SGOTM 01 - Team One

Strobe · May 29, 2006

T1: Bombard away. Decide to use the 2 kinghts to pillage iron. I don't think we will need to pillage much else though as HC is not strong.

T2: Paper discovered. Use GS for education, will take 5 further turns. Bombard is nearly completed.
Whip observatory in Elephantine. Assign a couple of merchants and change production to forge.

T3: Lose knight against axeman protecting iron in open

. Take him with second knight but now cannot pillage.
Suicide one catapult into HC each of the cities we have on siege.
RND now in our favour, I take a longbow with 7% chance

. Vilcabamba falls with next maceman attack.
Another maceman (1 city promotion) takes out longbow at Coriy and it falls to 2nd maceman.
Think long and hard about razing it, but as it hasn't been discussed decide to keep it.
Pillage iron resource and start going for the other one.
With the gold we have won I set science rate up to 70% (4 turns to education).
Renegotiate Ghandi spice deal for another 1gpt.
Assign 4 merchants at elephantine.
Set Moscow building observatory.
Trade sheep for clam get and 6gpt for sugar with roosevelt.

T4: Now building a few more catapults. We probably about have enough units to finish this war already.
Start bombard of Tiwanaku.

T6: Education --> Liberalism (10 turns). Thebes building University in 8 turns.
We really don't have enough cats for this war. Maceman/knights will not have good odds without 2 upgrades, but with one suicide (cheap) catapult first we are nearly gauranteed to take city with no further losses.

T7: Attack with 2 knights at 66% and win both

Tiwanku falls to next maceman, and has gold resource so should pay for itself.
Vilcabamba comes out of anarchy, so set to build courthouse.
We have enough gold for now to keep 70% science.

T8: Assuming we are to attack someone else next (Saladin ?) I start building longbowmen to defend new cities.
Pillage Iron, which is last HC military resource.
HC makes a strategic play to spy on elephantine with a caravel. Forgetting naval warfare in civ is dodgy and currently having a bloodlust I attack with Galleon and die. Curse myself and carry on.

T10: Start moving three new catapults up to Vilcas which has 3 longbowman. They will meet up with small force to take it out.
Main force now moving to HC Capital which has 3 longbowmen, 1 knight, 1 crossbow, 1 catapult, 1 spear.
We have 9 maceman and 4 catapults.

Spoiler :

We have taken 3 cities with losses of 2 catapults and 1 galleon (I know, I know).

The war seems to be going okay and HC will die very easily.

We need to look forward a bit more, or at least discuss it anyway as I was unsure whether we wanted to just keep building more units. Some cities I have changed to build infrasructure if it will improve our financial situation.

blastoidstalker · May 29, 2006

I think that once we take out HC we want to move on to Saldin or Rooservelt as soon as possible. I think tech wise we will need to get to grenaders and frigates. Pas that cavelary would be nice not may not be neccesary. I haven't taken a look at what techs we need to get to this place, but I think we can just keep on fighting, with just a sort hiatus as we shift units to the new continent.
I do believe we should get the forbidden pace in HC's lands and eat the mainance costs on the Saladin;s content as we will be close to the end by then and research will not be nearly as important.

Conroe · May 29, 2006

It looks like I'm up!

Strobe said:
Think long and hard about razing it, but as it hasn't been discussed decide to keep it.

I would vote that we keep them, considering our goal of domination.

blastoidstalker said:
I think tech wise we will need to get to grenaders and frigates.

How does the team feel about turning research off after Chemistry? We could start accumulating cash for Grenadier upgrades. Maybe turn it back on for Steel research, but then turn it off after that. The excess cash would allow us to support more troops and more cities. It would also fund increased use of the culture slider for happiness. Plus, do we really need any other units than Grenadiers, Frigates, and Cannons?

Mutineer · May 29, 2006

Personally I would include natrionalism and liberalism in list.
After education I would check is Liberalism shot shitll avalible (It migth be, as we speed up Education with GS), do not trade education and look does Gangy has education. If he does not, we still have liberalism avalible.
Take Nationalism from liberalism, then we can go chemistry.

