SGOTM 01 - Team One

Turn 0 - 400BC: I convert to Hinduism expecting a turn of anarchy when it dawns on me we don't have any anarchy because of our traits. :eek: I switch Memphis to a Galley and I change a couple of tiles we are working to make a couple extra gold, move 1 warrior inside city limits for another gold and up the science slider by 10% to get Currency in one less turn.

Turn 1 - 385BC: Worker N of Moscow heads to Alexandria to help get its cow and copper developed. Work boat finds a barb city.

Turn 2 - 370BC: Workers complete roading the silver giving us 1 more happiness and head to Elephantine's hill to help it get some buildings done.

Turn 4 - 355BC: zzzzz

Turn 5 - 340BC: Chariot in Thebes heads to Memphis so it can be loaded into the Galley which will be done next turn to explore Gandhi's landmass.

Turn 6 - 325BC: Currency is completed start on Code of Laws which is due in 15. Galley completes in Memphis and I start a work boat which will go to Elephantine to work the fish or clam. I switch Thebes build from the Aquaduct to a Market.

I make 2 trades with Gandhi giving our extra Rice for his Wheat and then trading what is currently our only fish for 3GPT. We don't need the health from the fish right now and will hook up another one near Elephantine soon. We need to keep an eye on Gandhi's GPT and other possible resources to see if we want to cancel it for a better deal.

Turn 7 - 310BC: zzzzz

Turn 8 - 295BC: zzzzz

Turn 9 - 280BC: Memphis completes Workboat and switches back to its Aquaduct. The workboat heads north to get to Elephantine.

Turn 10 - 265BC: Moscow completes worker and starts on a Barracks. Novgorod finishes worker (both of these workers head to Novgorod as it only has 1 worked tile while Moscow has lots) and starts on a galley. This can be switched if wanted but I started it because our work boat runs into....


...who is south of Gandhi.


Wanting to be the one to declare war on everyone I instantly declare war on him........relax I'm only joking, I offer him peace, for now. :lol:

He is at -2 relations with Gandhi and -1 with us (-2 for religion +1 for peace) I didn't do any deals with him although the next player will probably want to sign Open Borders so we can scout him and possibly trade one of our 4 cows for +1 GPT depending if we think the gold would help us more than an extra health would aid him. I didn't get to see any of his cities but just looking at the trade possibilities he probably has copper as he is in Slavery but copper doesn't show up in our trade list. He doesn't have horses however as it is one of the resources we have he wants.

Closing thoughts - If we are going to war with him soon, Memphis could easily get another galley or 2 finished quickly. On tile usage I emphasized tiles producing coins but a few could be switched to up our production. When Elephantine grows I would work the mined hill to help it get some infrastructure built (mainly a library so it can generate Great Scientists) after the workboat. Code of Laws is due in 11 turns so if we do war with him we will be able to build courthouses as it will take awhile before we can get enough troops to take any of his cities.

I sent a warrior towards Memphis so the warrior there could head to Elephantine which would free up that chariot to move also in case we want to war with him.

We may want to think about settling a city in the area between us and Gandhi which would eventually claim 5 (4 workable if settled on the incense) resources. Two of which are happiness resources not on our island, although both require Calendar. I'm not suggesting we do this right now but it might not be a bad move a little later on.
 
I got the save and will play it tomorrow, it's a bit late for it tonight.
I took a quick look though and we have some big decisions to make

First a couple of more pieces of info
Our military is 9 war chariots and 5 warriors
are navy is a galley we could produce 2 more in about 10 turns with no form of rushing (one in novrgard one in Alexandria) or two from Memphis in about the same time.

Our research is at 50% and we will finish COL in 11 turns at current rate
We are losing 7 gold a turn due to troop maint. There are two warriors guarding resources though are chariots are covering all for on our island. I suggest we disband them and save 2 gold per turn.

Our big decisions are how quickly we want to strike Cyrus. If we do strike quickly I would suggest IW next (we need it for Optics and Compass) and it hopefully gives us swordsmen, which we will need to take Cyrus's cities at this point. This decision should hit in the next turn set so we have a little time to talk it out.

Another question is hanging gardens in Memphis. It is being prepped with the aqueduct ready to be done in 2 turns. I think it will be done in 17 turns with no rushing and maybe around 10-12 with 1 chop and some whip. I like the idea of picking up this wonder because we have a lot of small cities and the increase in there size should help us immensely at this juncture. If we put some engineers in the city later we should be able to spawn 1 engineer here too.

