SG Lurkers, ready?

Happy New Year guys, i'm back:D

I'm amazed that you can play ~10 pages worth of this SG in the time that i'm gone.
I skimmed through the thread and managed to pick up that we went to war and partially crushed Toku and that the backstabbing bastard Monte declared war on our unprotected back:mad: .
I'll have my turn whenever really. :goodjob:
 
I would like to point out that both times, Liq was the last person to play before the drums of war were sounded.
If liq were to have a cute puppy follow him home, no problem.
But when liq hands the game to me, lately it seems to be followed by a screaming horde!
smiley74xm.gif

(*I think he is testing my reflexes for his 'barby flambe'" SG*)

10 pages? Really? I hope you studied them carefully. We will be having a pop quiz in the new year. :mischief:
Welcome back, Sir T. Wasn't the same without cha'
After them UK Lurkers, we hand it off to our Aussie connection.
(If we can't beat them with wit, we will baffle them by our various accents)

Yay! The entire SG is almost back from holidays :D
 
well this is the second time I'm using this... think it's a keeper!!!!

what if that cute puppy was a baby harp seal luv?



Sealsagaintsmonty.jpg





see? it was the farging baby harp seal that did it!!!!! Monty just wants the seal He'll let us go if we just hand over the Baby harp seal!

I say nay! we are defenders of all that are fluffy!!! Sir toma is NOT fluffy.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
(0) 1736AD
- Remaining zombie workers are hunted down and de-automated.
- Check diplo status… hmm… Note that HC has a defensive pact with both Alex and Toku, and Saladin is pacted with Cyrus. Perhaps this is why Monty is gunning for us now rather than Persia?

1736diplo1.jpg


Note also that Nappy is friendly with Monty:

1736diplo2.jpg


- PigPen is suffering from both war-weariness and ill-health so I take 2 citizens off the fields to temporarily halt growth. They become priests, and because I consider our artist to be too avant-garde in his tendencies I have him retrained as an engineer (rifleman drops a turn).

(1) 1738AD
- Cyrus comes begging for Steam Power, but he wasn’t willing to help us with Monty so nuts to him.
- Scientific Method -> Physics
- Djenne: grenadier -> rifleman
- Walata: grenadier -> rifleman
- Kushans: Hindu temple -> library
- We discover a source of oil off the coast near Timbuktu:

1738oil.jpg


- We lose a pasture and a village to pillaging cavalry. Djenne is now starving. Cavalry is sent from Djenne to slaughter the interloper: we win (6/15) . Workers + guards are sent to pasteurize our cows.
Cavalry unit sent vs. enemy cavalry outside Walata: another win (9/15)
- Hindu missionary arrives in Marseilles and successfully spreads Hinduism

1738hindu.jpg


I notice that Saladin, Nappy, and HC already have Physics but won’t trade.

(2) 1740AD
- Timbuktu: rifle -> workboat for the oil
- Cows are reconnected and Djenne is growing once more.

(3) 1742AD
IBT: Liquidated! You and your effing baby harp seal!! You’ve jinxed us!!!

1742nappy.jpg


:eek: Thanks a bunch. :mad:

And if that wasn’t enough, Monty makes a surprise attack through Saladin’s territory N of PigPen and scrags an unwary pikeman:

1740sneak.jpg


Retribution is swift and satisfying, and the enemy is killed without a scratch.
- Djenne: rifleman -> cavalry
- Kumbi: aqueduct -> rifleman
- PigPen: rifleman -> grenadier
- Marooned: theatre -> cavalry

I’m taking a break until my heart stops pounding. The other turns may have to wait until tomorrow. In the meantime our resident warlords can deliberate, cogitate, and digest, and generally navigate a way out of the chocolate canyon we have found ourselves in.

:adds Liquidated's name to "the little black book":

1742demo.jpg


1742power.jpg
 
Our forces:

us.jpg


Nappy’s:

nappy.jpg


Distribution of his forces that we know of:

1742chartres.jpg


1742orleans.jpg


1742paris.jpg


1742marseilles.jpg


1742tours.jpg
 
Nappy declared, on us? :mad:

What a....
Wait a minute. Nappy has a sad little army (that we know of).
Catapults, etc... I wonder if he has anything up his sleeve?
Maybe it will be a phony war? Now would be a good time for some
diplomatic magic though. I do not like all these defensive pacts.
We are using a "permanent alliance" game rules. That means that the defensive pacts the other civs entered are unbreakable?
Gee. Not good. Only Monty, us and Hatty have no friends now?
I hope nobody allies with any more of our enemies.

