Perugia
Prince
The site is up again so I've uploaded the file in your name.Doom Train said:
SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Perugia
Prince
As far I know, Dolphan really is up now as he was skipped last time around. groin_apologist is OK too. gskur retired from the game.
We're doing 20 turns apiece to try and meet the Aug 8 deadline. However, victory is more important and we can actually continue beyond the deadline, and carry on posting to the thead. However, we won't qualify for the laurels.
Dolphan (up)
Merum (on deck)
groin_apologist
Perugia
BrianS
goodenuf
Doom_train (resting)
If this is wrong let me know.
gskur (on secondment)
We're doing 20 turns apiece to try and meet the Aug 8 deadline. However, victory is more important and we can actually continue beyond the deadline, and carry on posting to the thead. However, we won't qualify for the laurels.
Dolphan (up)
Merum (on deck)
groin_apologist
Perugia
BrianS
goodenuf
Doom_train (resting)
If this is wrong let me know.
gskur (on secondment)
Perugia said:
But, no matter who builds it, the first vote is always for secretary general. If you are in the top two in population, then you will be involved in this vote wether you build it or not. You need to win this vote in either event to have even half a chance at a diplo victory, so the civics resolutions are not an issue in either event.
If Gandi is #1 in pop, the it is irrelevent who builds it. If Gandi is not #1, then the relevant question is only wether you are more likely to beat Gandi, or the #1 pop guy in the victory election.
Or am I miss-understanding some dynamics (I admit that my only diplo victories ever have come from voting myself in when I controled 63+% of the population).
Perugia
Prince
I looked at the save, Research is looking a bit better now at 70% sci, Electricity due in 9.
Unfortunately the cities are still not optimised. There is too great an emphasis on hammers in places that are building research which is stagnating growth for no reason.
I feel we also need to disband a few of the obsolete units these guys are costing us 28 gpt in support and will be of little use now that rifling is about.
# FDR is willing to give us Rifling or Nationalism, 60g and WM for Physics. We should take Rifling.
# We can renegotiate our fish for 6gpt deal with Sally for 7gpt and our rice deal with Gandhi from 11gpt to 12gpt.
# Persepolis govenor is on for food. This is OK but commerce should also be selected.
# Thebes, Memphis and Heliopolis have stagnated, I think it would be better to have them growing a bit by moving citizen off plains hills onto water tiles to access a little more food. The water tiles each produce 2 commerece so there will be little impact on research.
# Moscow is almost ready to grow but has no surplus food. A bit of MM here will really help. It could work the uranium hill which will be better than leaving that to Sidon as Moscow has more commercial and science buildings than Sidon.
# Elephantine can be MM for more food and commerce and still build Observatory in 8
# There is a village worth 4cpt at pasardadae that is not being worked and one of those annoying AI placed engineers in its place. AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH
# We have a mad worker called Rosicky who has build a useless farm between Elephantine & Heliopolis while we actually need one 2NE1E to irrigate the rice paddy.
# Finally, Susa is up to 21% Egyptian and the chance of revolt has dropped to a mere 0.9%.
The tile 1E is down to 63% Indian and wil soon flip to us.
# Unfortunately Gordium has dropped to 71% Egyption but there no chance of a revolt at the moment. Maybe we should whip the temple there for 1 pop (Due in 33 by build alone which is far too long).
# We are running the 3 "free" civics which is helping the science rate. We can freely change labor civics now but are running Slavery at the moment which allows Persepolis to whip as often as it needs to (we built the Globe Theatre there so there is no unhappiness at all and a food surplus of 16).
Unfortunately the cities are still not optimised. There is too great an emphasis on hammers in places that are building research which is stagnating growth for no reason.
I feel we also need to disband a few of the obsolete units these guys are costing us 28 gpt in support and will be of little use now that rifling is about.
# FDR is willing to give us Rifling or Nationalism, 60g and WM for Physics. We should take Rifling.
# We can renegotiate our fish for 6gpt deal with Sally for 7gpt and our rice deal with Gandhi from 11gpt to 12gpt.
# Persepolis govenor is on for food. This is OK but commerce should also be selected.
# Thebes, Memphis and Heliopolis have stagnated, I think it would be better to have them growing a bit by moving citizen off plains hills onto water tiles to access a little more food. The water tiles each produce 2 commerece so there will be little impact on research.
