SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element

Perugia · Jul 10, 2006

This post is to clarify how the planning system will change when I am up or resting to avoid needless time wasting.

When Perugia is up (that's me), there's no point in publishing a final plan for myself to read (I'm not that mad just yet! I'll just take your ideas on board, and include my captain's adjudication in my turnset instead of a plan.

Likewise, when I'm resting (like now) I'm supposed to write the draft plan and then, as captain, collate this into the final plan. Due to timezones this will add a 24Hr delay. None of us would mind this where there are loads of decisions to be made or ideas floating around that need collating. But if there is little dissent it does not make sense for the player up after me to wait.

So the rule is different when I'm resting, I just publish a draft plan after my turnset and then everyone else has an opportunity to comment in the "old fashioned way". The player up after me then either post their own plan or request me to post one. This will help with timezone issues.

Perugia · Jul 10, 2006

@Doom_Train

I'm so impressed I think it can be published right now. Well done!

If anyone has any amendments for the spoiler please pm Doom_Train directly to avoid cluttering up this thread. Congratulations are welcome here.

Merum · Jul 10, 2006

Oh boy I just had an evil thought...

Take Libyan from Cyrus, keep it for a little while to milk what we can, and then...

Gift it to FDR!

If FDR takes the bait he'll end up with an albatross right smack in the middle of India, and it will cause that relationship to get negative points for "close borders" :mischief:

Assuming they don't constantly run open borders, and I'm sure we can drive enough of a wedge between them to make that stop.

Anyway, just an idea.

Doom Train, the spoiler looks great to me. Nice job! The only change I recommend is to cut the scores off the right side of the screenshots, as our competitors have.

Perugia · Jul 10, 2006

@Merum 543

Right on! There's enough consensus on Libyan. Capture it. Milk it (how about dropping into slavery and whipping a unit or two). Convert to Buddhist if not already. Then gift to AI FDR if possible, then Saladin if hell take it otherwise Gandhi who won't refuse. I'll add this to the next plan as it won't happen this turnset.

BrianS - Just a reminder that the main plan is at post #532
Choose the civics wisely and keep switching them for immediate benefit - you'll be able to revolt twice in the turnset if you wish.

I recommend synchronising running organised religion with allowing chops to complete with 25% more hammers going towards a building or wonder (the workers can always be interrupted with 1 or 2 turns left to ensure this).

To meet the plan for culture bombing Gordium and Susa, and when the chops are over or interrupted, we need caste system and pacifism so we can spam artists in the cities that will get the next great people (Moscow + one other). With Caste System we can also have more than 2 scientists in the cities with universities and acadamies to speed Scientific Method.

Eventual Great People target would be 2 artists urgently needed, 1 scientist to rush Physics and a 2nd Engineer. So if a scientist or eng pops out instead of artist its OK as we need them later (just need to focus more on artists for next Great Person).

Dolphan · Jul 10, 2006

Minor point - when Persia gets wiped out, the Persians in our cities will indeed turn Egyptian.

BrianS · Jul 11, 2006

I've played a few turns tonight, and here is my partial turn log. Let me know if you have any thoughts before I play the remainder of the turns tomorrow.

Pre-Turn 1454 AD
Mace at Pasargadae takes out catapult 1N.

Caravel SW of HC island heads north to see what HC is up to. Ooohh, not good. Vilcabamba has in port an attack force of 2 galleons loaded with 2 crosses, 1 knight and 1 catapult. 2 caravels are also docked there. A couple of more units, and these galleons will move out.

Apprentice moves to forest E of Thebes, will start chop next turn.

Rosicky starts chop E of Memphis in designated spot

Turn 1 1460

IBT: Cyrus knight attacks pike at Pasargadae instead of taking it to Bactra. Pike is successful but is at 1.2!! Pike is upgraded to Combat 1.

Caravel scouting HC island takes a peek at Tiwanaku - no galleons there, so it looks like the naval attack force is gathering in Vilchamba.

Tarsusian comletes forge at Sidon, and citizen starts working it. 1 worker is moved via galleys towards Arbela.

New catapults move to position on hill S of Bactra, and existing cat continues bombardment.