Can we fight a war on two fronts? ... hesitantly I think so.
But this will kiss our dreams of a quick invasion of Monty's lands goodbye.
Maybe we can take some of Nappy's central cities on the way to Monty's land?

I'm not sure what you plan to do with that workboat though.
We can't build a rig until we get combustion, right? Some future tech like that.

Overall, I think I am more concerned about the defensive pacts getting signed than about a two front war against Monty & Nappy.
Then again, we already broke Monty's main army, now we fight a fresh nappy too? Ugh. Oh well, might as well get it done. See what happens.
Good thing you warned Percinho though, and now Sir Toma gets some excitement to look forward to as well.

Final thought. I think nappy is a very poor ally of ours, what with declaring war on us and stuff. Just saying is all.

We need two things now:
Tanks & Flight!
fly6qf.gif


Watch our right flank. We have troops there (been doing a slow buildup). If Nappy does NOT attack on the right, maybe we should attack him and take a city? That'd be a major poke in the eye for our former friend. Angle and Naggy will have to keep pushing out troops though.
Nappy and Monty (haven't forgotten about you either Toku) are jerks.
 
I doubt any civ will enter into a pact with us while we are at war.
I hope the same is true with the Nappy & Monty pair of thugs.

Who should we now be courting as allies?
The Saladin/Cyrus pact?

What is making Hatty despise us so much? You'd think she'd like the fact we are making war on Monty, after all... he did try to attack her!
So ungrateful. Would be nice to make friends with the only babe around, from a purely strategic standpoint of course.
coolio2qv.gif
-"Yo, Wassup?"

*Morning honey. Hey... stop looking over my shoulder! No! It's just a game, dear! Well I don't know why it says I wrote that. Hackers I think. What are you doing with that? That's mine anyway, put it...
Ow! What did you do that for? Have I mentioned that you have lovely eyes, dear? Why are you putting blankets and a pillow on the couch, you tired or something? Oh.*

Ooops, sorry for interruption. Mrs Muffin sends her regards. ;)
 
Luv_Muffin said:
We are using a "permanent alliance" game rules. That means that the defensive pacts the other civs entered are unbreakable?
Gee. Not good. Only Monty, us and Hatty have no friends now?
I hope nobody allies with any more of our enemies.

Thankfully, things aren't quite that bad. Perma alliances don't come until Communism (I think) and can only be signed after sharing a defensive pact or a war for a significant number of turns AND having "friendly" relations. But if we start seeing them being signed it's basically game over for us as alliance partners share tech/wonder benefits/everything automatically.

But you're right, even defensive pacts are a very bad sign. Notice that Cyrus cleverly signed with Saladin so that if Monty attacks him again Saladin will be forced to declare war on Monty. Our Aztec buddy has had to vent his aggression elsewhere - on us! And you're correct: we can't sign any while at war. :(

Hatty is refusing to talk to us at the moment, which probably means that we agreed to stop trading with her recently.

And look at this:

bio.jpg


Notice that both Nappy and Monty have Biology. Nappy didn't have it a turn ago, so I bet that Monty used it to bribe him into going to war with us. In other words, Monty knew that he wouldn't be able to break us and was starting to fear our counter-attack. That might mean he is currently vulnerable.

Nappy's military is relatively feeble at the moment, but I don't know how long this will last seeing that he is already on Physics compared to us, and will no doubt continue trading his way up the tech tree. Do we switch NOW to Assembly Line (still around 20 turns away) for infantry, or continue with Physics etc. for tanks and later flight?

I'm not sure what you plan to do with that workboat though.
We can't build a rig until we get combustion, right? Some future tech like that.

Forgot about that. :) At least we'll have the boat ready, and I can drop some badass ship on the tile until we are ready to work it.
 
I think we can, if we are aggressive about it, really score some points with this doublecross. We have to turn this alarming turnabout into a positive.

What I'm thinking is, leave riflemen to defend our east flank (Toku ain't got nothing but cav and catapults, pfft). Use everything else in a surprise attack against one of Nappy's important cities in the east. We might be able to cripple him before he can upgrade everything and build a modern army to fight us. Even if he counterattacks and takes it back, he will loose many perks from that city, and will be a weaker position than he is now.

