SGOTM 01 - Team One

well Mutineer I guess you underestimate my abilites

I do not ave time for a full recap right now but I finished my turnset.
In short I did some tweaking to get chemistry in 2. got some macemen up in ollysomething upgraded to grenadiers got them the galleons that had deposited the first force into salidins land. I then I then declared war on Rooservelt. Bringing units from salidns land and off of the boats. I took boston and Atlanta in the first two turns of the war. With saladins land expanding as the cities are taken boston becomes a coak point and all the new grendairs were put into there except for one that took atlanta. the Mace from the first boat units then were upgraded to grendairs (remmber you can upgrade in any city of your even if it is in revolt. And we weathered two assults of Rooservelts unis on Boston. At the end of the turnset we have about 12 units 2 spaces north of washington which is still packed to lots of units. We also ahave about 10 units in Boston
I have some other stuff going on in the map weith the small island colonization so I would suggest the next player not play until i can write a real report.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD1460_01.Civ4SavedGame
 
Heh, it has nothing to do with your abilities.
I tend to be more conservative and personally would probably avoide upgrading if favor of drafting and some more research.
But that is probably personal preference.
 
Sorry Mutineer, I meant “our capabilities” not “my abilities”, meaning we were actually in better shape than you were thinking we were. I was putting stuff down as quick as I could to get done so it came down wrong.
I respect your insight greatly because you are a very different player than I am and you think of ideas that I do not always see, that will help me improve Which in my opionion is part of the reason to play these types of games. The other is to have fun raid and conqueor, which is the theme of this turnset.

Goals were to
-Get a large force onto the enemy continent ASAP and either start or set up a war with Roosevelt. The strategy forth the war that made sense to me was to take Roosevelt’s westernmost cities Boston and Atlanta. They both had access both from Saladin’s lands and the ocean. Boston would form a choke point in which any Rooservelt counter could be repelled. The key here is that Saladin and Roosevelt do not have open boarders. Meaning I could partially defend the new cities with Saladin’s cultural boarder.
- To give macemen city raider promotions and upgrade them to grenadiers. And produce as many grenadiers as possible and get some frigates in the oceans.

-Get a settler on each of the three islands and settle the island north of Gandhi to use the whales.


1400 inherited turn-
• Set research to 100%
• Gandhi has astronomy now- need to get the settlers out there pronto.
• I found the city Hiercopis on the island north of Gandhi and start courthouse there.
• I start a workboat in Pi Ramsesses to use for the whales.
• MM elephantine, putting scientists to work to get chemistry down to two turns. This is important to coordinate Galley transports later.
• Drop first wave of military at American-Saladin boarder and move galleons back towards Olysomething to pick up next wave of units.
• Switch a lot of the build cues in the Incan lands, putting priority to longbows to liberate our macemen from city garrison duty. Excepgtion to this is courthouses and the market in the holy city. Settler and longbowman sent to island south of us. Over the turnset I do not settle but leave the archer and settler fog busting, not wanting to increase costs. As Gandhi has astronomy now we may need to settle the gut so he can not get on the island.

1406
• Start settler for 3rd island in Novgorod. Whip a longbow in Olysomething. Since it that could only work 3 tiles.

1412
• Chemistry discovered start steel
• Macemen in Olysomething upgraded to grenadiers. Galleons leave ollysomething with all its knights and catapults.
• Time some wood-cutting to produce several grenadiers in our mainland in the next 2-3 turns
• Trade education and gunpowder with Gandhi for printing press and music. We need music for military tradition and printing press helps our economy a bit. Set research to 0%

1418 moving units in place

1424
• Trade monotheism to Roosevelt for 190 gold then declare war on him. We loose a bunch of health resources by doing this but we should get them back soon enough

• Trade spices and corn to Salidin for ivory, later I get a helath for health resource trade from him as well
• Move first wave in next to Boston from the south and land units next to Boston and Atlanta.

1430
• Bombard Boston down to 0% and take it out using knights. First knight was at 30% with a spear and won. The other two knights won easily. Macemen from first wave are moved in to the city and upgraded to Grenadiers. Atlanta is bombarded but not attacked directly this turn. Move wave 2 grenadiers landed outside of Atlanta.



1436
• Roosevelt counters with a knight attacking Boston and loosing to a grenadier. A sack appears just outside the city. I hit it with a sacrificial catapult and take a couple of knights out of it but lose one grenadier attacking a war elephant. I stop attacking the stack not wanting to loose units and it retreats back to America’s capital. Atlanta is taken with grenadiers.


• Set research to 100%

1442
• Reinforcement knights arrive from our mainland.
• A longbowman is dropped off near Atlanta, rest put in Boston.
• One of our caravels is destroyed by an attacking galley.

1448
• Reinforcement grenadiers from mainland arrive.
• Gandhi is free market now.
• Revolt to nationhood to cut down costs and caste system to put a large number of merchants in elephantine as we could use one ASAP.
• Macemen stack approaches Boston but is in woods so I wait a turn

1454
• Take out 4 mace 1 pike and 1 crossbowman outside of Boston. 1 grenadier lost.
• Settler-longbowman sent from Novgorod to 3rd island. This one is on auto route.

