SGOTM 01 - Team One

[amh52]

Nice job against HC Strobe and Conroe.

I agree with Forbidden Palace in Cuzco and research plan. Also did we remember and do we still want to settle the small island north of Gandhi?

Do we have enough troops to attack Roosevelt now? I haven't looked at the save and I am not entirely sure of our strength and of his advance. I would say let's go after him if we have enough forces to finish him off quickly or at least to take a few of his cities core. We just don't want to get bogged down in a war that lasts forever.

 

[amh52]

Nice tale you wrote in the spoiler Blastoid. You're going to be hard to match. Thanks for doing it.

 

[blastoidstalker]

thanks. I will try to get the rest up to caravals tonight of tommorow.

 

[Harok]

I have the save and will play soon. We seem to be building a lot of research buildings (3 universities and 1 library) when I thought we were thinking of turning research down or off altogether soon. I was thinking of changing some of those builds to theaters for ww or units but wanted to get more opinions about what our plan with research is. If we are going to shut it off soon there isn't any point in spending 20-40 turns building a university IMO. But if we are going to keep going then I will leave them alone.

Our current army is 13 maces, 12 cats, 7 knights, 11 longbows plus some war chariots/explorers.

I knew Roosevelt was going to spike in research when he completed both the Great Lighthouse and Colossus. If we do attack him first I suggest we nail New York first as it contains both of those wonders. I will try to get a peak at what kind of defense he has in the city with our explorer who is currently in Saladin's land.

And lastly about the 3 islands that have a decent amount of land...do we want to try to settle some/all of them? If so we better do soon right now or else we will lose them to other civs.

EDIT > Blast I wanted to second the nice writeup.

 

[Mutineer]

I would build all sci buildings posible in our capital, as our capital still does the most of research.
I do not afrais scpike of Roosevelt, but we can take him first.
The only problem I see that saladin more lickly to create an army in time we are doing that and roosevelt futher away from as = increase upkeep problems and trop supply problem.
But remember, we can start to drop trops on border, as we have open borders with bouth of them? Just do not forget to shift then from one you finally decide to attack befor declaring.

 

[Mutineer]

I read write up's.
Thanks you blastoidstalker, that was very good.

After some additional thinking I would suggest to attack Saladin.
Main reason is that he dislike as and he is a religious zelot. He may be building army and even backstabbing as in time when we try to go after Roosevelt.

Because of Roosevelt lover score we might be able to form PA with him, if needed, but I do not believe it will be so. We should finish this game way befor tech for PA become avalible.

I think we should settle near by islands to garanty we have enogth land for domination alone.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I took a look at the save game and want to post a couple more screenies to give us more info.
It is pretty obvious that Harok should be able to mop up HC and will be transporting troops towards the other continent.

here is resources

The americans have 3 iron, no copper, 1 horse. Saladin has 1 copper 1 iron 1 horse. Rooservelt's horse is near new york and should be pillaged when we take that city. I would not go after Rooservelts iron immediately as he has to much of it and it is not as important as it was in the early game.

here is power graph


Salidin is not building an army

here is the tech trade screen

the Americans can produce knights and macemen but still need to get through education to get to gunpowder. Saldin does not have knights. Gahndi does not have astronomy but has all the requirment techs for it.

I would make getting a settler to each of the three islands a priority, especialy the one north of Gahndi. He has 20% of the worlds landmass, and will get some of Cyruses when we take him out. (due to culture). I am not decided on who to attack first. We do need to rember that we can only upgrade units in our own territory. If we have upgradinged some of our macement to grenadiers I would go after the Americans if not I would take out Saladin.

I also noticed that Salidin is annoyed with Rooservelt but Rooservelt is cautious towards Salidin. The declare war on roservelt screen was red for salidin with the message we do not like you enought. We are pleased with him. I wounder that if we would make him friendly if he would attack him. but I am also leery of giving him techs he can use agains us. They do not have open boarders with each other so we can also move our troops through the others lands and use it as protection for wounded units.

 

[Mutineer]

BTW, I can not check save, but one of reason Roosevelt just up that mach is because he traded with as.
If we obtain banking and switch to Mercantenilism this will hurt him way more then it will hurt as. One can not trade with civ in Mercantenilism, even if you have open border.

