SGOTM 01 - Short Straw

[mushroomshirt]

OK - I've taken a decent look at the save and here are my thoughts:

• Other than the barracks in Tiw, I don't see too many opportunities to pop rush. I'm thinking get the barracks there and then switch to mercantilism / caste system. Lmtoops can decide on a switch back to slavery once pops have recovered in captured territories. I'm thinking of setting them up as food-centric assuming we will switch back at some point - since some of those places will not finish their courthouses until we finish the game! (I hope)
• I think Rostov is better off building a military unit than the market. Esp. if I switch to mercantilism, I think our money troubles are over.
• There is a settler hanging out in Novgorod from the old days. Are we still interested in using him as insurance in case Gandhi throws a settler on the open spots on our continent? I was thinking of loading him up and heading for those unsettled islands west of Gandhi. I know Grogs thinks the copper island is taken, but there might be room for more than one city there, plus there is another island out there. I was thinking the same for the settler Giza is building.
• Now for the good stuff! I'm assuming everyone is on board with attacking Sal first. It seems to be the consensus now that we know more about the lay of the land. If you have other ideas, let me know! The rest of the bullet points all assume attacking Sal next.
• The galleons on their way to the barb city- I was thinking of bypassing and heading straight for Najran and that iron in the south we can always pick that city up later and it seems pretty far from Sal's cities and unconnected by roads. Anyway in 5 turns I would drop a small force off at the southern iron (declare war). The rest of the troops would continue on to Najran on turn 6.
• In the meantime, troops in Cuzco would load up and depart for Kufa next turn. They would arrive at Sal's northern iron on that same turn as the troops arrive at the southern iron. Since Sal has no gunpowder, this will pretty much mean he'll have only longbows to defend & horse archers / war elephants to attack for the duration of the war. Maybe not that big of a deal but we can do it, so why not?
• The knight in Cuzco with two promotions coming, I'm thinking of making a medic. I'll probably move wounded troops over the water & a medic will help when we get to Sal's side.
• In the north, after Kufa, Medina is next. After that, not sure. In the south, looks like there is a city between Najran and Baghdad. That's next.
• Basra I think I'll leave as Sal's last city. We should be able to take it whenever we want, but I'm more interested in massing troops for the assault on Roosevelt than in totally destroying Sal.
• Longbowmen - I'm a "good offense is a good defense" kind of guy, so I'm looking for suggestions on what to do with the one we have and whether or not to build more. Myself, I would just use them to backfill as city defenders so our more experienced offensive troops could go to the front. Is that what you had in mind, Grogs? I'm not really sure where we will get attacked from. My only thought is that we will get some attacks in Sal's territory once we declare on Roosevelt, so maybe I should send him over to join the attack on Sal?
• I will send all our caravels to scout out Sal and Roosevelt. Not sure there is any other major use for them at this point.
• Should we try to convince Roosevelt to declare on Sal? I'm thinking no. The feint idea someone presented about drawing Roosevelt's troops out of New York sounds good, I'm just afraid I won't be able to execute. I know I can send overwhelming force into Sal's lands and make short work of him, though.

I definitely won't get to play until Tuesday or Wednesday night, so lots of time for suggestions & thoughts from everyone.

 

[Grogs]

I think Rostov is better off building a military unit than the market. Esp. if I switch to mercantilism, I think our money troubles are over.

It must have been in the queue and switched over after it finished a military build. I'm pretty sure I had Rostov building maces. Hopefully it hasn't been on that market for long.

The galleons on their way to the barb city- I was thinking of bypassing and heading straight for Najran and that iron in the south we can always pick that city up later and it seems pretty far from Sal's cities and unconnected by roads. Anyway in 5 turns I would drop a small force off at the southern iron (declare war). The rest of the troops would continue on to Najran on turn 6.
In the meantime, troops in Cuzco would load up and depart for Kufa next turn. They would arrive at Sal's northern iron on that same turn as the troops arrive at the southern iron. Since Sal has no gunpowder, this will pretty much mean he'll have only longbows to defend & horse archers / war elephants to attack for the duration of the war. Maybe not that big of a deal but we can do it, so why not?

Sounds good. You may want to take a good look at Cuzco and assess the timetable. I know we've got maybe 6-8 fully healed troops there, but most of them on the continent are pretty banged up. I charged after HC pretty hard, and as a result, a lot of troops were sent forward without healing. Same goes also on that southern stack. There aren't a lot of main attack units, just a grenadier, a sword, and 2 knights IIRC.