1460
• Take a peak at Washington with a Knight and see that America still has a large set of units there.


End summary
• We can revolt again in 3 turns if we need to ship some courthouses out as the American cities come out of revolt.
• There is a maceman near one of the Incan cities that I would move down to the American continent. Promote him to city raider and upgrade him to grenadier.
• I have the workboat from Pi-Rammesses auto routed up to our island city with the whales. I also have a boat with some workers heading there as well.

• I did fair share of chopping once we got chem. To speed up our build up

• Our power is going through the roof and Roosevelt has dropped significantly.

• I guess the question now is whether to attack Washington or go around it to New York. New York seems an easier target but I would wait until Boston is a bit stronger and out of revolt incase Roosevelt attacks with his monster stack in Washington.

• I think that is it, it was a monster of a turn. Took me 3 hours to play only 10 turns. I did not move all the units in the last turn. So make sure to check. I probably forget to tell you something as well as there is a lot going on. Just take a good look at the map before doing anything.


If you have not checked it already read the spoiler from the team that is moving faster than us. We are way ahead of them in the game. Our power is equal to their power now and we are several hundred years earlier. I hope we have shot at winning this, but I think we can be pretty sure we will not be getting the spoon. Though with team Chaos that probably never was a possibility.
Also I am not going to write anymore in the spoiler because in reading the other teams entry it became obvious that they made contact with all the other Civs without knowing where they are, even India. Though I am sure they have progressed since that time another group may come along and be able to use our info to get a little ahead. So I will just write everything else in the final spoiler when the time comes.
 
Looks good. I still would draft some muskets to provide defence, insted of building Long Bowman. One more GM would be a great help to as to sustain our trust and not fall to mach back in research.
Saladin now overcome Roosevelt in PowerGraff.
 
I put longbwman in because they were cheaper and with nobody else ever getting to astronomy except gahndi we do not have to worry abour bieng attacked on that continent. Our frigates can make sure that remains the case. I agree about greating Great merchants, I put a bunch more merchants in Elephatine with the switch to caste sytem to help expedite this. I guess we will get 2-3 more out during the game.
I wonder if Saldin will jump into the war at some point. If he does we should tell him to attack the easternmost city to get his units out of place.
 
Good work Blast.

Washington is going to be a beast to take because of all the cats it has. I would probably bypass it and head to New York which would hopefully entice some of those cats and other units to leave Washington where we could take them much easier out in the open. If we do go after Washington next make sure to bring a massive stack containing mixed arms with a counter to all his units because after the cats attack every unit in our stack will be injured.
 
Great turn Blastoid. That means I'm up right? I should be able to play tomorrow AM.

I've not been able to look at the map, but I likely will go around Washington to NY. If he blasts us with those cats and backs it up with some of his other units, he can take down quite a few units easily.

By the way, are we shutting down research after steel? Just going pure military?

Anything to be thinking relative to PA?
 
WE still need to support our empire economically and tru to suppress our competitor. I would go in derection of democracy.
Newver undeestimate effect of Emancipation.
 
democracy is not a bad idea. Also Gahndi is likely to research it. and force us there. I would ust prioritize upgrading our units first. after that is done then research towards democracy.
 
Important - I forget who goes after me, but I've not set Civics after capturing the Pyramids in Washington (on my last turn), we'll definitely want to change and may want to go slavery to get Pop-rushing going on Courthouses, Barracks, Units, etc.

Turn Report -

T1 - 1466

Founded city by deer and fur, needs to grow borders to control island
Stack came out of Washington towards boston
We need to get settler to island in east to settle it before Ghandi finds and settles - oh never mind, found a ship on

the way there - good job blast

T2 - 1472

Movement, not much action

T3 - 1478

Finally killed the stack by Boston, lost one guy, should be able to go after Washington and NY quickly
Bad luck on a couple of attacks at NY, so going to hold for another turn or two - I don't want to suicide a bunch of

cats

T4 - 1484

ZZZ

T5 - 1490

Couple of bad losses (90+% to win and we lost), but captured NY

IBT: cats from Washington takes down some of our units - bound to happen

T6 - 1496

T7 - 1502

Founded on island
At some point we should go to slavery to pop-rush courthouses, but not sure of timing, most of the cities are small and

still need lots of production

Sorry - I feel like I'm moving slow against Americans and they are being annoying with Knights, Cats, etc.

Just lost 94% attack against Thracian - wow, I'm having bad rolls

Great Merchant completed in Elephantine - probably Saladin will offer the most? Headed there

T8 - 1508

Took Thracian
War weariness is creeping up back home

T9 - 1516

Washington is close to down, SF next turn as well
WW is 8 in Elephantine
Will start to build up army for going after Cyrus

T10 - 1520

Steel completed, I started Mil Trad because we'll have Pyramids by the end of this turn and turned Science to 0% since I don't know if we care about future research (not sure I agree on Democracy) and we need some upgrades on units. Canons cost a bunch (270) from Cats. On the other hand with captures and merchant, we'll have lots of bucks soon.