Conroe · May 29, 2006

Strobe said:
T6: Education --> Liberalism (10 turns).

Don't know if the free tech is still available, but it looks like we are 6 turns away from having Liberalism.

Mutineer · May 29, 2006

Opps, miss that

Harok · May 30, 2006

At this point I think we just need to keep pumping units without worrying too much about buildings except for courthouses in new cities and an occassional building in the core where it makes sense. For research I agree with Mutineer and Conroe about going to Nationalism and Chemistry and then shutting off research.

blastoidstalker · May 30, 2006

maybe I am missing something here but why is nationalism where we stop (I agree chemistry makes sense) I would guess if we would take nationalism with liberalism that we would continue on to military tradion and end there as we can then upgrade our knights to cavelery. Is there a specific reason to just end at nationalism just for itself?

Mutineer · May 30, 2006

We do ot have to stop to research, but nationalism is very good for big undeveloped empires, as it is NO Upkeep civic and it let as to draft army fast when needed.

Strobe · May 30, 2006

Ghandi does not have education yet so I went the liberalism route.

I would also go nationalism --> chemistry.

Saladin is that backwards we should be able to take him with our existing army, possibly bolstered by some grenadiers as they come online.

I doubt we will need to go beyond chemistry/steel to win the game.

Conroe, On the razing issue I was only going to raze the one city to save some maintenance. The city in the North was only size 2 and had nothing of any use, our culture would regain the land for domination. If I was in single player game I would have razed it.

Conroe · May 30, 2006

I just looked at the save, and Liberalism is due in 7 turns. If we have to reduce the research slider because of maintenance costs (very probable), it will add a turn to the research. The free tech is still available. Gandhi still doesn't have Education, so we will most likely get Liberalism first. We can take either Gunpowder (9 turns) or Nationalism (15 turns) as our free tech. Personally, I think Nationalism is the better choice.

There has also been some discussion of building the Forbidden Palace on Capac's island. So, I thought I would take a look at the possibility of Versailles, since we now have a Great Engineer. The enabling tech, Divine Right, is already known by Gandhi and Capac. Gandhi is unwilling to trade it. We have no access to Marble and cannot trade for it. Since Gandhi is Industrious and has access to Marble, my guess is we won't get it.

If we really want the Versailles, we should probably take Divine Right as our free tech. Cuzco looks to be a high-hammer city, we could use the GE to complete most of the wonder and hopefully have the wonder built in another 5 or so turns. I'm not sure that the risk is worth it, though, so we should probably just ignore Divine Right unless Gandhi decides to trade it to us.

blastoidstalker · May 30, 2006

I agree with taking nationalism with liberalism. then beelining for chemistry after chemistry stop to 0 research until maces are upgraded. then researching Military tradition, stop upgrade knights then going for steel stop and upgrade cats.
If Gahndi is not trading us divine right It may be because he is building versaille. In a previous game I rember that a GE only partialy builds Versaille. I would not want to waste our time trying to get versaille in HC's isalnd and then losing it.
I would suggest either putting forbidden palace in HC's or Saldins land.

the advantege of HC's land is that its effects come in earlier, even though we will have nasty maintiance costs for saldins and rooservelts land, we should be done reseearching by then

the advantage of Salidns land is the HC is not really that far away from our capital and we would be able to digest the cost easier and salidn+ rooservelt is larger total number of cities.
either way I would use the great engineer to make the forbbiden palace, with this we do not need to worry about production just getting the most central city.

Harok · May 30, 2006

I meant to stop research at Military Tradition and Chemistry, I just messed up and typed Nationalism. I don't see us needing anything besides Grenadiers and Cavalry to get to domination.

I would put the Forbidden Palace in HCs land and not worry about trying for Versailles.

Harok · May 30, 2006

There is a spoiler thread up.....
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=172425

Sounds like we need a scribe to describe our game....any volunteers?

blastoidstalker · May 30, 2006

I am willing to write it our split it with anybody else who wants to write part of it. I would like to split it up into two seperate write ups. A literary one and a stratigic one. I would be more interested in writing the literary if someone wants to write the stratigic. then we would post them one oafter the other.