Elephantine: Buddhist Temple > Pikeman

Switch to Free Speech/Decentralization
Pre: Gold 47, Prod 212. -42 GPT at 50% research, 10% culture
MM: Gold 109, Prod 187, -5 GPT at 50% research, 10% culture

Move Pikeman out of Moscow towards North to protect against HC invasion. [Had to move back to Moscow next turn due to increasing war weariness in Moscow. Must remember to move north again now that we have peace]

Whip university in Giza

Change Harbor in Sidon to Granary

Turn 2 1466

Tarsus goes into rebellion.

Worker mines copper at Arbela

Catapults reduce Bactra defenses to 0. Next turn, Bactra dies. Valkimi is with forces outside Bactra, ready to culture bomb immediately upon capture.

Giza: University > Bank

Here is a screenshot of HC's naval force in Vilcabamba - forgot to take a picture earlier.

Turn 3 1472

Cyrus asks for peace. As if...we have work to do, maybe later.

Cyrus completes mace in Susa. Must be getting metal in trade.

Mace moved from Pasargadae to Persepolis to join lone mace defending Pasargadae.

Time to take Bactra, which is still defended by long and pike. Suicide cat 1 survives its suicide attempt to fight another day, reducing long to 5.2 and pike to 5.4. Suicide cat 2 goes in...and also survives! Long now at 1, pike at 4.8. With odds now at 99.9%, might as well try the mace...oh yeah - the pike is dead. In goes the knight to take out the long, and Bactra is ours, without a casualty.

Valmiki strolls into Bactra and creates a great work. What a lovely sight...

Even with culture bomb, Bactra feels the pressure of 100% Susa,

2 forests cleared, creating 108 for Heliopolis. University is now due in 5, but can be whipped with 2 pop, so the citizens feel the lash.

Medic explorer arrives in Pasargadae to help heal remaining wounded units.

Theatre started in Bactra

Peace is now offered to Cyrus, and he gives us all he has - 10 gold + 1 gpt. I asked for Gordium, but he thought I was nuts.

We'll be leaving slavery soon, so whip what makes sense now:

:whipped:

The National Epic in Moscow. While costing 7 population, this will get the NE in place before we start trying to create a GA in Moscow.

:whipped:

university in Alex.

:whipped:

galleon in Pi-Ramesses for good measure.

Ack -- I just realized a costly mistake. I didn't cut road near iron. Now Cyrus still has this.

And what is our buddy FDR up to?

Perugia · Jul 11, 2006

Brilliant - turnset! Here are my initials comments but I will look again later.

I like the scouting around to see what HC is up to. We don't have a strong enough navy to stop 2 galleons + 2 caravels at see but you seem to be moving counter-force units up North in preparation.

Check we have a sufficient road network on the E coasts to easily move our counter force to the likely landing spot so they only use 1/3 movement to attack.

Nice whipping. Can we whip the Globe Theatre as well?

With dropping out of mercantilism & making peace we need to check each city for governor errors but I expect u have that under control.

Perugia · Jul 11, 2006

Apprentice moves to forest E of Thebes, will start chop next turn.

Rosicky starts chop E of Memphis in designated spot

I think you mean W of Thebes not E. Anyway if the forest is outside the fat cross that's OK.

Forget my premature suggestion about whipping the Globe Theatre. Unless Persepolis is actually unhappy it's pointless.

The pressure on Bactra might recede a bit as the tiles right next to it will gradualy turn more Egyptian. Mouse over them to check. We need to keep building culture in the Persian cities.

I think we now have our own silk plantation on line near Arbela (resources not shown in the screenie so its hard to tell) If we do, you can cancel the deal with Gandhi when the 10 turns are up.

Speaking of expired deals, in a few turns some of the resource for cash deals will have also run 10 turns and you can check if the AI have any spare gold so we can renegotiate for more cash.

Turning to the East, we'll need a large reception committee ready to welcome the HC force. A couple of catapults could do great collateral damage if they can attack him on the beachhead before his force gets a chance to spread out. HCs C2knight is a pain as it can both move and pillage one of our towns on the same turn.