I say attack! Attack on the right flank, attack up the centre. Best defense might be to take the fight to both characters. Maybe take Besancon, and then turn left for a stike against Marsellies and then Monty's monster cities.

Unless we are losing, I don't think we should stop this war. If we get a few good blows in soon, we may be too big and getting stronger for them to hold off. Our population is growing, empire is getting bigger, and with smaller empires they won't be able to keep up to us in techs later in the game.

I am optimisitic. Very scary for you though, scowler. (Been there, done that... twice!), but my defending was always more like an attack within my own borders anyway. If you can, or if Percinho can... defend us by capturing their cities! I have no idea what Nappy will throw at you though, so play it by ear. Keep your wits sharp, and get mad at em. I think you will do fine.

Good luck! :goodjob:

*Paris! Rifleman, grenadier? That is it! (Some longbows too, but whatever) Take this city! Take it. Do it. I know you want to.
C'mon, go psycho all over nappy, take Paris!

Then take everything else. Nappy's empire is just waiting to be assimilated into our own Lurker collective.
borgassimilation1xh.gif

Be daring, like Robin the hood, or The Fonz! You can do it!

*-> the last edit has been an unasked for opinion which is based on limited intelligence (recon, not saying I'm stupid or nothing) and what I see here. What actually happens in game is entirely different. Use your best judgement as always. These are just my spur of the moment opinions and if things go wrong, I will deny ever making them.

-- if he can't stop you from taking Paris, take Orleans too. two riflemen (bring grens), longbowman & prophet (Prophets aren't good fighters, longbowmen are barely any better against cavalry). If you get mean, you might just be able to do it.
Attack him especially if he comes after us in the centre. (Attack where he ain't)
1742paris.jpg
1742orleans.jpg


Idea I'm thinking of. Lots of variables, but it's a start of a reaction to this development.
turn737on.jpg

*Extremely important to attack now! If we wait, you can kiss these undefended prize cities of his goodbye, and we will be left fighting over scraps. He will upgrade, and build his own army if we let him. Count on it. Fight him now, when he is weak and with a primitive army.

Maybe other ppl in the SG have alternative ideas?
 
Jeesh, Every time I disappear for a day or two we get into another war!!! :lol:

L_M, are you suggesting that attack is the best form of defence? You know, I think you may well have a good point though. There are cities there for the taking, but they'll be tough to keep. I we can get them focussing inside their own borders though, there'll be a lot less flowing from them into our territory.

Good to have you back Sir_T. I have enough trouble keeping up with this every day let alone suddenly having to catch up on 10 pages! :crazyeye:
 
I think attacking Nappy is the only way to prevent a defensive war across our entire empire. If we build so many units whose main purpose is to defend our tiles from pillaging, we are going to go bankrupt and our enemies will grow faster than us techwise, and they will be able to put a larger combined army together if we allow them time.

I don't think we can afford to wait for them to get around to cutting our legs off from underneath us. I say we beat them to the punch.
If we attack, and they take their cities back.. we win. The city they recover from us will have to be rebuilt, and they will loose more troops in their territory. Their workers won't be building rails either, with our troops screaming across the border.
If we do take some cities, we will cripple them (like we did Toku), so they are a much smaller threat for the rest of the game.

I think that if we send our grens, cannons (everything not absolutely neccesary to simply garrison our eastern cities)... add to that a sweeping (fast moving) reinforcement of our veteran cavalry from the Monty Front (our riflemen are awesome now at our borders)... we should be able to smash through Paris's walls (bombard, then attack. Waiting to reduce defenses will take forever, shock and speed are our tools here). We can replace our cavalry easily on west flank, our riflemen there are awesome right now. The harder we hit on the right flank, the shorter this war is going to be.

After Paris falls, cut off Orleans, and start knocking down those walls. As soon as we have some healthy troops, sack that city too. Nappy will be out of it from there on, mostly medium sized cities (only 1 large city of his will remain, and will be cut off too). From then on, he will be on the ropes. With every new attack, we will get stronger, and closer to launching a game ending assault on Monty. Take Monty's holy city (We get his cash instead!) and we should be set for a win with this game.

