The Keeper
Warlord
Good call on rushing that settler - well played.
SGOTM 01 - madviking
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Krockel
Warlord
Great work getting Memphis settled! If we get that cow from Cathy, which I think we will when our border pops, Memphis will be a early production power house.
Memphis
...........
City: 2/1/1
Cow: 4/2/0
Bronze: 2/4/0
Mined plain hills: 2 * 0/4/0
--------------------------
Total: 15 hammers
I believe that's among the best Ive ever seen for a size 4 city.
Is Horseback riding really worth 31 turn (plus some turns for archery) of our research?
Comparison (WC vs. HA)
.................................
Strenghth: 5 - 6
Speed: 2 - 2
Hammers: 25 - 50
Equal abilities: Immune to first strike. Doesnt receive defensive bonuses.
Different abilities: Can withdraw from combat (20% chance) - +50% attack vs. Catapults
I believe they can be considered as equal, HA is a little stronger but WC have a more useful bonus at this stage. We get two WC for the cost of one HA. So I vote for take another research path.
The techs we can research at present are:
........................................................
1. Fishing: We do have some sea resources around.
2. Writing: Library for more research and Open Boarders for scouting Mother Russia. Also leads to Maths, which leads to construction and currency.
3. Horseback Riding: HA and later Knights, Cossacks.
4. Hunting: For Spearmen and leads to Archery. Good for city defends and against Chariots/HA.
5. Mysticism: For Oracle-run and snatching Cods of Laws, Civil Service, Metal Casting or Alphabet.
6. Masonry: For quarry by Thebes and shot at pyramids.
7. Metal Casting: Forges and Colossus. Expensive tech.
8. Iron Working: For location of iron and Swordsmen for better city attack.
Among these I think 3. and 7. is the only which not gives us any benefits right now. MC is to expensive and HBR will not get useful pre-knights.
My vote goes to Writing followed by Masonry and Mathematics. A library and some cottage in Thebes give our research a real boost. Masonry gives Thebes a real good production tile (5 hammers) and a chance to build pyramids, which is historically right....
Whit mathematics wills the pyramid chop generate more shields and depending on the results from coming military campaign can Catapults be needed.
Ahhh.... what to do, what to do....
Memphis
...........
City: 2/1/1
Cow: 4/2/0
Bronze: 2/4/0
Mined plain hills: 2 * 0/4/0
--------------------------
Total: 15 hammers
I believe that's among the best Ive ever seen for a size 4 city.
Is Horseback riding really worth 31 turn (plus some turns for archery) of our research?
Comparison (WC vs. HA)
.................................
Strenghth: 5 - 6
Speed: 2 - 2
Hammers: 25 - 50
Equal abilities: Immune to first strike. Doesnt receive defensive bonuses.
Different abilities: Can withdraw from combat (20% chance) - +50% attack vs. Catapults
I believe they can be considered as equal, HA is a little stronger but WC have a more useful bonus at this stage. We get two WC for the cost of one HA. So I vote for take another research path.
The techs we can research at present are:
........................................................
1. Fishing: We do have some sea resources around.
2. Writing: Library for more research and Open Boarders for scouting Mother Russia. Also leads to Maths, which leads to construction and currency.
3. Horseback Riding: HA and later Knights, Cossacks.
4. Hunting: For Spearmen and leads to Archery. Good for city defends and against Chariots/HA.
5. Mysticism: For Oracle-run and snatching Cods of Laws, Civil Service, Metal Casting or Alphabet.
6. Masonry: For quarry by Thebes and shot at pyramids.
7. Metal Casting: Forges and Colossus. Expensive tech.
8. Iron Working: For location of iron and Swordsmen for better city attack.
Among these I think 3. and 7. is the only which not gives us any benefits right now. MC is to expensive and HBR will not get useful pre-knights.
My vote goes to Writing followed by Masonry and Mathematics. A library and some cottage in Thebes give our research a real boost. Masonry gives Thebes a real good production tile (5 hammers) and a chance to build pyramids, which is historically right....
Whit mathematics wills the pyramid chop generate more shields and depending on the results from coming military campaign can Catapults be needed.Ahhh.... what to do, what to do....
The Keeper
Warlord
We are creative but so is Cathy. So we will have to put a culture building in Memphis before we get the cows.
We could go for the masonry and try to put the pyramids in Memphis (long shot IMO).
We could go for writing and get a library in Memphis.
We could go for Code of Laws and get Confucanism to be founded in Memphis.
We could go for metal casting and get the Colossus in Memphis.
We could go for the masonry and try to put the pyramids in Memphis (long shot IMO).
We could go for writing and get a library in Memphis.
We could go for Code of Laws and get Confucanism to be founded in Memphis.
We could go for metal casting and get the Colossus in Memphis.
Krockel
Warlord
The Keeper said:
The cow is closer to Memphis then to the Russian city, which gives our culture more power at that tile. How long can the Russian city been there?
A obelisk will get 1 more culture per turn. Not much, but could be a deciding factor.