I suspect FDRs galleon could be heading through the Elephantine canal to colonise one of the small islands to the NW. This would be good as we can take it over if need be to get some more votes during the end game. Just a thought, it might be worth shadowing with our galleon so if HC attacks it and wins with a galleon then our galleon can clean up the wounded HC galleon.

Missionaries under construction warning. One small thing we need to watch out for is once we learn scientific method we can only build missionaries with organised religion. It's also easy to lose hammers on any missionaries being built when sci method is learnt and/or when changing from organised religion to another civic.

@Dolphan. Thanks for the confirmation about wiping out Persia.

Perugia · Jul 11, 2006

@BrianS Never mind about not cutting the road. You said Cyrus was trading for metal and would have reconnected it anyway during the peace.

Goodenuf · Jul 11, 2006

Back from camping; a bit sunburned, but otherwise doing well. Good to see that we're moving forward. Thx for switching spots, BrianS. Now I have time to catch up and be ready for my turnset.

BrianS · Jul 11, 2006

Thanks for the comments Perugia. I have been MM the cities, just didn't give all the details in report. General plan is to switch to caste as soon as I can, and load up on artists. Also will build out military to counter expected HC invasion and to finish off Cyrus. Will queue builds with 1 turn to complete with idea we switch back to Vass (and possibly theo) to complete builds.

Will check on silks tonight.

BrianS · Jul 12, 2006

My last 6 turns were much less eventful than the first three.

Turn 4 1478

Sidon: Granary > Library
Excess of Galleys in Persia, so start 2 towards east cost of Egypt.

Bactra: Whip Theatre - really need culture more than anything at this point. Honestly, I'm not usually this fond of the whip - this just seems the right time for it.

Start moving caravel E of Inca to our east coast to join scouting caravel. Need some naval defense.

Send Aaron to North end of island to work on roads.

Yes, Gandhi did settle the island to the south of us:

Heliopolis: University>Catapult
Elephantine: Pikeman (1 turn) queued > Catapult
Moscow: National Epic> Maceman
Alex: University > Catapult
Pi-Ramesses: Galleon > Galleon
Pasargadae: Still 1 turn to revolt, but change courthouse in queue to theatre. I really think we need culture first, then work on reducing maintenance with cthouse or FP.

With happiness abundant, culture slider is dropped to 0, and research is increased to 60%. Scientific method will now complete in 12 instead of 15.

Turn 5 1484
Tarsus and Pasargadae come out of revolt, and Persepolis expands.

Cyrus takes open borders, so we take it and start moving troops for the last assault against him.

Tarsus: Theatre > Granary
Bactra: Theatre > Buddhist Temple
Heliopolis: Catapult (1 turn) queued > Pikeman

Pasargadae is starving with lots of citizens, so whip Theatre. Still starving, so hopefully will expand soon.

Turn 6 1490

HC's caravel shows up at S of continent. Our caravels guarding southern ice straits are moved to fish and crabs for protection.

Pasargadae: Theatre > Courthouse
Elephantine: Cat (1 turn) queued > Mace

Turn 7 1496

Pasargadae expands, can now work enough tiles to expand.

Switch to Caste/Pacifism, which gives a commerce hit, but necessary for GA production.

Moscow, Thebes and Giza get the artists to try for a GA.

Turn 8 1502

Continued MM, movement of forces in India,

Turn 9 1508

MOTSS, worker starts mine outside Persepolis

Turn 10 1514

Bactra goes into revolt.
Memphis: Catapult>Catapult (forgot to let this queue last time)
Alex: Cat (1 turn) gueued > Knight
Elephantine: Mace (1 turn) queued>Cross

Saladin will take printing press for gunpowder. Other deals may also be open. Leave this for the next player.

PLAN

1. A number of military units are queued with 1 turn to build. After we pop a GA or two, suggest switching Vass/Theo and completing these units.

2. I'm not sure we have enough military in Persia to complete the job on Cyrus. There is a stack near each of the Persian cities. The lightest is next to Susa, which may require the most military. However, it is the easiest to get to, so I thought it could be more easily supplemented. Also, I was going to move the catapult which was healing in Bactra, but just before it healed the revolt occurred, causing it further damage. I have moved it into Egyptian territory, but it should go to Susa as soon as it is healed.