That's my optimistic assessment. We must not allow peace to break out with these two, or else they will sign some sort of pact. We have no friends, so we might as well be a monster.

*Don't quote me on this though. ;) Just my opinion.
Who knows what the next *click* end-turn will present Scowler with?
Again, good luck Scowler. I vote we take Nappy down. Take his wonders too.
 
I wonder what BlackLuck will think, when he sees what we've been up to?

Western Flank, might want to think about beefing up with grenadiers, cannon, rifles. Would like troops there that can take apart grenadier stacks (cannons and grens), if Saladin or Monty tries a bum rush through Shaggy or the PigPen area. Nobody is breaking through at walata (castles are nice, huh?)

Timbuktu, Angle and Naggy can hurl cavalry, grens and rifles at our eastern flank to fortify and take those two cities. Djenne might want to build a central army to exploit the centre, if the opportunity presents itself.

Nappy might hit us back. If he does, we can use that as a distraction to steal his central cities and threaten Monty too.

* can we afford to send a cavalry on a suicide pillage mission into monty's lands? Would be nice to hurt him economically.

* Scowler is keeping us all in suspense! Aaargh....
Hope to see it all work out in our favor, so do your voodoo, burn incense... whatever it is you do to ensure a win, do it.
Heh heh.
You have a lucky mouse pad or something?
 
:sigh: Turns played at last. However, the report will have to wait until the morning, after I've had some sleep.

It's all very depressing.
 
man this is just bad news all around.

people gonna dog pile on us.. if toku doesn;t attack now he's a moron.

flat out military time and eff peace. if we survive this it's domination time. I mean no one likes us.. nappy was out best of buds and declared war on us at monties begging? sigh.

who needs raging barbs when you got monty nappy and toku as neighbors?

just amazing, lets see if we can even survive this.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
What the heck happened to our diplomatic relations?
Wow.

Permanent alliances means that if relations are good enough, you can enter into one; the civs that are permanently allied are essentially one. (I once had one with, ironically, Mansa Musa.)
Defensive packs aren't necessarily 'permanent' if the civs fall out favor with each other.

If it were me, I would have signed peace with Monty, and focused on Napolean. I'm a big fan of limited wars, I guess. Apparently switching our civics around really made the neighbors unhappy. And, all the warfare seems to have has falling behind the tech race?

At any rate, Scowler's post doesn't bode well.
 
Lurker commentary (If you dont mind, of course):

Great post, scowler! (I like pictures! :mischief: ) I totally agree with you and Luv_Muffin's analysis: it seems that your best option at the moment is to assault Nappy. Given the PA that he has formed, it will be a matter of turns before we gains enough of a tech lead to modernize his army.

What about capturing the more weakly defended cities and using that as a bribe to sue for peace? Although a dilatory action, it might be enough for you to (A) have enough time to finish Toku or (B) tech to the next step and mobilize your forces.

Would someone mind posting up the latest save file so I can take a gander? Thanks and Cheers! :D
 
(3) 1742AD [continued]
Being at war with one civ isn’t too bad, once the initial shock has worn off. However, the prospect of battling two of the top civs, along an extremely wide front line was less enticing. I’m naturally a defensive player and I was worried by the fact that we have a LOT of obsolete units, so the first thing I did was to slam research to 0% for a few turns. It plays hell with our tech standing, but it allows us to start upgrading our reserves.

Secondly, it was fairly obvious at this point that things would only get worse the longer I delayed: if I was going to attack it would have to be more or less right away, before Napoleon got his act together. It was notable that he hadn’t even changed civics at this point, which supports my theory that he was bribed into declaring by Monty, rather than simply objecting to something we had done. His cities were relatively lightly defended and he was clearly unprepared to go to war. This would change, however, if I gave him breathing space. I therefore made up my mind to go for the quickest and easiest target, which just happened to be Besancon. Fortunately, it was close enough that I could actually attack it this turn. I sent out a mixed force of cavalry and riflemen that I felt I could spare from Djenne (I’ve forgotten the exact distribution in the heat of the moment) and started the assault. I didn’t even bother waiting to bombard the city; I just attacked. I was able to reduce the garrison of Besancon to just a single rifleman without any losses by the end of the turn, but my units were left relatively exposed outside the walls.