# Moscow is almost ready to grow but has no surplus food. A bit of MM here will really help. It could work the uranium hill which will be better than leaving that to Sidon as Moscow has more commercial and science buildings than Sidon.
# Elephantine can be MM for more food and commerce and still build Observatory in 8
# There is a village worth 4cpt at pasardadae that is not being worked and one of those annoying AI placed engineers in its place. AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH
# We have a mad worker called Rosicky who has build a useless farm between Elephantine & Heliopolis while we actually need one 2NE1E to irrigate the rice paddy.
# Finally, Susa is up to 21% Egyptian and the chance of revolt has dropped to a mere 0.9%.
The tile 1E is down to 63% Indian and wil soon flip to us.# Unfortunately Gordium has dropped to 71% Egyption but there no chance of a revolt at the moment. Maybe we should whip the temple there for 1 pop (Due in 33 by build alone which is far too long).
# We are running the 3 "free" civics which is helping the science rate. We can freely change labor civics now but are running Slavery at the moment which allows Persepolis to whip as often as it needs to (we built the Globe Theatre there so there is no unhappiness at all and a food surplus of 16).
Perugia
Prince
In addition to the edits I just made to the post below I noticed one more thing...
Our borders in Persepolis have expanded so there are 2 forests we can chop 3 tiles to the S of Susa. This will greatly help build the culture improvements there. One is 3S of Susa the other 2S1SW. We should get some workers to the one 2S1SW urgently and chop it just in case Gandhi's culture takes it back.
Our borders in Persepolis have expanded so there are 2 forests we can chop 3 tiles to the S of Susa. This will greatly help build the culture improvements there. One is 3S of Susa the other 2S1SW. We should get some workers to the one 2S1SW urgently and chop it just in case Gandhi's culture takes it back.
Perugia
Prince
Don't worry, we learn by our mistakes and SG is all about learning so it must be full of mistakes!Dolphan said:
I'll post an updated plan at lunchtime.
BTW Do you think we should take rifling from FDR (Riflemen) or Nationalism (Draft) and open up future deals down that branch.
Perugia
Prince
Here is the latest plan for achieving a Diplo victory. Let me know if anything is missing. (I know it's a bit light on Pop and diplo relations but we are trading with everyone and just need the techs at the moment).
Research
Electricity > Radio > Mass Media
Electricity due in 9 @ 70%
We failed to generate any Great Scientists in the last turnset as changing to the GP spamming civics of Caste System & Pacifism ended up being incompatible with maximising the research rate. Gandhi beat us to Physics by a mere 2 turns and so we ended up with no Great Scientists to set towards Physics or Electricity. With 20-20 hindsight we should have maximised research earlier.
Moving forward we are still in a good position to use some Great Artists to help research Radio & Mass Media. Li Po is sitting in Susa under orders not to culture bomb the city as the culture situation on the Indian border seems to be improving as our capital is now Pasardadae. (The % Indian population and chances of revolt in Gordium, Susa and Bactra still need to be watched).
Moscow is building slowly towards another Great Artist and has something like a 95% chance of generating one. This will need to be speeded up eventually but nothing needs to happen for the next 20 turns except running Artists in the Theatre.
We have a Great engineer that can be moved to Persepolis to eventually build the UN there.
Key Economic Stats
Treasury 2xx +9/Turn @ %30%
Unit Cost 28 (this should be <10)
Unit Supply OK (0 gold, I think)
Military - Size & Disposition
The unit maintenance cost is too high, I recommend you try to reduce this over your turnset to single figures. If I were playing I would disband virtually all axes/swords and most of the chariots while keeping the more useful ones as mps.
My preference for which obsolete units to keep would be 1) any that can be promoted right now to medics 2) any with lots of experience that we might want to upgrade to modern units in an emergency (~14XP or greater) and 3) chariots as they have greater mobility and so make more flexible mps than axes/swords.
This may mean moving some units around before disbanding to maintain enough MPs where needed while making sure the least experienced chaps are the ones disbanded. I'm sure you can manage this.
At this stage I would keep our maces, pikes and knights and rearrange them as mps where necessary and to meet the HC threat. The ones in Persia should mostly be ones with defence promotions.
This will allow us to afford to build riflemen in our Heroic Epic city of Elephantine.