BTW, Saladin's UU is the camel archer - it replaces the knight and requires no resources, so if he gets guilds he'll still be able to build those. Hopefully, we'll get to him before he gets there though.

I'd also trade him something, if we can find it, for all his gold - we don't want him upgrading those old archers he might have lying around to LB's.

The knight in Cuzco with two promotions coming, I'm thinking of making a medic. I'll probably move wounded troops over the water & a medic will help when we get to Sal's side.

Again, take a look at what's on HC's continent. I think there are 4 medics there. Having a knight may be best, but I wanted to make you aware of the others.

Longbowmen - I'm a "good offense is a good defense" kind of guy, so I'm looking for suggestions on what to do with the one we have and whether or not to build more. Myself, I would just use them to backfill as city defenders so our more experienced offensive troops could go to the front. Is that what you had in mind, Grogs? I'm not really sure where we will get attacked from. My only thought is that we will get some attacks in Sal's territory once we declare on Roosevelt, so maybe I should send him over to join the attack on Sal?

I had in mind one city building nothing but LB's to garrison the cities we capture. I think they're one of the cheapest units we can produce. I would have sent him to HC's continent earlier, but I had the galleons down by Elephantine to defend the fish against HC's caravel.

Of course, my normal game is a 'slow' domination, usually wrapping up in the 17-1800's, so I've got time to build garrisons. We may be better off leaving some of our cities undefended, but I don't have much experience with that.

Should we try to convince Roosevelt to declare on Sal? I'm thinking no. The feint idea someone presented about drawing Roosevelt's troops out of New York sounds good, I'm just afraid I won't be able to execute. I know I can send overwhelming force into Sal's lands and make short work of him, though.

I tend to agree with you. Distracting Sal is great, but it means Roosevelt will stop building universities, banks, or whatever, and start pumping out the military. He'll also pillage the heck out of everything, so we'll inherit cities with very few improvements, and we don't really have the workers to fix them.

A couple of other notes: Be selective with your upgrades... I usually won't upgrade a 9/10 xp mace, I'll send him along, see if I can get an easy battle he can win to get CR3, and then upgrade him. That's the reason, also, I sent that sword on the galleons. If he can win and get CR2, great, let's upgrade him. Otherwise, he makes good cannon fodder.

 

[Lmtoops]

Originally Posted by mushroomshirt
The galleons on their way to the barb city- I was thinking of bypassing and heading straight for Najran and that iron in the south we can always pick that city up later and it seems pretty far from Sal's cities and unconnected by roads. Anyway in 5 turns I would drop a small force off at the southern iron (declare war). The rest of the troops would continue on to Najran on turn 6.
In the meantime, troops in Cuzco would load up and depart for Kufa next turn. They would arrive at Sal's northern iron on that same turn as the troops arrive at the southern iron. Since Sal has no gunpowder, this will pretty much mean he'll have only longbows to defend & horse archers / war elephants to attack for the duration of the war. Maybe not that big of a deal but we can do it, so why not?

Do units heal while waiting on ships? I think they do.

In which case, we can stage the troops off shore until they are healed...the ATTACK!!!

Originally Posted by mushroomshirt
Should we try to convince Roosevelt to declare on Sal? I'm thinking no. The feint idea someone presented about drawing Roosevelt's troops out of New York sounds good, I'm just afraid I won't be able to execute. I know I can send overwhelming force into Sal's lands and make short work of him, though.

In the late stages of the war, we may want to bring in Roosevelt. In the early stages, I see the point in bringing him into the war. In any case, we will not rely on his help....we can take Sal on our own.

There is a settler hanging out in Novgorod from the old days. Are we still interested in using him as insurance in case Gandhi throws a settler on the open spots on our continent? I was thinking of loading him up and heading for those unsettled islands west of Gandhi. I know Grogs thinks the copper island is taken, but there might be room for more than one city there, plus there is another island out there. I was thinking the same for the settler Giza is building.

That sound good. We can build more settlers if needed.

Longbowmen - I'm a "good offense is a good defense" kind of guy, so I'm looking for suggestions on what to do with the one we have and whether or not to build more. Myself, I would just use them to backfill as city defenders so our more experienced offensive troops could go to the front.

