Settler production and food - confused

Chas

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
30
Sorry about this, real simple newbie stuff but I have spent the last hour browsing manuals and strategy guides and can't find the answer - it must be somewhere obvious that I'm not looking.

I think I understand this screen (but not the next one):


Health:
I'm on Noble, so I get 2 free health, plus 3 from resources = 5
My pop is 7, so that's -2 health, which means 2 food subtracted from whatever I am producing.

Happiness:
I get 4 free, plus 1 each for the Palace and a resource =6
7 pop gives -7.
So that's -1 happy, = 1 angry citizen

Food production:
Of my 7 citizens, 5 are working water tiles = 10 food
'Free' from my city tile = 2 food
Health penalty = -2 food
Total = 10
Pop = 7, so I require 14, so that's -4 starvation

Settler production:
I thought it worked like this: During settler production, all food surplus is diverted to the settler, and converted into equivalent hammers.

I have no surplus food, 1 free hammer from my city tile plus 1 from my 1 unassigned citizen = 2, as shown in the production bar.

BUT now, I take my unassigned citizen, and assign him to another water tile:


The starvation works just like I expect - 6 citizens give 12 food, plus 2 from the city tile, -2 from health = total food 12. Pop 7 means starvation of -2.

But the settler production doesn't work - there's 3 extra food appeared from somewhere, to give me the 1 food shown in the settler production bar.

This 'extra' 3 applies if I reassign the citizens to better food producing squares. I won't waste space with another screenshot, but trust me:
If I have them on tiles worth 21 food
Plus 2 from the city tile gives 23.
Less 2 for health gives 21.
Less 14 for pop, leaves 7.
But the settler production bar shows 10 from food (+whatever actual hammers there are on the worked tiles).

Even if I am wrong about the way health subtraction works, it still doesn't work out sensibly.

I must be missing something obvious - help.
 
I don't see any screenshots, but I can tell you, that unhappy citizens don't eat food when your city builds workers or settlers.
 
I don't see any screenshots, but I can tell you, that unhappy citizens don't eat food when your city builds workers or settlers.

On your keyboard, to the right of your F12 button should be a button that says "PrtScn SysRq". Click that, then go to Paint or some program of the like and paste. You should see what you were seeing when you pressed that button. Save it, upload it on photobucket (or something... yes... of the like. (I love that phrase :p )) and then there you go. A good ol' screenshot. :goodjob:
 
Hmm, I obviously don't understand how to post screenies on this forum. I was able to see them. I've tried another way, do you see them now?
 
Chas,

Yes, I see the screenshots now.

That does look kinda odd. Why would the game dedicate 1 food to the settler while your citizens were starving? Something is wrong in either a display or a item priority somewhere.


Oh, wait, I think I see it now. If DanF5771 is right (and I have no reason to doubt him) the unhappy citizen isn't consuming food, so there's 2 of your "missing food." ...but where does that 3rd food come from? Also, why is the unhappy citizen consuming food in the first screenshot but not the 2nd? Okay, I give up, I'm stumped.
 
I don't see any screenshots, but I can tell you, that unhappy citizens don't eat food when your city builds workers or settlers.

OK, when you replied apparently the screenies were invisible, they are there now. If what you say is true, I don't understand either screen - because I can't even work out why it is -4 starvation on the first one.
 
Chas,

Yes, I see the screenshots now.

That does look kinda odd. Why would the game dedicate 1 food to the settler while your citizens were starving? Something is wrong in either a display or a item priority somewhere.


Oh, wait, I think I see it now. If DanF5771 is right (and I have no reason to doubt him) the unhappy citizen isn't consuming food, so there's 2 of your "missing food." ...but where does that 3rd food come from? Also, why is the unhappy citizen consuming food in the first screenshot but not the 2nd? Okay, I give up, I'm stumped.

If we ignore the "phantom food" going into production of the settler in the second screenshot, the unhappy citizen is either eating or not eating in both screenshots:

1. 12 (produced) - 14 (7 citizens eating) - 2 (unhealth) = -4 (reflected to left of food bar)

2. 14 (produced) - 14 (7 citizens eating) - 2 (unhealth) = -2 (reflected to left of food bar)

Being aware of DanF's work and prowess with the code, I'm loathe to say he's wrong here, so I suspect that 2 food the unhappy citizen appears to be eating can be accounted for some other way, but I don't think his food consumption changes from one screenshot to the other. What may be happening, and this is pure speculation, is that the unhappy citizen's food is added back in to determine the food going into the settler, and since the settler is being produced purely with hammers in the first shot, that adding back in isn't reflected anywhere. In the second shot, adding it back in accounts for both the food bar balance and 2/3 of the food bar-production bar discrepancy. Adding that food back in on the second screenshot should bring the "production bar food" to zero. I wonder if the difference between zero PBF and -2 PBF triggers some new calculation related to production that results in our remaining phantom food.

What effect might the granary be having on all this?
 
Ok now I can see the screenshots, good. Yeah, this feature is quite confusing:
When a city builds a Settler or a Worker, the unhappy citizens are not taken into consideration for the city's production, but they are taken into consideration for the city's food balance (2 formulas) -- it's like, they don't eat, but they starve :crazyeye:.
The food balance formula always works with all citizens (6 happy + 1 unhappy = 7), so together with the 2 extra :yuck: from population you need 16 :food: to avoid starvation. Thus in the first / second screenshot you produce 12 / 14 :food: which results in -4 / -2 :food: starvation.
The city's one unhappy citizen is ignored completely for the calculation of the hammers the city puts into the Settler, so for 6 citizens you only get 1 extra :yuck: for the population which will let the city "break even" with 13 :food:. In the first screenshot with 12 :food: no food can be converted to hammers, in the second screenshot with 14 :food: you get 1 extra :hammers: for the 1 extra :food:.
 
Right. Yes, that is confusing. Thanks, very clear explanation.

I like 'feature', now that's an old-time software developer talking :) If you can't fix it, feature it...
 
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