My current plan is to put one more chariot on the galley (there are 2 in Novgorod) and move clockwise around Gandhi’s and Cyrus's continent. Letting them off to scout (this would mean open boarders with Cyrus). Build to more galleys by end of turn set and push hanging gardens close to completion. The only thing in here that I think is debatable is hanging gardens so if you do not like the idea s
 
My question is, what the point of attacking Cyrus now?

He is to far away to occupy cities. I think we better explore more and try to find more trade partners. We still have space on our island and near by to settle.
 
A lot to think about.

Way too risky to declare on Cyrus without seeing his lands/cities, scouting the other island is a high priority now.

Alphabet may not be the best tech to research next, have to decide after COL.

Like the idea of settling on Ghandi's land near spices, probably won't have time before he settles it but woud be nice as we cannot take his cities.

It worries me slightly that we need domination and normally I would have to kill all civs but 1, and sometimes (rarely) this isn't enough. So if Ghandi takes cyrus and expands all his island, could this make domination difficult/impossible ? In this case we really need to expand through cyrus and any empty land sooner rather than later.
 
Permanent alliances are in game. So, it is not a problem if we do not do anything to create long term diplomatic damage to our relationship with Gandy. Gandy rarelly figth agressive wars, so, no mach danger to him become to big. On other hand he could research a lot.
 
As Ghandi is the only player we will not be destroying or hampering too much as mutineer says he will do well researching tech therefore we could maybe do with making sure everyone else hates him so he does not trade too much.

Trading with Ghandi could be important as we can go for expensive military tech and trade for others he will research.

A minor concern but I guess there is no way Ghandi could hit spaceship before we get domination unless our game really does go badly.
 
My thoughts...

Personally I wouldn't do the Hanging Gardens because most of our cities have tons of food and will expand on their own really fast soon and because it would mean tying up our best production city for a long time.

As for next techs, I think it will depend on what Cyrus's cities look like but I would go with either Alphabet or Construction. I think Cats would help us a lot more in a war with Cyrus than Swords. Bomb the culture defense down because he is also Creative, have 1 cat attack and then chariots should be able to mop up. I really think we want to hit him before he gets the next generation of bows and a stack of 5 cats, our chariots, and an axe or 2 would tear right through him. If Cyrus gets to that resource rich spot he will be able to build Immortals.

I would probably not disband the warriors if we plan to attack so that they can be the MP and the chariots are free to go attack. If we decide to wait a while before attacking then I would disband them.

Just by looking at the small amount of Cyrus's land I think he is at the southern tip of it and we won't find anyone else on it. Side note he is also Expansive so I doubt he has health issues and this means we can probably trade him a cow for gold without giving him much benefit.

As for Gandhi, we don't have to keep perfect relations with him but as Strobe points out having him around will allow us to research the war and water techs and trade with him for the others.

Putting my warmonger ways aside I do see it as a possible advantage to just leave him alone for now so we have more trade partners and we can try to get as big a lead on the rest of the world as possible, find and take them out and then come back to deal with Cyrus as he is so close.

Can anyone say fork in the road?:D
 
Thinking about for the night a big question for me is do we want to take out Cyrus next or last. He is relatively close to us and with a open bparders Gahndi we can easily get units to his land quick. 1-2 transports and roads and railroads. It is always good to have your last oppenent close for a quick domination.

If we leave him for last (which makes sense to me) then I would think we would want Alphabet to trade then go for Optics. I would suggest going IW, compass, metal casting, Machinary optics. then we could send caravals out to scout and get some harbours built.

I will see if I can rush a settler down there on the other island, are people Ok If I do some extreme whipping in one city (novgard?) to do it. as Time may be of the essence there and it will get us 1-2% of land away from gahndi.
 
I'm fine with going for expanding to Ghandi's land.

Not sure about leaving cyrus....I guess on the island with Ghandi he does not pose a threat to our dominance but extra cities as quick as possible is nearly always good.

I was worried about Cyrus/Ghandi war but I guess it could go both ways. If Cyrus wins we can kill him for more land but if Ghandi wins then potentially this could be very bad.

So... if we leave Cyrus alone I agree on your tech plan to optics so we can see what's out there and should go for navigating the world for the extra movement asap. We may still struggle on happiness though with this path depending on our trades ?
 
If Cyrus and Gandhi go to war I expect things to go really poorly for Cyrus. Gandhi has nearly doubled his score and I believe a few wonders.