I would rather leave a city undefended than use a good offensive unit to garrison. Leave the city undefended and the first build can be a LB.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

I think Mushroomshirt's Saladin plan sounds great. Cutoff the iron and we can use the pikes against any camel archers he might get. We should probably have upgrades in mind for the pikes (not too specialized for anti-horse). After Saladin, they can be upgraded to grenadiers since will will need a lot of grenadiers against FDR.

FDR (I don't know why I always thought it was Theodore) will probably be the opposite. He has 3 iron and 1 horse, so we should be able to cut off any mounted builds with an amphibious assault at New York. We can't do anything about muskets and grenadiers by cutting mines anyway but that's how it will have to be. New York is also a critical choke point for FDR's empire. The mountains and one Frigate near Los Angeles would force all reinforcements from the east to go through our defences in New York. A second pincer (the Saladin army) could start from the west and draw the counterattack force from Washington away from New York.

Other than Washington, America has few mines, they are geared for commerce not production. If we can survive the initial American counterattack, I think we may be able to finish quickly by moving attack groups by sea.

 

[mushroomshirt]

Sounds good. You may want to take a good look at Cuzco and assess the timetable. I know we've got maybe 6-8 fully healed troops there, but most of them on the continent are pretty banged up. I charged after HC pretty hard, and as a result, a lot of troops were sent forward without healing. Same goes also on that southern stack. There aren't a lot of main attack units, just a grenadier, a sword, and 2 knights IIRC.

I have a feeling these troops may be enough for the initial attack and there will be more on the way soon anyway. I promise not to do anything stupid but I would rather attack a little earlier rather than later and 5 turns into my set is about the earliest we can get to Sal at this point.

BTW, Saladin's UU is the camel archer - it replaces the knight and requires no resources, so if he gets guilds he'll still be able to build those. Hopefully, we'll get to him before he gets there though.

Doh! Should have known that since it's the GOTM this month.

I'd also trade him something, if we can find it, for all his gold - we don't want him upgrading those old archers he might have lying around to LB's.

I'll do this.

I had in mind one city building nothing but LB's to garrison the cities we capture. I think they're one of the cheapest units we can produce. I would have sent him to HC's continent earlier, but I had the galleons down by Elephantine to defend the fish against HC's caravel.

Of course, my normal game is a 'slow' domination, usually wrapping up in the 17-1800's, so I've got time to build garrisons. We may be better off leaving some of our cities undefended, but I don't have much experience with that.

I would rather leave a city undefended than use a good offensive unit to garrison. Leave the city undefended and the first build can be a LB.

I will try to build a few to LBs replace the good military units on HC's continent. If necessary I'll leave some cities empty for the short term. I don't think we're in danger of a naval invasion from Sal and even if we were we could take HC's cities back quite easily after taking out Sal's core cities. I'll build a few more Frigates to keep FDR from attacking this way.

FDR (I don't know why I always thought it was Theodore) will probably be the opposite. He has 3 iron and 1 horse, so we should be able to cut off any mounted builds with an amphibious assault at New York. We can't do anything about muskets and grenadiers by cutting mines anyway but that's how it will have to be. New York is also a critical choke point for FDR's empire. The mountains and one Frigate near Los Angeles would force all reinforcements from the east to go through our defences in New York. A second pincer (the Saladin army) could start from the west and draw the counterattack force from Washington away from New York.

Probably not an issue during my turns, but I will try to make short work of Saladin and finish the upgrades to grenadiers.

 

[ungy]

Sounds like we are cruising nicely. I very much agree with not bringing FDR in our war --I like the strategy if we were weaker than Sal, or maybe parity. We're just likely to see a bunch of pillaging.

I wouldn't bother building garrison units--I think we can leave a few axes in HC's turf and use what we have for sals. I think only the border cities in Sal are likely to need garrisons --pike are good --I say full steam ahead with the gren.

 

[mushroomshirt]

Sounds like we are cruising nicely. I very much agree with not bringing FDR in our war --I like the strategy if we were weaker than Sal, or maybe parity. We're just likely to see a bunch of pillaging.

I wouldn't bother building garrison units--I think we can leave a few axes in HC's turf and use what we have for sals. I think only the border cities in Sal are likely to need garrisons --pike are good --I say full steam ahead with the gren.