As part of the redeployment we should not actuall disband our galleys. Some should remain at Tarsus/Sidon crossing. The remainder should generally towards HC. In particular I woul dlike to see 2 suicide galleys on each of our water resources off Giza and anywhere else under threat. If HC attacks with a single galleon he will be unable to pillage the workboats like he did just recently. We can have our own galleon in reserve to attack his wounded galleon.
Part A - Important Points
1. HC is not bothering us too much just some naval action. Check our fleet is screening him properly and build more galleons if needed. We can't afford to invade him at the moment or our economy will suffer again.
2. We are running civics which are good for science.
Free Religion
Free Market
Free Speech
There seems little reason to alter these.
We are still in Hereditary Rule as we have not got anything better.
We are in slavery and can whip whatever we like at Persepolis. However, you can freely swap to Serfdom if worker action is needed.
3. Unfortunately the cities are still not optimised. There is too great an emphasis on hammers in places that are building research which is stagnating growth for no reason - see Part B for specifics I have noticed.
4. FDR is willing to give us Rifling or Nationalism, 60g and WM for Physics. We should take Rifling sometime soon.
5. We can renegotiate our fish for 6gpt deal with Sally for 7gpt
6. We can renegotiate our rice deal with Gandhi from 11gpt to 12gpt.
7. Susa is up to 21% Egyptian and the chance of revolt has dropped to a mere 0.9%. The tile 1E is down to 63% Indian and wil soon flip to us. Report on this.
8. Gordium has dropped to 71% Egyption but there no chance of a revolt at the moment. Maybe we should whip the temple there for 1 pop (Due in 33 by build alone which is far too long).
9. Our borders in Persepolis have expanded so there are 2 forests we can chop 3 tiles to the S of Susa. This will greatly help build the culture improvements there. One is 3S of Susa the other 2S1SW. We should get some workers to the one 2S1SW urgently and chop it just in case Gandhi's culture takes it back.
10. We have a mad worker called Rosicky who has build a useless farm between Elephantine & Heliopolis while we actually need one 2NE1E to irrigate the rice paddy. Please get this to happen.
11. I think we can now build lumbermills in our forests. Any forest being worked should obviously have one as a matter of urgency.
Part B - Micromanagement (MM)
# Persepolis govenor is on for food. This is OK but commerce should also be selected.
# Thebes, Memphis and Heliopolis have stagnated, I think it would be better to have them growing a bit by moving citizen off plains hills onto water tiles to access a little more food. The water tiles each produce 2 commerce so there will be little impact on research.
# Moscow is almost ready to grow but has no surplus food. A bit of MM here will really help. It could work the uranium hill which will be better than leaving that to Sidon as Moscow has more commercial and science buildings than Sidon.
# Elephantine can be MM for more food and commerce and still build Observatory in 8
# There is a village worth 4cpt at pasardadae that is not being worked and one of those annoying AI placed engineers in its place. AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH
Research
Electricity > Radio > Mass Media
Electricity due in 9 @ 70%
We failed to generate any Great Scientists in the last turnset as changing to the GP spamming civics of Caste System & Pacifism ended up being incompatible with maximising the research rate. Gandhi beat us to Physics by a mere 2 turns and so we ended up with no Great Scientists to set towards Physics or Electricity. With 20-20 hindsight we should have maximised research earlier.
Moving forward we are still in a good position to use some Great Artists to help research Radio & Mass Media. Li Po is sitting in Susa under orders not to culture bomb the city as the culture situation on the Indian border seems to be improving as our capital is now Pasardadae. (The % Indian population and chances of revolt in Gordium, Susa and Bactra still need to be watched).
Moscow is building slowly towards another Great Artist and has something like a 95% chance of generating one. This will need to be speeded up eventually but nothing needs to happen for the next 20 turns except running Artists in the Theatre.
We have a Great engineer that can be moved to Persepolis to eventually build the UN there.
Key Economic Stats
Treasury 2xx +9/Turn @ %30%
Unit Cost 28 (this should be <10)
Unit Supply OK (0 gold, I think)
Military - Size & Disposition
The unit maintenance cost is too high, I recommend you try to reduce this over your turnset to single figures. If I were playing I would disband virtually all axes/swords and most of the chariots while keeping the more useful ones as mps.