If we not get the cow from Cathy we need fishing
GarretSidzaka
Modder
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2002
- Messages
- 4,700
i feel we need culture in memphis. if we lose that city, we may as well resign. either that, or we take it by force. either way, we got to act now. i left a warrior in memphis and its building one, and im pretty sure that will help with culture flips.
i think we may be one-upped on culture tho, so attacking the city may be our only option this late.
i think we may be one-upped on culture tho, so attacking the city may be our only option this late.
The Keeper
Warlord
It has already expanded, and the creative trait gives +2 
I think on epic, it takes 15 to expand the first time? This means that it has been there for at least 10 turns (based on the first time it was seen)
That is at least 3 turns (probably more) of cultural push that we are working against. Im at work right now, but perhaps we can get a screen shot of what percentage the cows are russian. Or just the numbers from one turn to the next. We can then figure out about how long it will take to flip - if ever (without help).
I think on epic, it takes 15
to expand the first time? This means that it has been there for at least 10 turns (based on the first time it was seen)That is at least 3 turns (probably more) of cultural push that we are working against. Im at work right now, but perhaps we can get a screen shot of what percentage the cows are russian. Or just the numbers from one turn to the next. We can then figure out about how long it will take to flip - if ever (without help).
Krockel
Warlord
I searched the forums and got lucky:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...ce +from+city
A lot of talk about culture. Distance from city seam to have influence of the culture a city put on a tile. But I didn´t find any numbers for how this works exactly, the best info I found is quoted below.
So a city put (it’s culture displayed at the city screen + 1) on tiles furthers out in the area it’s influence. On the tile-ring further in are 20 more culture put per ring.
Assuming both Memphis and the Russian city produce 2 cultures per turn are 3 cultures per turn put into cow-tile by both cities. When our border pop will our influence of that tile go up to 3+20=23, which mean we will control the tile after our first boarder expansion. Assuming none of the cities will produce more culture then the other per turn so will the cow flip between Russia and us whenever either of the cities boarder expands. If Russia should take over the cow from us permanently are they needed to produce approxiametly 20 more culture per turn then we do in Memphis. 20 culture is a lot of culture, so I believe Memphis and the cow are safe, what we should do to avoid starvation and keep production should a workboat be constructed for the clams.
His calculations are based on normal speed and we are playing on epic, which can affect the figures.
Edit: Some spelling and last line
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...ce +from+city
A lot of talk about culture. Distance from city seam to have influence of the culture a city put on a tile. But I didn´t find any numbers for how this works exactly, the best info I found is quoted below.
sneep said:
So a city put (it’s culture displayed at the city screen + 1) on tiles furthers out in the area it’s influence. On the tile-ring further in are 20 more culture put per ring.
Assuming both Memphis and the Russian city produce 2 cultures per turn are 3 cultures per turn put into cow-tile by both cities. When our border pop will our influence of that tile go up to 3+20=23, which mean we will control the tile after our first boarder expansion. Assuming none of the cities will produce more culture then the other per turn so will the cow flip between Russia and us whenever either of the cities boarder expands. If Russia should take over the cow from us permanently are they needed to produce approxiametly 20 more culture per turn then we do in Memphis. 20 culture is a lot of culture, so I believe Memphis and the cow are safe, what we should do to avoid starvation and keep production should a workboat be constructed for the clams.
His calculations are based on normal speed and we are playing on epic, which can affect the figures.
Edit: Some spelling and last line
GarretSidzaka
Modder
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2002
- Messages
- 4,700
i say we take the city by force. theres not way we can get that kind of per culture this early. what do you guys think?
madviking
north american scum
I'll play sometime when I feel like it. 
(possibly today or tomorrow...)
(possibly today or tomorrow...)
GarretSidzaka
Modder
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2002
- Messages
- 4,700
hey great.
could ya make sure that thebes is producing something good. i forgot what was on the queue when i got rid of granary for the rushed settler
could ya make sure that thebes is producing something good. i forgot what was on the queue when i got rid of granary for the rushed settler
Krockel
Warlord
I think Memphis should be put on a rax right now and that the worker should go there ASAP to connect bronze.
GL with your turns madviking! =D
GL with your turns madviking! =D
Good work getting the settler in original position, it'll be a strong site if we can clear out Cathy. I think we'll get the cows from Cathy with our next border pop, but we'll see (and it's already pastured, thanks Cathy). Squares next to cities tend to belong to that city unless there is a huge difference in culture. A couple of warriors will see us through culture flips in the short term. Also note that the new russian city is also built on a hill. Swords and cat's, here we come.
So, my money's on IW or writing for our next tech, ditch HA. But I won't be upset if we get fishing. Then we can send a wokboat scout around that isthmus and perhaps some of Cathy's territory. We'll probably need a new worker once the next settler's up and running. There'll be plenty of roads to make. We should get a city up near the horsies north of Thebes and one on the coast near the cows between Memphis and Thebes. Also one in whipping central over the floodplains to our east (could be great for settler production, leaving Thebes to get libraries and other stuff with the whip.)