This is more in-line with my usual play style, but in the interest of compromise, I will probably build a few LBs and send them over to Sal's border cities. That's where we're most likely to be attacked.

I will not get to play tonight, but will definitely play tomorrow.

 

[mushroomshirt]

I played my set. Here's the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Short_Straw_SG001_AD1442_01.Civ4SavedGame

Good: 4 of Sal's cities are taken and Baghdad is next
Bad: Roosevelt has declared on Sal & I made a deal with Roosevelt stupidly thinking he was after us
Ugly: Lost some units stupidly trying to attack barb city with small forces

Here're the gory details:

Turn 287, 1382 AD (leftover from Grogs' turn):
Rostov production changed to Frigate (market removed from queue)
Barracks pop rushed in Tiw
Novgorod settler loaded on to galleon headed to HC peninsula, giza settler will head to open islands
Switch to caste system / mercantilism
Change to merchants in elephantine, Thebes. Artists in HC lands & places we need border expansion. Merchants / engineers in other cities.

Turn 288, 1388 AD:
Gandhi discovers liberalism, Archimedes born in Washington.
Memphis theater->frigate, Novgorod Galley->Grenadier, Tiw Barracks->longbowman, Cuzco Courthouse-> Barracks, Vilcas Courthouse
I noticed from the turn log "You have discovered a source of Silver near Novgorod!" - I missed this during play, so not sure if it is properly mined.
Galleons head for Kufa after loading up with nearly all troops in Cuzco
Galleons near Novgorod load up and head toward Medina
Workers building road to HC peninsula to eventually ferry troops over to Sal / FDR

Turn 289, 1394
Roosevelt offers spices for corn - no way
Heliopolis pike->grenadier
Cory comes out of resistance builds Barracks
Stupid me I built barracks for a turn in Cuzco, should have been building FP. Switch now.

Turn 290 1400
Memphis frigate->frigate
Novgorod gren->galleon
Caravel scouts Najran - has unpromoted longbow and spearman looks like easy pickings
Caravel scouts Kufa - a bit harder 3 longbowmen and a spear (all promoted) , should still be pretty easy.
Caravel finds bengal founded near the copper. Can still maybe found a city on the other side of the mountains and steal some territory running an artist.

Turn 291
Pi-ramses maceman->grenadier
St. Pete's grenadier->grenadier
WAR!
Kufa's iron guarded by a maceman - will attack city from forest spot.
Crap, I just realized I forgot to take Grog's advice and trade for all of Sal's money. Sorry guys.

Turn 292 1412
Aretas III born in persepolis
Moscow Grenadier->Grenadier
Kufa is taken! lost one CR2 cat attacking the city, a knight *and* a grenadier (!) attacking the maceman guarding the iron.
Knight stays on southern iron other troops move on Najran.
I know I said I would leave Basra alone, but there is only one longbowman there and defense is at 0%. I can't resist.

Turn 293 1418
Thebes Bank->Grenadier
Novgorod Galleon->Galleon
Memphis Frigate->Frigate
Lose a Grenadier taking Basra
Najran falls without losing a unit
Caravel scouts Seattle - has 2 knights, longbowman and pikeman (lots of promotions)

Turn 294 1424
Heliopolis Grenadier->Grenadier
Wang Anshi (Great Merchant!) Born in Elephantine
Caravel scouts Atlanta - 2longbowmen and maceman (unpromoted)
Switch build of Frigate in Memphis to caravel to carry GP to Delhi

Turn 295 1430
Roosevelt is sending a big threatening force over to Najran - that's not a good sign. I trade corn for spices so hopefully he will back off for now.
Giza builds settler->Grenadier
Caravel scouts LA - Mace longbowman knight pikeman (some w/ combat 1)
Bombard Medina down to +21%
I made another mistake here getting aggressive with the barb city. I unloaded the troops there and tried to attack with a knight and grenadier. They were both killed by the defending longbowmen! I probably should have stopped after the grenadier was killed

Turn 296 1436
Roosevelt declares on Saladin! Guess that's what that big force was for. stupid me hope I didn't crimp lmtoops' style too much with that trade agreement.
Medina at 0%, lost one catapult and one knight. No grenadiers at the front line yet so couldn't completely take it. Will next turn.
Build Heiracanpolis on HC's peninsula
Caravel arrives at NY - It is STACKED! tons of units there - it will be a tough nut to crack.
Boston has 3 LBs and a pikeman.
GM boards Caravel for Delhi (I turned off goto orders, though)
Load the cats from the barb city back on the galleon to head to Baghdad.