My preference for which obsolete units to keep would be 1) any that can be promoted right now to medics 2) any with lots of experience that we might want to upgrade to modern units in an emergency (~14XP or greater) and 3) chariots as they have greater mobility and so make more flexible mps than axes/swords.
This may mean moving some units around before disbanding to maintain enough MPs where needed while making sure the least experienced chaps are the ones disbanded. I'm sure you can manage this.
At this stage I would keep our maces, pikes and knights and rearrange them as mps where necessary and to meet the HC threat. The ones in Persia should mostly be ones with defence promotions.
This will allow us to afford to build riflemen in our Heroic Epic city of Elephantine.
As part of the redeployment we should not actuall disband our galleys. Some should remain at Tarsus/Sidon crossing. The remainder should generally towards HC. In particular I woul dlike to see 2 suicide galleys on each of our water resources off Giza and anywhere else under threat. If HC attacks with a single galleon he will be unable to pillage the workboats like he did just recently. We can have our own galleon in reserve to attack his wounded galleon.
Part A - Important Points
1. HC is not bothering us too much just some naval action. Check our fleet is screening him properly and build more galleons if needed. We can't afford to invade him at the moment or our economy will suffer again.
2. We are running civics which are good for science.
Free Religion
Free Market
Free Speech
There seems little reason to alter these.
We are still in Hereditary Rule as we have not got anything better.
We are in slavery and can whip whatever we like at Persepolis. However, you can freely swap to Serfdom if worker action is needed.
3. Unfortunately the cities are still not optimised. There is too great an emphasis on hammers in places that are building research which is stagnating growth for no reason - see Part B for specifics I have noticed.
4. FDR is willing to give us Rifling or Nationalism, 60g and WM for Physics. We should take Rifling sometime soon.
5. We can renegotiate our fish for 6gpt deal with Sally for 7gpt
6. We can renegotiate our rice deal with Gandhi from 11gpt to 12gpt.
7. Susa is up to 21% Egyptian and the chance of revolt has dropped to a mere 0.9%.
The tile 1E is down to 63% Indian and wil soon flip to us. Report on this.8. Gordium has dropped to 71% Egyption but there no chance of a revolt at the moment. Maybe we should whip the temple there for 1 pop (Due in 33 by build alone which is far too long).
9. Our borders in Persepolis have expanded so there are 2 forests we can chop 3 tiles to the S of Susa. This will greatly help build the culture improvements there. One is 3S of Susa the other 2S1SW. We should get some workers to the one 2S1SW urgently and chop it just in case Gandhi's culture takes it back.
10. We have a mad worker called Rosicky who has build a useless farm between Elephantine & Heliopolis while we actually need one 2NE1E to irrigate the rice paddy. Please get this to happen.
11. I think we can now build lumbermills in our forests. Any forest being worked should obviously have one as a matter of urgency.
Part B - Micromanagement (MM)
# Persepolis govenor is on for food. This is OK but commerce should also be selected.
# Thebes, Memphis and Heliopolis have stagnated, I think it would be better to have them growing a bit by moving citizen off plains hills onto water tiles to access a little more food. The water tiles each produce 2 commerce so there will be little impact on research.
# Moscow is almost ready to grow but has no surplus food. A bit of MM here will really help. It could work the uranium hill which will be better than leaving that to Sidon as Moscow has more commercial and science buildings than Sidon.
# Elephantine can be MM for more food and commerce and still build Observatory in 8
# There is a village worth 4cpt at pasardadae that is not being worked and one of those annoying AI placed engineers in its place. AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH
OK, I'm halfway through the first turn. I've done some disbanding, and micromanaged most cities on our original continent to start them growing again. Thing is, we didn't actually have that many old units - something like two swords and an axe. The vast majority of our units are maces, longbows, and cats. I've disbanded all but two or three of the chariots - most were only on level 1. MPs don't look hugely important as almost our cities are all miles out of unhappiness thanks to resources and buildings, so should I disband the remaining chariots? All they have is either C2 or C1 and flanking. Thoughts on what else to disband? We're still on 21 unit upkeep. The MM hasn't made any difference at all to the tech rate, as the hammers were changed to commerce like Perugia said, but we should now have a round of growth in our main cities in 12-16 turns.