So, my money's on IW or writing for our next tech, ditch HA. But I won't be upset if we get fishing. Then we can send a wokboat scout around that isthmus and perhaps some of Cathy's territory. We'll probably need a new worker once the next settler's up and running. There'll be plenty of roads to make. We should get a city up near the horsies north of Thebes and one on the coast near the cows between Memphis and Thebes. Also one in whipping central over the floodplains to our east (could be great for settler production, leaving Thebes to get libraries and other stuff with the whip.)
GarretSidzaka
Modder
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2002
- Messages
- 4,700
i agree completely
I've been playing about in worldbuilder for the last hour or so. To me it looks like if we want a floodplain whipping town it'll have to be on the river or unhealthiness will eat up so much food it's not worthwhile. I think the next city should be looking at getting the two cows and horse in it's city squares, you can also manage to get the fish too if he goes on the coast, for extra whipping goodness. The floodplains city can wait until we get another couple of health resources hooked up(fish, clams), then it'll be killer.
Memphis with copper hooked up and cows is going to be great, although it suffers from unhealthiness pretty quickly if the cows don't get roaded/connected to Thebes. It also looks like a couple of warriors can do all of our fogbusting, and we can probably even get rid of that once we settle another one or two cities. That means no worries about barbs pillaging. Have a play about.
Memphis with copper hooked up and cows is going to be great, although it suffers from unhealthiness pretty quickly if the cows don't get roaded/connected to Thebes. It also looks like a couple of warriors can do all of our fogbusting, and we can probably even get rid of that once we settle another one or two cities. That means no worries about barbs pillaging. Have a play about.
The Keeper
Warlord
yawn . . .
(To the lack of playing and posting, not to the WB save)
(To the lack of playing and posting, not to the WB save)
Krockel
Warlord
Krockel
Warlord
Ok, here comes some dot-map info.
Going from north to south:
- Red: Fishing village with absolutely no food. Only useful for the getting happiness from silver.
- Teal: Fish, Horse, 2 Cow. Should be settled next IMO. Covers production and could possibly be gp-farm.
- Green: Cottageland with hills for production. Could be moved W for health by river or NW for +1h from city square.
- Brown: Fish. Commerce or GP-farm. Could suffer from health problems from FP's.
- Pink: Cow. Commerce I think.
- Lilac: Clam. Fishing village with some cottage.
- Blue: Settling on sugar will give +1food from city square. Good production.
So.... now we have something to talk about...... shoot!
Going from north to south:
- Red: Fishing village with absolutely no food. Only useful for the getting happiness from silver.
- Teal: Fish, Horse, 2 Cow. Should be settled next IMO. Covers production and could possibly be gp-farm.
- Green: Cottageland with hills for production. Could be moved W for health by river or NW for +1h from city square.
- Brown: Fish. Commerce or GP-farm. Could suffer from health problems from FP's.
- Pink: Cow. Commerce I think.
- Lilac: Clam. Fishing village with some cottage.
- Blue: Settling on sugar will give +1food from city square. Good production.
So.... now we have something to talk about...... shoot!
The Keeper
Warlord
I like the position of the light-blue (pardon me, teal )city.
Fish, horses, cows x2.
Also the two forests that overlap with thebes with give +1
for both cities. This cannot be counted out. Looks like a GP city to me.
)city.Fish, horses, cows x2.
Also the two forests that overlap with thebes with give +1
for both cities. This cannot be counted out. Looks like a GP city to me.
Lobsterboy
Immature crustacean
Heh. Indeed, it has been frustratingly quiet in this thread during the last 24 hours.
@Krockel: Dot-map looks good to me.
Research-wise, I think Writing followed by Fishing. Libraries will be nice in both Memphis (for the culture) and Thebes (for the research boost). Fish will help Memphis to grow, and also provide some health mitigation in Thebes.
By this time, we should have 1-2 more cities, so we could try for Masonry and the Pyramids, but I think we're better off heading toward Math and Construction for Catapults. War with Cathy will come sooner or later, and I hate to dedicate production of one city for a wonder when we could be building War Chariots. (Math would allow us to build the Hanging Gardens too, which would improve the health of our flood plain-rich Empire. We might have a better shot at this wonder than the Pyramids.)
We need Mysticism + Meditation/Polytheism + Priesthood before we can take a stab at the Oracle. Both Med and Poly have been discovered already by other Civs, so the chance of us building the Oracle are remote, particularly as we lack Marble.
@Krockel: Dot-map looks good to me.
Research-wise, I think Writing followed by Fishing. Libraries will be nice in both Memphis (for the culture) and Thebes (for the research boost). Fish will help Memphis to grow, and also provide some health mitigation in Thebes.
By this time, we should have 1-2 more cities, so we could try for Masonry and the Pyramids, but I think we're better off heading toward Math and Construction for Catapults. War with Cathy will come sooner or later, and I hate to dedicate production of one city for a wonder when we could be building War Chariots. (Math would allow us to build the Hanging Gardens too, which would improve the health of our flood plain-rich Empire. We might have a better shot at this wonder than the Pyramids.)
We need Mysticism + Meditation/Polytheism + Priesthood before we can take a stab at the Oracle. Both Med and Poly have been discovered already by other Civs, so the chance of us building the Oracle are remote, particularly as we lack Marble.
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