It would be nice to check who is allredy in mercantenilism, as I suspect we lost most of our fereign trade routes. If it is true we should get bankling and switch to it ourself.
Free market for small empires, for big Mercantenelism is the best.

 

[Conroe]

Excellent writeup, blastoid! A very enjoyable read, indeed!

It would be nice to check who is allredy in mercantenilism, as I suspect we lost most of our fereign trade routes. If it is true we should get bankling and switch to it ourself.

IIRC, Gandhi is the only civ running Mercantilism. Everybody else, including us, are still in decentralization.

 

[Harok]

Turn 0 AD: Change a few build orders, micromanage tile usage to earn some extra gold, and move a couple of units around from cities with extra happiness to those with red faces so more tiles are being used.

Turn 1 1346AD: zzzz

Turn 2 1352AD: Capture Huamanga losing 1 cat and 1 mace. Load Great Engineer into Caravel and send him towards Inca's former land so he can create the Forbidden Palace.

Turn 3 1358AD: Gunpowder finishes, start Chemistry. Cancel deal with Gandhi on spices seeing he had 1 extra GPT but then I realized it was our only Spice but we had 2 Gold so I trade him a gold instead. Renegotiate deal with Roosevelt to get 1 extra GPT.

Turn 4 1364AD: Bombard Ollantsomething down to 0% and attack the 2 Longbows with 2 Knights and a Maceman on the Quecha winning all 3.


Turn 5 1370AD: Revolt to Slavery so I can whip courthouse in Cuzco. The GE will arrive next turn so it can do the FP next turn. I also whip a couple of other courthouses as we are getting slaughtered in the gold department. -73 GPT even after moving slider down to 60%.

Turn 6 1376AD: Use GE to hurry FP in Cuzco. We dropped from -73 to -49 with the 3 whipped courthouses. 3 Galleons are loaded up from Inca war and start heading to Sal/Roosevelt 1 full of Knights, 1 Maces, and 1 Cats.

IBT: Gandhi finishes Versailles.

Turn 7 1382AD: FP finishes and drops us down 7 more GPT to -42. If the cities to the east were out of revolt it would have been a more dramatic drop. Drop off Settler and protection on the island N of Gandhi.

Turn 8 1388AD: Drop off GM in Saladdin's land and will check amount it can get there.

Turn 9 1394AD: GM will get 1950 in Medina and 1650 in Atlanta.

Turn 10 1400AD: Use GM in Medina netting 1950 gold. Load up another Settler/Longbow into a Galleon and start heading SE to island. The last of the Incan cities come out of revolt.

Situation Assessment- There are 4 galleons ready to drop off 3 Knights, 3 Maces, 4 cats, and 2 Longbows on the Saladdin Roosevelt border. There are many more units in Ollantsomething which should be picked up as soon as those Galleons are emptied. I don't have a real preference for which we go after next. Roosevelt is a lot stronger (3 of his cities are stacked, NY, Wash, Thracian, but the others only have a couple defenders each) so it may make sense to go after him now.

We are 4 turns from Chemistry but can shave a couple turns off if we want by upping the science slider. We have lots of money now from GM to upgrade maces to grenadiers.

I didn't settle the island north of Gandhi yet as I wasn't sure if we wanted to grab the whale (which we have none of currently) and lose a little land or found in the middle to get all the land.

Save File -
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD1400_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Mutineer]

Thanks Conroe, that where Roosevelt jump in GNP come from.
When he got astronomy his Greate Ligthouse give his cities extrimelly lucrative trade routes and most of them with our cities.
If we switch to Mercantenilism we will cut of his trade. At the same time it would not effect as negativelly mach, because we currently have only Roosevelt+Saladin+Cyrys for trade routes for our cities and our cities have only 2 trade routes, not 4 like Roosevelts one's.

The moment we attack any of them we would not have mony routes left and we have a lot of cities.
Mercantenilism is THe CIvic for as.

 

[Mutineer]

Good work Harok. Sorry, I can not check save and recoment where to settle.

 

[Harok]

Island North of Gandhi-

To work the whale we have to be in NE corner and will lose a few tiles in the SW. Probably worth it to pick up +1 happiness though.

 

[Mutineer]

Yes, I would settle on Tundra, as it will be best city tie wize and we do need to think about efficiency. Whale is actially 2 happiness with Market.

 

[Conroe]

When he got astronomy his Greate Ligthouse give his cities extrimelly lucrative trade routes and most of them with our cities.