Big thing that I stopped for - for physics, FDR will not only give us rifling but will also redeclare on HC. I can't see any reason not to take this, as we only have +1 mutual struggle with HC, and he is +8 to us, +6 to Gandhi. We want a bigger difference than that! We are first in pop, but not by much. I can't see us winning the vote with just FDR, so we might have to butter up Saladin as well?
Big thing that I stopped for - for physics, FDR will not only give us rifling but will also redeclare on HC. I can't see any reason not to take this, as we only have +1 mutual struggle with HC, and he is +8 to us, +6 to Gandhi. We want a bigger difference than that! We are first in pop, but not by much. I can't see us winning the vote with just FDR, so we might have to butter up Saladin as well?
Perugia
Prince
@Dolphan. I think you are developing a good strategy for the Diplo win. If we can butter up FDR any way we can then we should. Making him redeclare on HC sounds brilliant - sorry for not mentioning this in the plan I did see it in the save but forgot.
Getting as friendly as we can with Saladin sounds good also. I can't see any harm in being generous in fact not only might he vote for us or at least abstain but he is more useful if not too far behind technically.
The military is going to need to be modernised to deal with HC either on our continent or his. Grabbing a few HC cities in the end game may become vital to boost our vote. Therefore ancient era stuff has to be considered expendable. We are probably still 50 turns from mass media so at 21gpt the excess military will cost over 1000 gold.
How about something a little evil - move the remaining chariots and anything else not needed to Indian territory (the silver town north of Memphis or Indian mainland) then gift them to Gandhi so he gets the burden instead.
We can keep doing this as we upgrade the military to modern stuff.
Getting as friendly as we can with Saladin sounds good also. I can't see any harm in being generous in fact not only might he vote for us or at least abstain but he is more useful if not too far behind technically.
The military is going to need to be modernised to deal with HC either on our continent or his. Grabbing a few HC cities in the end game may become vital to boost our vote. Therefore ancient era stuff has to be considered expendable. We are probably still 50 turns from mass media so at 21gpt the excess military will cost over 1000 gold.
How about something a little evil - move the remaining chariots and anything else not needed to Indian territory (the silver town north of Memphis or Indian mainland) then gift them to Gandhi so he gets the burden instead.
We can keep doing this as we upgrade the military to modern stuff.
Goodenuf
Warlord
Perugia said:
That is so evil...
I like it! It's so crazy it just might work!
Right, I'll play the full 20 or until something comes up tomorrow, and will gift Gandhi some units - although I'm guessing its better to disband the more upgradeable cats and maces if necessary. I will try and get support down to less than 10 without compromising our forces too much, but as we won't have the cash for upgrading anyway I won't worry too much about keeping them - we need defence and then if we have to take cities later it'll be rifles and grenades.
Perugia
Prince
True at the moment but don't forget once we have mass media we can, if we want, go 100% cash and get money for upgrades. It will be at least 10 turns to the final vote so that's a lot of money.Dolphan said:
During the end game, these troops can be stationed in Giza and will reach the front faster than new rifles and grenadiers built further away from the front during those 10 turns.
I've played 18 turns. Nothing major came up at the end, I just got mixed up remembering the turn numbers again!
1610 AD, turn 0 - MM for growth and some disbanding, other units sent to Gandhi to be gifted as Perugia suggested. Traded physics for rifling, cash, and war on HC from FDR. This works - by the end of the turnset, FDR is +12 with us and 'friendly'. Trade crab to Sally for his 1 gpt rather than renegotiating the existing deal to try and get the 'we appreciate the resources' bonus up.
1613, turn 1 - send Rosicky to fill in the gap and irrigate the rice near Thebes. Begin building lumbermills in workable forest squares, which continues all through the turnset.
1619, turn 2 - Gifted our two spare resources to Sally. We can cancel if we need them for anything.
1625, turn 4 - Whipped temple in Gordium as it was on the point of growth.
1634, turn 7 - Gandhi builds statue of liberty for free specialists, which is quite a good one unfortunately. Gift scientific method to Sally.
1637, turn 8 - We get electricity. Gandhi doesn't have it yet. 18 turns to radio.
1643, turn 10 - Electricity to FDR for chemistry, nationalism, WM, and 120 gold.