(4) 1744AD
IBT: Nappy sends a single rifleman to attack our forces – unfortunately he kills one of the rifles outside Besancon. Belatedly, he adopts Vassalage and Theocracy. Then it is my turn.

There is still only a single rifleman in Besancon so I simply throw what I have at him. First rifle is unsuccessful and dies. The second wins without a scratch and Besancon falls:

1744besancon.jpg

besancon.jpg


My rather pitiful force of 2 rifles and a cavalry fortifies itself inside the city and waits for the inevitable counterattack.

Construction is finished at a couple of cities (Gao and Timbuktu, I think) and more military units go into production.

The other downside of this war is that those deals we had with Nappy have been cancelled: most of our cities are now unhappy due to the loss of extra gold we were receiving from him. As a quick fix I dial up Cyrus and offer him sheep in exchange for his incense. He agrees, and our cities are happy once more, albeit temporarily.

Finally, after studying the status of Nappy’s other cities I decide that Rheims is also relatively unprotected. I send out a stack of cavalry, rifles, and cannons from Kushans and fortify them on a jungle hill just inside the French borders.

(5) 1746AD
I’m simply staggered that Nappy didn’t even attempt to take back Besancon. He could easily have sent units from Marseilles to assault it. Even his lone rifleman outside the walls (Walls? What walls?) turns round and scurries back whence it came. Bizarre, but I’m not complaining. I might as well see about strengthening our garrison.

He also seems unaware that I am advancing on Rheims.

Again, production is finished in a couple of cities, most notable a Hindu temple in Tokyo. A library is started here; military forces elsewhere.

(6) 1748AD
A single French cavalry unit approaches Kushans. One of our rifles in the city attacks it and dies! The cavalry is completely unscathed. Next a combat1/pinch rifle attacks it and this time is victorious (6.4/14).

Nappy finally realises the danger Rheims is in and brings down some cavalry from the north for support. Monty also sends a cavalry unit to assist – great.

rheims_support.jpg


(7) 1750AD
IBT: Nappy finally attempts to retake Besancon, with the help of Monty, but is completely unsuccessful. His cannon is destroyed, his cavalry withdraws injured, and Monty’s cavalry is slaughtered.

1748defense1.jpg


1748defense2.jpg


(8) 1752AD
The calm before the storm.

(9) 1754AD
Monty attacks Besancon once more, but again his attempt ends in failure and his cavalry is forced to withdraw. More seriously, two other cavalry units of his sweep south to pillage the land near PigPen.

My forces are now in place outside Rheims and bombard the defenses down to 18%

(10) 1756AD
Crunch time. Nappy still hasn’t bolstered the garrison of Rheims. My first two cannons reduce the defenses to 0%. The third is sent on a suicide mission and causes significant collateral damage to the defenders.

1756rheims1.jpg


These are all then picked off by my remaining troops (just barely, it has to be said). Rheims is captured and two of my cavalry sweep inside.

1756rheims2.jpg

1756rheims3.jpg


Left unprotected outside are a single grenadier and two cannons. We can only pray that our units will survive and keep Rheims over the next turn…

But every silver lining has a cloud, and while we savour victory in the north Monty is still pillaging at PigPen: we lose 2 cavalry units and 1 rifle trying to kill 2 of his cavalry.

Finally, Nappy has at last got off his backside and has sent a stack down towards Djenne, with support from Monty:

1756stack.jpg


Comments for the next player:
In theory this stack should do very little harm, provided we are careful. What is important to note is that to produce this mini-army Napoleon has virtually emptied Marseilles. If you can defeat it quickly you can probably send a sizable force out from Walata and take Marseilles before Nappy realises what is going on. There is a hill above the city that can be reached in a single turn: fortify on this and then just go for it. Bring up troops from the back lines to replace those you take from Walata.

I would also recommend that you make peace with Monty right away – don’t even wait for the next turn in case he decides to pillage. My guess is that he is pretty much a spent force at the moment: he seems to be sending only single green cavalry units, which suggests that the bulk of his forces was spent on first Cyrus and then us. Nevertheless, he can seriously hinder our actions in France – I think it is better to just focus on one enemy.

