Settling the Iberian Peninsula

[AluminumKnight]

All of the guides and threads I've read about Spanish strategy involve settling Madrid in place (or perhaps settling Lisboa in order to kick out the Portuguese). However, doesn't this configuration use the area Spain gets to it's full potential as well as make the capital on the coast? I think this might weaken the capital a little as far as running Bureaucracy, but it also covers the whole peninsula, with all 3 cities having good production and science potential. The reason I make Zaragoza the capital is to hold off French culture. Basically, what is the reason for settling Madrid in place?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The problem with your 3 cities is that you can't enclose the really good resources in the middle from the start until you have monuments and Christianity. Zaragoza also has 4 mountains (too much for a capital) Also, your culture may not be strong enough to retain the horses when Portugal does show up, and you better have good troops because the proximity will make them want to declare war. When it was still possible to squat Lisbon, I used it as the capital, then Barcelona and Bilbao (after I razed Bordeaux and Marseilles). (Southern Spain sucks) But that was then...
Now, Madrid (1N of start to enclose more hills if you're not playing late game since it's not on a river for levees), Santiago (or 1S just beyond Portugal's northern flip border) and 1 city close to a razed Marseilles is probably the best bet.

 

[blizzrd]

EDIT:
I prefer this configuration to get maximum value from the Iberian peninsula:

Spoiler :

You can either found Lisboa and refuse the eventual flip to Portugal (not recommended) or you can wait for Portugal to found the city for you and then take it for yourself (recommended).

Marseilles and Bordeaux should be razed with your starting units, as a matter of course when playing Spain.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Marseilles and Bordeaux should be razed with your starting units, as a matter of course when playing Spain.

(Although it seems that it's harder to do so in RFCC with longbows being weaker)

 

[AluminumKnight]

With my configuration, Bordeos should be kept, which is probably overall bad... I'll have to try to Lisboa as capital strategy. I just don't like the idea of the Spanish capital not being on the coast, since you need to build lots of ships.

 

[KaiserKevin]

All of the guides and threads I've read about Spanish strategy involve settling Madrid in place (or perhaps settling Lisboa in order to kick out the Portuguese). However, doesn't this configuration use the area Spain gets to it's full potential as well as make the capital on the coast? I think this might weaken the capital a little as far as running Bureaucracy, but it also covers the whole peninsula, with all 3 cities having good production and science potential. The reason I make Zaragoza the capital is to hold off French culture. Basically, what is the reason for settling Madrid in place?

I use that setup and enjoy it quite a bit, although capital I place at Cadiz. The other cities get Christianity quickly and I've never had to worry about not having resources. Additionally no cities are in Portugal's spawn and I usally kill them first turn anyway. If you don't build a road on Lisbon they can't hurt you, declare first turn they'll move all their units out. Just send a horse archer to go raze it.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I thought Rhye fixed this problem of troops leaving the capital at spawn. Also there will probably be random troops appearing after you declare war even if you eradicate them the 2nd turn.

 

[KaiserKevin]

I thought Rhye fixed this problem of troops leaving the capital at spawn. Also there will probably be random troops appearing after you declare war even if you eradicate them the 2nd turn.

Not fixed, I have 1.186 (think that's latest) The change I saw was on their very first turn before they found cities if you attack new units will keep spawning as you kill off their initial ones. Doesn't stop AI from being stupid turn after founding their capital.

And if you kill right after they found no extra units come, they don't res. Only time units will flip is if you refuse to flip cities but sense none are in Portugal's area don't matter.

 

[blizzrd]

As far as I can recall, Rhye tried to look into this issue of stupid AI behaviour on T2 but found that it was nothing to do with the mod and just down to the basic AI programming from Firaxis.

 

[Jusos2108]

Since squatting isn't possible, I think these cities are the best way to settle Iberia. Naturally Lisbon is razed when Portugal spawns. Feel free to disagree.

 

[AluminumKnight]

Since squatting isn't possible, I think these cities are the best way to settle Iberia. Naturally Lisbon is razed when Portugal spawns. Feel free to disagree.

I just don't see the point of wasting a settler covering area that could be covered with only 3 cities. I guess I see the point of accessing those horses immediately, but Zaragoza will expand right away and hopefully religion comes quickly, otherwise Libraries don't take too long to build (or you could avoid Calendar for a bit and use Monuments), and you'll want them anyway.

If you don't flip one of those cities in your setup from an earlier Civ (impossible in 600AD and improbable in 3000BC), you have to build another settler, which to me is a waste of time.

 

[dragodon64]

I've altered my RFC map a bit, so resources aren't where they used to be. However, judging by the normal resource configuration, I'd go with blizzrd's map with the conquering Lisboa from Portugal option.

 

[Jusos2108]

If you settle my four cities, you don't get the stability penalty of controlling Lisbon and Portugal also the Cadiz settler can whipped in Santiago in no time at all. For me the time spent whipping a settler is worth the stability boost.

 

[Cosmos1985]

If you settle my four cities, you don't get the stability penalty of controlling Lisbon and Portugal also the Cadiz settler can whipped in Santiago in no time at all. For me the time spent whipping a settler is worth the stability boost.

The stability penalty is for tiles owned, not location of the city, thus when it comes to the Iberian peninsula and the placement of cities there, where one wants to cover all the tiles, this doesn't make any difference.

 

[blizzrd]

Nobody seems to understand this point Cosmos. Weird but true.

Moreover, if you don't expand outside of your first 32 (land) tiles, there are no stability penalties for tiles owned.

 

[Jusos2108]

The stability penalty is for tiles owned, not location of the city, thus when it comes to the Iberian peninsula and the placement of cities there, where one wants to cover all the tiles, this doesn't make any difference.

Okay, didn't know this. And yes that is weird.

 

[Ekolite]

Santander actually looks like a very strong city. I've always overlooked that as a city location in the past.

 

[Soda]

The stability penalty is for tiles owned, not location of the city, thus when it comes to the Iberian peninsula and the placement of cities there, where one wants to cover all the tiles, this doesn't make any difference.

This isn't accurate. There is one set of penalties for city locations and another for outside tiles controlled. But it's not that big of a penalty per city, so this isn't something you necessarily need to plan around.

 

[Veshta]

Just tried blizzrd's city placement with Barcelona (Capital), Santander and Granada as intitial cities.

The production is immense in all of them, even Barcelona when it wins the tug-of-war with French culture.

Was in control of the Americas, France, Holland and had everyone clamouring to be a vassal by 1600, never been able to do it that convincingly before. Thanks for the tip

 

[blizzrd]

You're welcome!