1646, turn 11 - Finish a windmill 2E of Susa, with the electricity bonus this gives the city a boost (note - unfortunately neither Susa nor Gordium flips any tiles this turnset).
1649, turn 12 - Send a knight from Susa to Gordium, balancing out the revolt chances to about 1.5% each.
1658, turn 15 - We can afford science at 80% now, at about -30 GPT with plenty in the treasury. Radio in 9.
1667, turn 18 - Trade Sally physics for constitution and switch to representation (our luxuries make MPs fairly pointless, no city is near unhappiness after the switch). The +3 science per specialist knocks radio down from 6 turns to 5. Turn left unfinished.
Conclusions
I haven't seen HC once this turnset. He may have gone off to fight FDR. Saladin doesn't like Gandhi, so there is no danger of Gandhi winning the vote at all - in fact, our pop lead on him has extended to about 6%. He also still doesn't have electricity, so it seems he isn't going for the UN. Sally is only pleased with us at the moment and my gifts don't seem to have helped, so I highly recommend we switch to Theocracy (probably no state religion) after getting mass media, to build a 'you have chosen your civics wisely' bonus. If we're lucky, this will tip him enough to make him willing to attack HC, which would do the trick. The switch to Theocracy could possibly cause happiness issues - I recommend the next player check how much happiness is due to free religion, and if necessary switch back to hereditary rule at the same time. We won't need the extra science anymore and it'll save upkeep as well. I think if we can get Saladin to vote for us we might not have to attack HC, but if we do, remember that keeping his cities is not essential if its too difficult. Razing most of them would swing the balance in our favour anyway.
We should probably go flat out for mass media when we get radio, spend all our cash and use Li Po to knock a turn off it. Our engineer is in Persepolis ready to help out the UN.
1610 AD, turn 0 - MM for growth and some disbanding, other units sent to Gandhi to be gifted as Perugia suggested. Traded physics for rifling, cash, and war on HC from FDR. This works - by the end of the turnset, FDR is +12 with us and 'friendly'. Trade crab to Sally for his 1 gpt rather than renegotiating the existing deal to try and get the 'we appreciate the resources' bonus up.
1613, turn 1 - send Rosicky to fill in the gap and irrigate the rice near Thebes. Begin building lumbermills in workable forest squares, which continues all through the turnset.
1619, turn 2 - Gifted our two spare resources to Sally. We can cancel if we need them for anything.
1625, turn 4 - Whipped temple in Gordium as it was on the point of growth.
1634, turn 7 - Gandhi builds statue of liberty for free specialists, which is quite a good one unfortunately. Gift scientific method to Sally.
1637, turn 8 - We get electricity. Gandhi doesn't have it yet. 18 turns to radio.
1643, turn 10 - Electricity to FDR for chemistry, nationalism, WM, and 120 gold.
1646, turn 11 - Finish a windmill 2E of Susa, with the electricity bonus this gives the city a boost (note - unfortunately neither Susa nor Gordium flips any tiles this turnset).
1649, turn 12 - Send a knight from Susa to Gordium, balancing out the revolt chances to about 1.5% each.
1658, turn 15 - We can afford science at 80% now, at about -30 GPT with plenty in the treasury. Radio in 9.
1667, turn 18 - Trade Sally physics for constitution and switch to representation (our luxuries make MPs fairly pointless, no city is near unhappiness after the switch). The +3 science per specialist knocks radio down from 6 turns to 5. Turn left unfinished.
Conclusions
I haven't seen HC once this turnset. He may have gone off to fight FDR. Saladin doesn't like Gandhi, so there is no danger of Gandhi winning the vote at all - in fact, our pop lead on him has extended to about 6%. He also still doesn't have electricity, so it seems he isn't going for the UN. Sally is only pleased with us at the moment and my gifts don't seem to have helped, so I highly recommend we switch to Theocracy (probably no state religion) after getting mass media, to build a 'you have chosen your civics wisely' bonus. If we're lucky, this will tip him enough to make him willing to attack HC, which would do the trick. The switch to Theocracy could possibly cause happiness issues - I recommend the next player check how much happiness is due to free religion, and if necessary switch back to hereditary rule at the same time. We won't need the extra science anymore and it'll save upkeep as well. I think if we can get Saladin to vote for us we might not have to attack HC, but if we do, remember that keeping his cities is not essential if its too difficult. Razing most of them would swing the balance in our favour anyway.