If you manage to take Marseilles (and certainly if you fail) my suggestion is that we leave it at that and make peace with Nappy as soon as possible (he is not talking to us at the moment). The reasons should be obvious: we are in a nasty position techwise. I wasn’t able to find any worthwhile deals during my tenure. Nappy actually has machine guns in some of his cities but hasn’t yet brought them south. So, if we are going to take Marseilles it must be sooner rather than later; I really don’t think we will be able to capture anything else now.

As soon as we are at peace, try to sign a defensive pact with at least one leader. The most likely candidates are HC and Cyrus. But remember: once you sign with someone else relations with all other civs will drop by at least one point (“we are annoyed that you have signed a defensive pact with our rivals”). So be careful who you approach first.

And one last thing: for heaven's sake upgrade the defenses at Marooned: there is just a single skirmisher defending at the moment!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Lurker_II_AD-1756.Civ4SavedGame
 
nice turn set scowler, I too figured nappy was caught completely unprepared for this fight. more of mad man monty's doing, that guy is the worst.

Good advice, try and take one more under defended town if able then sue for peace.

great writeup scowler. the harp seal loves you!

my turn is not too long away such that I have no doubt peace will befall us just as liq's turns come up.:mischief:

Think my next pep jpg will be...
puppy_vs_izzy.jpg


Cheers!
-Liq
 
I still wonder if we can make an attempt for a knockout blow at Paris/Orleans?
If he has a MG in one of those cities, we might run out of forces on the right flank before we can take both though.

I hope BlackLuck does his "look at me, I'm all peacefull and shy" act again, and then totally steals another of our enemies cornerstone cities. Heh heh.
* next up, Percinho then Sir T. Unleash the fury, guys!

If we do take marsellies (if I've been spelling this wrong, no offense to the french people. Spelling is NOT my strong suit), we are also close to Monty's capital city.
THAT capital would be the main prize. Budhist holy city! If Monty has indeed stretched himself thin, I wonder if we could make a stab at taking the #1 income earning city in the world from him? We are so close! *It's like stopping outside the walls of moscow*

IF we do decide to go for peace (when we are winning the war?), who should we court as an ally? I think Saladin makes sense, protects our entire western front, almost into our centre. Too bad he won't sign one now. Cyrus? He actually lost a city to monty! (ick ick) I don't like making deals with known losers, but you take what you can sometimes. Hatty, HC or Alex would be both lower down on my list (poor locations, small empires). It would be nice to make a larger friend who may even vote for us in the UN one day.

Scowler. OMG you attacked up the middle? lmao! I just assumed Nappy would have a LOT more troops there. You did very well (casualties had to be accepted, no worries there. Djenne and Walata can replace them very fast). You even captured an Academy at Rheims! That, and our larger empire size, large population will have us pumping out more beakers than our opponents. Their only hope is to all research different techs, and trade them amongst themselves. They sprinted ahead, but we are now set to run a marathon and win against them. We got the numbers now.
(in a few turns we will have the #1 empire size w/most cities, #1 population too). Rheims was Nappy's #3 city. Would like to get another one, but that had to really hurt him. He can kiss his rapid research goodbye now, thanks to you. Scowler fought like Rommel that turn. :)

Aren't we supposed to be producing more great people though? We have some wonder cities. Hmmm. If we get a great scientist (PigPen) do we make an academy in Timbuktu or go for a tech?

And dealing with the pillagers, I think a passive/agressive approach works fine. If they come, hit them when you have a backup unit that can give you the win if your first dies. I like how Scowler does it...
Nappy sending troops to pillage, I take one of Nappy's cities.
If we lose a few tiles, but gain a city, I call that a winning scenario.
flags3xc.gif

Scowler teased me yesterday. tsk tsk tsk. Had me going. Great turn, and I like your turn-logs (picture books are my favorite too, btw).
:goodjob:

Machineguns not good news, BUT... do we want to stop this war?
If we have numbers, and our production can't be beat, we might be able to swarm over Nappy's defenders anyway. I don't like the idea of peace, unless Nappy gives us something huge, like all his techs and a city or two.
(To kill MG, bombard to injure him, attack w/cav to put him into critical, and gren for the win?) more casualties, but taking a city and losing one more unit to do it works for me.

I want Monty's capital. Let them Budhists work for us, not against us for a change! If we do take Marsellies, Monty's capital is right there! Take a left and we might get it? Oooh, the agony of not knowing what will happen next!

SG's are highly stressful. There should be a warning sticky thread about that.
 
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