Good analysis, Mutineer!

The difference between Saladin and FDR's military is Knights and Pikemen. (as of my turns, anyway). Our current forces, pre-Grenadier, will have an easier time with Saladin. So, we should probably attack him first while implementing Mutineer's plan to reduce FDR's GNP.

I didn't settle the island north of Gandhi yet as I wasn't sure if we wanted to grab the whale (which we have none of currently) and lose a little land or found in the middle to get all the land.

How many Settler's did you build? Do we have enough for all 3 of the large islands?

To work the whale we have to be in NE corner and will lose a few tiles in the SW. Probably worth it to pick up +1 happiness though.

I would vote to settle one of the desert tiles that picks up the 2 fish. The big island south of us has whale, deer, and fur. Plus it is large enough for 2 cities.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I will play tommorow but wanted to ask out there for peoples opinions on who we should attack first. Saladin or Rooservelt. A couple of you have put your opinions out there but i would like to here from others as well. I will take these comments into account look carefully at the save make a decision and plan my turn accordingly. I think I am siding for taking out Saladin first? but if I was playing the game just myself i would still want to look at the situation carefully before deciding.

I was right about Gahndi building Versailles

 

[Harok]

How many Settler's did you build? Do we have enough for all 3 of the large islands?

I believe I only built 2 of them but our capital can probably produce 1 in 3-5 turns. I also built a few more Galleons as we seemed short on them so there should be enough to move the settler as soon as he is built.

I would vote to settle one of the desert tiles that picks up the 2 fish. The big island south of us has whale, deer, and fur. Plus it is large enough for 2 cities.

I wouldn't put 2 cities on any of the islands. We aren't looking at them as being really productive cities for us just land eaters. We want as few cities as possible taking up as much land as possible.

On my turns I didn't bring workers along to the islands as they were all busy doing other stuff but by the end of my turnset they were pretty much finishing up everything that needed done and should be sent to some of the islands. I would use them to chop workboats/courthouses/lighthouse. It is doubtful any of those cities grow enough to need the health from the forests so I would chop them all down getting as much infrastructure as possible.

I would probably grab the whale near Gandhi's land and place the others in the middle of the islands.

As for who to attack first, in a single player game I would probably go for Roosevelt first and when he looked in hand I would start diverting new units to Cyrus and go after him at the same time. Once Roosevelt is gone I would turn those forces on Saladin. But I don't have a strong preference.

 

[amh52]

I don't have a strong preference for Saladin or Roosevelt and would be happy to go either way. Personnaly I am tempted to go after Roosevelt as soon as we upgrade all the Macemen to Grenadiers. It would be good if we could hit him before he gets to Gunpowder. I'd like to have a few more units and especially more Galleons but I think it should work. Hit New York first and then move on to Washington to grab all his wonders.

I would settle on the Tundra and get the whale for the island north of Gandhi.
For the others I would almost like to wait a few turns before settling as it will hurt our economy even more. We just have to make sure we settle before anybody else does.

 

[Strobe]

Great write up blast !.

Clever thinking on the Mercantilism Mutineer.

I'll take a look at the save in a couple of hours but I do think we need to move full steam ahead with war, we cannot afford a break if we are to stand a chance of winning. Waiting to upgrade is too slow.

I would attack whichever looks like the strongest military wise. If we are worried about upgrades, then get our troops over there, take a small city then defend until we out of anarchy(2-4 turns) then upgrade. A couple of pikeman would help.

I would also prefer Cannons over Cavalry, with so many coast towns we can get around fast enough using galleons and Cavalry are not that strong against fortified city pikemen, never mind rifleman.

Cannons and Grenadiers will be like knife through butter on backwards AI and do okay against rifleman.

 

[Mutineer]

I hope you folk realise that there should not be any war declaration may be untill end of blastoidstalker turns, or even then.

Our stack very small, units will need to to be rebased, we luck enoght Galeons and we do not have any counter again knights.
If we declare was so unprepare our stack will be swarmed and killed.

I would advice to draft some Muskets(from food ritch cities), make some galeons insted of knight and rebase all army befor declaring.
Again, this will be different war, as Saladin/bissmark are far away, reinforsments slow. That why I say attack saladin, so we have some base to work from befor attackig roosevelt.
and we have an island to settle.