3. Strongly suggest getting gunpowder from Saladin while we can. He wanted Banking and Education for it, but will take Printing Press. Other trades may be available. Most of the other civs now have gunpowder, including HC.

4. I wasn't sure what to do with the galleons at this point. I haven't wanted to move the settler from his position on the south coast, as we still may need him to protect that remaining open tile. One galleon is now somewhat centrally at port in Heliopolis, and the other is almost complete in Pi-Rammeses. I hadn't started another settler, which may have been a mistake, but I was nervous about our military and infrastructure, so focused on those.

5. It will be another 5 or 6 turns before any great people start popping. I think I've maxed out GP production in the 3 cities focused on it, but you might do better than me. I loaded 3 cities with artists rather than 2 because we are heavily weighted towards GS, and I wanted to increase chances of getting a GA.

6. Keep a close eye on developments in Vilcabamba. If HC goes on the move, we may need to revolt to Vass/Theo sooner than planned to complete military builds and get them in place. I've moved some units up, but we are still light to fend off a significant attack in the north.

Here are some screenies of North Persia:

South Persia:

Vilcabamba (only thing new is one more cat loaded in the second galley):

Good luck Goodenuf!!

BrianS · Jul 12, 2006

Here's my session Log:

Spoiler :

And a link to the save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Fifth_Element_SG001_AD1514_01.Civ4SavedGame

Perugia · Jul 12, 2006

Just a short post to throw ideas into the pot.

Assuming the Americans are still at war with the Inca, should we ask FDR to attack a specific Incan city. At this stage it does not matter where as FDR is unlikely to succeed but it would stir things up a bit. Later we could orchestrate an Egyptian/American attack on Vilcabamba. This could be excellent as we can stack with the Americans and gain protection from them as there's only one tile to attack the city from. Only downside is its not a hill or forest.

@BrianS. Can you confirm the Bactran revolt was a Persian revolt or was it by chance an Indian revolt which would be really disasterous as we couldn't recapture it on a flip.

Doom Train · Jul 12, 2006

Perugia turn log says its a Persian Revolt...

Turn 308, 1508 AD: A Persian revolt has taken place in Bactra!

Excellent turnset BrainS and very nice plan. I ll look at the save and post my suggestions later.

BrianS · Jul 12, 2006

One other thing - I haven't canceled the silk deal with Gandhi. I was checking it reglarly and it was too early to cancel, but I think I may not have checked the last turn or two, and it can probably be canceled now.

Merum · Jul 12, 2006

Quick thoughts: We are 142(!) turns from Mass Media. We have to speed up research, by hook or by crook. One way we can do that is by spamming Buddhism across India, assuming Ghandi's not running a civic that doesn't allow it. Switching to Free Religion and staying there as much as possible will help as well by giving us the 10% research boost.

Physics will give us a GS, which will help us to cut the research time down by a couple thousand beakers, at least.

Goodenuf · Jul 12, 2006

Nice turnset Brian. I've inherited an interesting position. I'm at work right now, so I can't review the save file. I will download the save tonight and put together a plan of attack (so to speak) for review by all, and play the turns tomorrow night.

The attack force HC is putting together is a concern, but I'd like to see Persia finished off first if possible.

Are we able to actually coordinate with FDR on attacks against HC? Is it part of the Diplomacy screen? Obviously a 'feature' I haven't noticed before... learn something new everyday I suppose.

RE:Bactra revolt; that's gotta be the first time i've seen a revolt so soon after a culture bomb was placed. That's only 6 turns. Susa obviously is very strong culturally to make that kind of push.

Merum · Jul 12, 2006

I was just reading the maintenance thread, and the 8 August cutoff is now official. We better move smartly.

Doom Train · Jul 12, 2006

Should we extend tursets to 20?

SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element

Prince

Prince

Permanent Jet Lag

Prince

Warlord

Prince

Prince

Prince

Prince

Warlord

Prince

Prince

Prince

Prince

Warlord

Prince

Permanent Jet Lag

Warlord

Permanent Jet Lag

Warlord

Similar threads