If you want to see how I write when being more literary check out
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169854

Conroe · May 31, 2006

I don't recall who said it, but they were dead on right. We really do need a lot more Catapults. Unfortunately, our production cities are otherwise occupied with Longbowmen. And, I can certainly see the need for longbows considering that we are defending the captured cities with Macemen that could otherwise be engaging the enemy ...

I also notice that war weariness is starting to accumulate, especially in some of our larger cities. Nothing major at the moment, but we will need to keep an eye on it.

Turn 0 - 1280AD: I MM a couple of the cities; nothing major, as things look pretty good to me. The University build in Thebes gets preempted for a quick Settler. The site east of Memphis (was it blue dot?) will make a good production city, especially if we lay some workshops down on those floodplains.

Meanwhile, in Pi-Ramesses, I :whipped:

the Buddhist Temple. And, since I don't anticipate any more use of the whip over the next 5 turns, I revolt to Serfdom. It will speed up our Workers in the meantime. And, it is easy enough to switch back to slavery when we need it.

IBT: Capac dispatchs a Maceman out of Machu Picchu to attack our pillaging Knight. The mace puts up a good fight, but our Knight prevails.

Turn 1 - 1286AD: Pi-Ramesses completes its Buddhist Temple and starts on a University. Byblos completes a Longbowman and starts on a Catapult.

Our Cuzco attack force must step out into the open in order to approach the city. It will be in position to attack in 2 turns.

IBT: The Knight in Cuzco attacks our stack. Capac's Knight has a 73% chance of winning, but our Maceman carries the day!

Turn 2 - 1292AD: Both Memphis and Alexandria complete a Longbowman and start on a Catapult next.

Turn 3 - 1298AD: Alexandria completes a Catapult and starts another one.

Meanwhile, our forces arrive outside of Cuzco. I give our 4 Catapults Accuracy promotions as the city has an 85% defense bonus. We bombard the defenses down to 25%. From the screenshot, you can see that HC is bringing in another longbow to defend his capital. Our Knight will take care of the reinforcements ...

Meanwhile, a Galleon drops off two Catapults for the assualt on Vilcas.

Turn 4 - 1304AD: Giza completes a Harbor and starts a Library. Thebes, meanwhile, completes the Settler and resumes work on its University.

Our 2 Catapults at Vilcas lower the defenses of the city to 31%. Meanwhile, the defenses of Cuzco are taken out by our Catapults there. The attack of Cuzco is on!

First up, we suicide a Catapult against the city. One of his Longbowmen survives unscathed. So, I next suicide a lowly City Raider I Maceman against the healthy LB. So far, we are 0-2 against Cuzco. Our City Raider I Maceman has a 30% chance of defeating HC's Crossbowman, but we prevail! The odds are improving for our next City Raider I Maceman; he has a 40% chance of defeating a Longbowman. Instead, he dies without even scratching the LB. Next, 2 of our City Raider II Macemen take out a couple of Longbowmen. The score is now tied at 3-3. Next, HC's last Longbowman falls to our Maceman. Capac has nothing but 4 Catapults remaining. Unfortunately, we have only 3 units with movement. Our Knights take out 2 of the cats and our mace takes out a 3rd, leaving only a single cat until next turn. Final score 7-3 with the city still standing ...

Turn 5 - 1310AD: Memphis and Alexandria both complete Catapults.

Cuzco's last Catapult falls to our Knight. We have captured a Worker. The city will come out of revolt in 8 turns.

Meanwhile, the defenses of Vilcas are lowered to 8%. Our Knights easily capture the city, taking out 2 Longbowmen and a Quecha, without a single loss. We pick up yet another Worker. The city will come out of revolt in 4 turns. Our remaining troops are loaded into a waiting Galleon for a trip down the coast to Machu Picchu.

IBT: We lose a Galley to an Incan Caravel.

Turn 6 - 1316AD: Liberalism comes in. I take Nationalism as the free tech. Start research on Gunpowder, due in 7 turns.

Byblos completes a Catapult and starts a Longbowman.

Lastly, the production city of El-Amarna is founded on the eastern coast. It immediately begins building a Forge. Unfortunately, I am now forced to lower the research slider to 60%, thus adding a turn to the Gunpowder research.

