
BTW, if you actually take the time to study a few snakes, you'll notice that they aren't cursed at all. In fact, you could almost say they're blessed.

Exactly. It's no curse for a snake to have no legs. They are in every way fully adapted to life without legs. Give legs to a snake, and they'll only get in its way. It would be like giving wings to a groundhog, or tusks to a human. At that point, it's just a burden that would completely interfere with its way of life.
 
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