America offers Banking for peace, I don't accept, but do we want to leave him one city for 10 turns at some point to get banking and go after Sal for a while, since our Merchant is just getting there, probably can't be for a couple of turns

SF and Washington fall - I haven't changed civics based on capture of Pyramids and will save before end of turn. We may want to go to Slavery at same time to pop-rush a couple courthouses, but not sure.

-----

Overall, my turns moved way too slow. Taking some bad losses definitely slowed me down. Hopefully, we can just keep the military going fast, kill off Sal and be into Cyrus in the next two turn sets. We are probably 30-40 turns from conquest of everyone except Ghandi. That will get us near the top, but doubtful that it's a winner. If the timing on Sal and Cyrus is about right, then let's make sure we don't wait too long to be getting an attack force on Cyrus. Having to move troops from Sal's area over to Cyrus would be way too slow.

Any chance that we can pull off a PA with Ghandi to get a quicker result? Or at least attempt it?

We should also look at moving up Culture slider at a point to help with expansion of cities, but probably not for a couple of turnsets.

Any other ideas on how to squeeze out a few turns here at the end?

Save file:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD1520_01.Civ4SavedGame
 
By the way, I'm not sold on Democracy for Emancipation to "improve economy and supress enemies" - our attackable enemies are going to die pretty quickly - we don't care about economy except in terms of having dollars for upgrades.

Oh, and I just realized that I never did anything with Elephantine. We got the Merchant, are we aggressively going after another? Doh.

Roster -

Mutineer -
Strobe -
Conroe-
Blastoidstalker
Doc TK
Harok - Up
amh52 - on deck

Go getem Harok! FYI - I have a few ships on longer moves back and forth with main island and Sal/America island to get troops over.
 
I think we should take out Saladin before Cyrus. It would be nice to claim that entire island before Gandhi gets a Settler over there. Once FDR is wiped out and our trade mission is complete, I say we declare on Saladin.
EDIT: This, of course, assumes that we have enough troops on the island to take out Saladin ...

In the meantime, there is no reason that we cannot be ferrying troops over to Pi-Ramesses in preparation.

As for Emancipation, we may be forced to get it if Gandhi switches. It would be nice if we already had the required techs when the emancipation penalty kicks in.
 
Good work Doc taking both NY and Wash especially with the Random Number going against you.

I wish I was up again already but I just played, I think you were looking at the order from the round where I switched with you. I think it should be:

Mutineer - On deck
Strobe
Conroe
Harok
Blastoidstalker
Doc TK
amh52 - Up

As for what I would do next. Finish off Roosevelt I wouldn't worry about the 10 turns of peace for Banking. Domination speed is what matters and banking won't help us all that much. Keep sending units to this landmass for the war with Saladin which should occur just as soon as we finish Roosevelt and have troops in position. Assuming things are going well there and Saladin hasn't quickly built a massive army I would start diverting new troops to Pi-Ramseses and fight both Saladin and Cyrus at once. Cyrus is without horses so he won't have any mounted units with 2 movement to worry about.

Research wise I would either leave it off or do Military Tradition and then turn it off. I doubt Gandhi goes to Emancipation quick enough (if at all before we end the game) to affect us too badly.

On civics I would probably go for Slavery to whip courthouses and Police State to avoid war weariness and help us get units built even faster.
 
Good job Blastoid and Doc.

I've got the save but haven't looked at it yet. I'll probably play tomorrow.
 
I look on save.
I advice on turn 0 to trade chemistry to Gandy for banking + all his gold (1520)
and revolt to representtion/Mercantenilism/Slavery
We starving all thsi american population for nothing.
We need to whipe theaters and courthouses befor population starve. I notice we lost about 20 population point to starvation.

Do not undestand why we did not revolt to slavery the moment first american city come from resistance as blastoidstalker adviced.
Remember, we are spiritual, revolts cost nothing to as.
 
Why Representation instead of police state?

Representation would be cheaper and help a few cities with happiness the extra research wouldn't help us at this point. Police State would help with happiness in all cities and give us a big help with our military unit production and I think we can handle the extra money no problem considering we have all the techs we need to win so we can just lower the slider 10%.
 
I looked at the save too. I agree with Mutineer about trade and fixing starving issue in America. For Civics I was also thinking police state but I'll have a look at representation.

Is it worth trying to generate a GA in Elephantine rather than a GM to expand cultural borders faster towards the end?
 
What did we want to do with the last settler? Is it for the small island by HC?
 
Sorry about the confusion on the list. I was looking at the one with the switch. So, I guess Harok and I can't just keep switching back and forth. :)

My vote would be for Police state as well. Especially if we are not going to take peace with Americans in next turn or two. If we take peace then we can wait a few turns before going to Police state.

My vote on research would be to go to 0. I don't think we are going to need Cav and I agree with mutineer that its likely that Ghandi won't force us to Emancipation that soon.
 
The reason I built the extra settler was that I had not seen the automove Galleon with a settler on it. So, I don't have any specific plans on it, but sometimes an extra can be helpful to fill in a hole.
 
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