While cropping the above screenshot, I notice that I forgot to send an MP along to the city.

Turn 7 - 1322AD: Moscow completes an Observatory and begins a University.

Next, we sink an Incan Caravel and bombard the defenses of Machu Picchu down to 28%.

Turn 8 - 1328AD: Memphis completes a Catapult and starts a Longbowman, while Alexandria does the same.

The defenses of Machu Picchu are decimated, and the battle is on! It may be a tough fight, though, as I notice the city was built upon a hill. Our Knight has a 30% chance, but manages to defeat the first Longbowman. HC has 1 LB remaining while we have 2 City Raider Macemen available. The first mace dies but inflicts enough damage to allow the other mace to take the city. The city will come out of revolt in 6 turns.

With over 500 gold in the bank now, I up the research slider back to 70%. Gunpowder is due in 5 turns

Since Engineering is a prerequisite of Chemistry, I decide to do a trade with Roosevelt. We pick up Engineering, his map, and 180 gold for Philosophy and Paper. This may not have been the wisest move, as I would discover a couple of turns later. :sad:

Turn 9 - 1334AD: Novgorod completes a Library and starts a University. Alexandria completes a Longbowman and starts another one.

Turn 10 - 1340AD: A Great Merchant is born in Elephantine! :banana:

There is a Caravel, on GoTo orders, enroute to pick him up.

Thebes completes a University and begins a Catapult.

Notes: War weariness is starting to become an issue. Fortunately, it won't be an issue for much longer, as Huayna Capac is down to his last 2 cities.

Huamanga, Capac's heavily defended city, should fall next turn. We have 3 Macemen and 3 Catapults to his Combat 3 Maceman and unpromoted Longbowman. Once we get some Catapults over to Ollantaytambo, his capital with a 40% defense bonus, the city will also fall. This city is being defended by an unpromoted Longbowman, a Catapult, and a Combat III Quecha.

Gunpowder is due in 3 turns. We can have Chemistry in 13 or 14 turns, depending on how high we can keep our research slider. As for our Great Merchant, I would give serious thought to sending it to Arabia or America. I think we would get the most gold somewhere on that island.

I know there has been some discussion of attacking Saladin, next. We may want to consider Roosevelt instead. Take a look at the GNP graph, below. He could potentially be a tech runaway if we do not get him under out thumb. We could possibly get Saladin to join us; although, at the moment he "does not like us well enough" to declare on FDR.

We also need to think about building some more Galleons. A lot more, in fact. The quickest way to move an army on this map is by boat. Most of the cities are coastal cities. Load the survivors onto some Galleons and sail down the coast to the next city. The Galleon will move 5 tiles versus the 1 tile at a time for a Catapult. This obviously won't work on the interior cities, but if a city is coastal or one tile away it will get the troops into combat that much quicker.

For the benefit of the lurkers, here is a look at our potential next targets:

Conroe · May 31, 2006

Roster Check:
Mutineer
Strobe
Conroe - Just Played
Harok - UP
Blastoidstalker - On Deck
Doc TK
amh52

The save ...

Mutineer · May 31, 2006

Good set of turns.
I would suggest to pay attention to economy a bit so we do work cottages we have. There no need to destroy economy complitly, as it will take some time to get 64% of land yet.

blastoidstalker · May 31, 2006

I would get the GE over to Cuzco and build the forbidden palace there as soon as it comes out of revolt. That shoulkd help our economy.

Strobe · May 31, 2006

Nice switch on the civics conroe.

I agree on getting the GE over to the HC lands for the FP.

I was thinking of Saladin next originally to use our existing force as he is so backwards, but as you say roosevelt needs to be shown who is boss first I think :mad:

. By the time we get to him we should be able to upgrade to grendaiers anyway as tech is going quite well.

64% is still going to take quite a while to achieve.

SGOTM 01 - Team One

Warlord

The Geographer

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Deity

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Deity

Vagabond

The Geographer

Deity

Warlord

√∞

The Geographer

Vagabond

Vagabond

The Geographer

√∞

√∞

Deity

The Geographer

Warlord

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