Turn 297 (last turn)
Medina bites the dust (no lost units)
Troops converging on Baghdad
San Francisco has Longbowman, pikeman, catapult
Phily has maceman, longbowman, pikeman, catapult
Tried to cancel all goto orders except there is one galleon heading to Baghdad with a load of troops.

 

[Lmtoops]

Roosevelt declares on Saladin! Guess that's what that big force was for. stupid me hope I didn't crimp lmtoops' style too much with that trade agreement.

Since I'm the one who was pushing to draw Roosevelt into the war, I'm very happy.

 

[Grogs]

Good work mushroomshirt.

Since I'm the one who was pushing to draw Roosevelt into the war, I'm very happy.

LOL, well you may be the one to get to deal with Roosevelt. Hopefully he'll kill off some of Saladin's forces and vice-versa.

If the opportunity to kill off a large number of Roosevelt's troops in the open presents itself, we may want to consider switching targets. Those huge cultural borders Mecca has may be useful for keeping Ghandi from settling on this continent, and we may need a settler or 2 to fully claim his land.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Good job mushroomshirt.

Its great to see Roosevelt warring with Saladin. Hopefully, can we convince him to attack Damascus and lose a big stack attacking in the hills.

I did a quick hammer check and FDR is very hammer poor.

Boston: 8 hammers per turn
Chicago: 15
Washington: 17
Seattle: 5
L A: 5
NY: 11
Atlanta: 13
Philly: 5
SF: 8

Without whipping he won't be able to produce many modern units once our attack starts even with forges. I assume the HE is in either NY or Chicago so I would propose those as early targets although NY has a huge stack. I know this is getting way ahead of ourselves but I'm thinking toward my turn sets.

Also, I would suggest selling Music to FDR. He won't have time to get Nationalism/Military Tradition for cavalry but we don't want him upgrading a lot of his medieval units.
Let him throw maces at Saldin's long bows, we win either way.

 

[Lmtoops]

Good job mushroomshirt.

Its great to see Roosevelt warring with Saladin. Hopefully, can we convince him to attack Damascus and lose a big stack attacking in the hills.

I did a quick hammer check and FDR is very hammer poor.

Boston: 8 hammers per turn
Chicago: 15
Washington: 17
Seattle: 5
L A: 5
NY: 11
Atlanta: 13
Philly: 5
SF: 8

Without whipping he won't be able to produce many modern units once our attack starts even with forges. I assume the HE is in either NY or Chicago so I would propose those as early targets although NY has a huge stack. I know this is getting way ahead of ourselves but I'm thinking toward my turn sets.

Also, I would suggest selling Music to FDR. He won't have time to get Nationalism/Military Tradition for cavalry but we don't want him upgrading a lot of his medieval units.
Let him throw maces at Saldin's long bows, we win either way.

This is really good information. I'll have to remember to do this in my single player games.

We will war, but with whom. We could continue with Sal, as planned. We could war with both, or we could make peace with Sal and switch to FDR.

I have not seen the save, but I will look at it closely tonight.

 

[Lmtoops]

FDR War Considerations:
- the health of our troops
- is FDR vulnerable, are his troops in the field.
- Is FDR loosing his good troops by attacking hilled cities. (probably just pillaging, but you never know).

Sal Peace Considerations
- Does he have anything worth trading
- Will Sal accept peace

I like the idea of making peace with Sal and attacking FDR. In this scenerio, FDR has to worry about Sal, and us. Sal will have little opportunity to regroup due to the FDR war.

Since I haven't seen the save, I'm getting way ahead of myself. I will temper my decisions until I review the save and get more input.

 

[Grogs]

Without whipping he won't be able to produce many modern units once our attack starts even with forges. I assume the HE is in either NY or Chicago so I would propose those as early targets although NY has a huge stack. I know this is getting way ahead of ourselves but I'm thinking toward my turn sets.

I took a good look at all of Roosevelt's cities, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a Heroic Epic. If this is the first war he's fought, that makes sense. To be honest, I only see about 5-6 barracks. He'll probably be able to build it soon now that he's at war with Sal, but all the better - hammers spent on the HE are hammers he's not spending on troops.