We should probably go flat out for mass media when we get radio, spend all our cash and use Li Po to knock a turn off it. Our engineer is in Persepolis ready to help out the UN.
Perugia
Prince
Merum you are up.
Dolphan, you just played an exemplary turnset. I like the way you tried to butter up Saladin - it's a shame it seems not to be working as well as you hoped. Good point about Theocracy we should try that to see if it will swing him over. I like the gifting and extra trade.
I agree that Merum should check how dependant we are on Free Religion for happiness - hopefully we only need it for the 10% science and can switch to Theocracy and no state religion.
Before proceeding we should check if its worth going for another artist at Moscow using caste system and possibly pacifism. 2 Artists woul dreally eat into the Mass Media research time.
However, to go for pacifism we would first have to revolt to no state religion. This would have to happen as soon as we can as we would have to wait another 5 turns before a second revolution to drop Free Religion in favour of Pacifism and then later Theocracy - without getting heathen diplomacy minuses. This will take at least 16 turns as we only just revoloted to constitution (which in itself was a great science boosting move).
If we forget pacifism we can switch to caste system and theocracy but that will be quite expensive.
Dolphan, you just played an exemplary turnset. I like the way you tried to butter up Saladin - it's a shame it seems not to be working as well as you hoped. Good point about Theocracy we should try that to see if it will swing him over. I like the gifting and extra trade.
I agree that Merum should check how dependant we are on Free Religion for happiness - hopefully we only need it for the 10% science and can switch to Theocracy and no state religion.
Before proceeding we should check if its worth going for another artist at Moscow using caste system and possibly pacifism. 2 Artists woul dreally eat into the Mass Media research time.
However, to go for pacifism we would first have to revolt to no state religion. This would have to happen as soon as we can as we would have to wait another 5 turns before a second revolution to drop Free Religion in favour of Pacifism and then later Theocracy - without getting heathen diplomacy minuses. This will take at least 16 turns as we only just revoloted to constitution (which in itself was a great science boosting move).
If we forget pacifism we can switch to caste system and theocracy but that will be quite expensive.
Perugia
Prince
I don't think much will change on the strategic side in the next few turns so....
What does everyone think of Merum going ahead and playing a few turns (3 maybe 4) using exactly the same strategy of pushing science and being friendly to FDR & Saladin the Dolphan just showed us.
I'm thinking of us discussing in detail the situation when we can look a save closer to the next allowed revolution which probably will be a big decision for us ie whether to go No State Religion or not.
What does everyone think of Merum going ahead and playing a few turns (3 maybe 4) using exactly the same strategy of pushing science and being friendly to FDR & Saladin the Dolphan just showed us.
I'm thinking of us discussing in detail the situation when we can look a save closer to the next allowed revolution which probably will be a big decision for us ie whether to go No State Religion or not.
Goodenuf
Warlord
Perugia said:
Sounds good to me... 3 or 4 turns will give us a better scope on some decisions here.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Got the save and have opened it. Won't be able to look extensively or play any until tomorrow night, but I can make Giza give us a GP in 7 turns without a civic switch. it's about 2:1 great scientist:great artist right now.
We have -3 with Saladin for trading with his worst enemy, and he's best buds with HC. Furthering the relationship beyond where it is is going to be a neat trick, considering we have to keep trading with Ghandi and FDR to keep up.
FDR has steel.
Gordium revolt chance is up to 8.03%.
Nice set of turns, Dolphan.
I'll watch the thread as much as I can from work tomorrow, and play tomorrow night, 4-5 turns or so and post up.
We have -3 with Saladin for trading with his worst enemy, and he's best buds with HC. Furthering the relationship beyond where it is is going to be a neat trick, considering we have to keep trading with Ghandi and FDR to keep up.
FDR has steel.
Gordium revolt chance is up to 8.03%.
Nice set of turns, Dolphan.
I'll watch the thread as much as I can from work tomorrow, and play tomorrow night, 4-5 turns or so and post up.
Perugia
Prince
@Merum #619
I'll look at the save myself after work this afternoon (Friday = 1/2 day) to see if I can add anything before you start tonight.
I'll look at the save myself after work this afternoon (Friday = 1/2 day) to see if I can add anything before you start tonight.
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