As for Roosevelt, I'd really like some more Intel on the defenders he has in his cities ASAP. New York looks downright *scary* but I think it must be the exception.

 

[mushroomshirt]

FDR War Considerations:
- the health of our troops
- is FDR vulnerable, are his troops in the field.
- Is FDR loosing his good troops by attacking hilled cities. (probably just pillaging, but you never know).

Sal Peace Considerations
- Does he have anything worth trading
- Will Sal accept peace

I like the idea of making peace with Sal and attacking FDR. In this scenario, FDR has to worry about Sal, and us. Sal will have little opportunity to regroup due to the FDR war.

Since I haven't seen the save, I'm getting way ahead of myself. I will temper my decisions until I review the save and get more input.

Don't forget my stupid deal (corn for spices) with FDR around my turn #8. This could crimp your plans a bit. Sorry about that. I thought he was going to attack us.

As for Roosevelt, I'd really like some more Intel on the defenders he has in his cities ASAP. New York looks downright *scary* but I think it must be the exception.

In my post there is intel on pretty much all FDR's coastal cities. New York is definitely an exception. Of course, not sure about the inland cities.

 

[Lmtoops]

Don't forget my stupid deal (corn for spices) with FDR around my turn #8. This could crimp your plans a bit. Sorry about that. I thought he was going to attack us.

I don't understand; is there some big negative drawback to declaring war when we have a current deal? I know I can declare war, even with the trade...so what is the downside? FDR will hate me anyway.

 

[Lmtoops]

Looking at the save, I will stick with taking Baghdad. Trying to divert our forces would waste too much time, and I'm not sure if there is any pay-off. As Grog stated, if FDR has a big stack near Damascus...I am tempted to pounce.

After I take Baghdad, I will march towards Damascas. Hopefully, I will have current scout information on Damascus so I can determine the size of my force. I hope to sail a small force (6 units?) from Baghdad to San Francisco (stay on the ship). This force will cut off the iron and take San Francisco.

Units from the homeland will be staging outside of Atlanta. This will be a big force. Hopefully it will draw some NY units.

The rest of the American invasion force will come from a captured Damascus (assuming we capture Damascus). This force will cut off the last iron, and take Boston or Chicago.

Does that sound like a good military plan?

 

[Lmtoops]

As far as production, in the homeland build grenadiers, a few galleons, and a few cats. The Inca land should be somewhat productive, so they will build military also.

We will have plenty of populations for a domination victory, so the concern for growth is minimal. With our Creative trait, our cultural borders will expand by themselves.

I will look for good trades, as much as possible. We have lots of trade with FDR (2 happiness resources, and 2 or 3 health). But our cities will be OK with out them....for now.

Sal's old territories only need to grow their cultural borders. I want to build CH there just to cut down waste.

Are there any other domestic issues that need to be dealt with?

I want to play tomorrow night. Otherwise, it won't be until Monday night. So I need your input, quickly.

 

[mushroomshirt]

I don't understand; is there some big negative drawback to declaring war when we have a current deal? I know I can declare war, even with the trade...so what is the downside? FDR will hate me anyway.

Egg on my face I guess. For some reason I was thinking that a trade was like a cease fire or peace - don't know why I thought this but I'm pretty sure it has affected my single player games, too! I'm glad it won't mess you up too much.

EDIT: PS I like your military plan. Sal is good for a staging area, but the real threat is FDR. Maybe you are already thinking this, but I would suggest pillaging FDR's resources at the beginning rather than just taking the associated cities. Because he is so strong, he might get some of these back with big stacks. I left Sal's resources alone because I wasn't seriously worried he would retake the cities.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

I don't think pillaging FDR's resources is such a big issue. He has gunpowder so he will be building muskets mostly. Maces and knights are the only units he will be building that use iron. It would be nice to pillage the mines to reduce production but I don't think we can prevent him from producing these units. There is one horse but it is near his big stack at New York and three iron (SF, Atlanta, and near Damascus IIRC) plus one copper for maces. Since we have switched mostly to grenadiers from maces we should encourage FDR to build maces rather that CG muskets and long bows. Knights are bad city defenders as long as a pike or two discourage attacks on our stack.

Hopefully, we can clear Bagdhad and get a healed stack to Damascus when FDR attacks. If we get lucky and catch a stack of damaged units in and around Damascus with no cultural defence we may be able to deal a heavy suprise blow to FDR.