In a single player game I would probably try to take Cyrus out next instead of last because I think we have an advantage over him with our UU still a factor as I don't see it being useful by the time we meet anyone else but it is still possible the Eastern part of the Gandhi/Cyrus island reaches out to another landmass. And if we have to wait until everyone else is gone we may be beaten by other teams who took him out early and then just had the others at the end. But as I said earlier I can certainly see the upside of keeping him around and going after him last. Whatever the team and more specifically Blast decides will work for me. We just need to make a firm decision as soon as possible as we don't want to waste time and then try to kill him only to have him start producing Crossbows and Longbows and it is hard to tell where on the tech tree he is at without alphabet.
 
I think I would like to see a bit more of the map before making this decision. If he's weak and we can take him out easily with our chariots, I would do it. Otherwise I think it is best to wait for later.

If we settle down there I would like to consider researching Calendar after Alphabet. That would help happiness and cash flow. It's not directly needed for Optics but it is needed for Astronomy. Also I am hoping we can get IW from Gandhi once we start trading.

If Gandhi gets too big we can always try the diplomatic win. It might not be the fastest but it is an option.
 
265 BC Switch Production in Moscow to Settler, I do some MM to get Thebes up to 7 pop faster so we can put in an extra scientist

250 BC Workboat in Alexandria finished, start barracks (IMOP Alexandria looks to be a best production city in the long run) it is announced that we are the sixth wealth. Pretty useless info

235 BC Whip workboat in Elephantine to get the city rolling. Bringing worker up to chop one forest in Moscow to speed forest along. Start hanging gardens in Memphis (some may disagree with this, but I see it as the most useful option right now)

220 BC Start lighthouse in elephantine.

205 BC zzzz

190 BC cottage finished in Novgorod to chariots planted on southern continent and sent south to scout Cyrus

175 BC Find Cyrus just south of proposed city scout. Settler whipped in Moscow.

160 BC Start producing barracks in Moscow, we find Cyrus’s copper south of future city site in a very pillagable location.

145 BC settler and 1 more chariot picked up for southern continent

130 BC ZZZZZZ

115 BC Pi Ramses is founded on incense on southern continent. Alexandria finishes barracks. COL finished. I put research on alphabet but no beakers have been invested so next research tech can be changed if we want.


Things of note
Thebes will expand and get an unhappy in a few turns, so its tile allocation should be changed to prevent growth until we get more happy.

I started building a road between the two parts of our empire for easier movement up and down our island

The exploring workboat is moving back towards Pi Ramses. As I can not see any place for it to explore it should be placed on the fish near this city when it expands.

I have put some screens showing Cyrus’s land and his resources.

Hanging gardens will be built in 8

On the question of Cyrus first of last? I think we need more discussion on this. In my Turn set I could proceed in a path that left both options open as we needed to scout regardless and the Pi Ramses is needed either way. And we need to get some barracks built in production centers as well. The next tech choice will force us to make a decision
From the scouting I am not sure if his lands really look that good and putting a forbidden palace or Versailles in a location where we will only get 4-5 cities (because of India) makes it an economic drain.




 
I'm with amh on this. We should scout him more before we do much else.

BTW, we don't need more than one Galley given that there's a quick hop between continents (or at least that's what it looks like).

I'm definitely in favor of getting Alpha so we can try to trade. I like the idea of Calendar and then Optics to help with happiness. This is based on settling the two happy resource spot Harok is pointing to.

I'm not a big fan of putting up another city for a while. We should get our tech rate up first. Of course, the juicy spot that Harok points to means that we should be ready as we are getting Calendar. But that's a while yet, right?

Going after Cyrus depends on what he has (are there easy cities to kill/take that have important resources?). I don't think spending time on Construction is a great idea because it will take a long time and then you have to build and move the Cats. If he's easy to hit with Chariots, then let's hit him quick and raze stuff unless its really juicy. If not, let's maybe even get rid of a couple of Warrior to reduce cost.

Actually, after writing all of this, I just saw that Cyrus owns buddism (has holy city). That would be a nice prize. Let's scout and see if we might be able to grab it. Any way to know if he's got the Holy Wonder Building Thing? This might help us tremendously. So, maybe I'll change and want Cats/Swords to get holy city. Wow, I'm fickle.

Also, is there a reason that we are caring what Ghandi thinks about us. In other words, if we went Buddism, who cares that Ghandi doesn't like us. He may not trade a lot, but no worry of war?
 
I would rather avoid making him unhappy permanently in any way, but swapping religion is fine once we have more people to trade with.
 
Calender would give us access to three more luxeries, including one instantly (incense).
I got rushed the city into place because it was so close to Cyrus and Gahdni. Gahndi needed a boat to get there but Cyrus did not, so I felt it needed to be in place ASAP the two luxeries should be invaluable down the road.
 
Blastoid - did you submit the file?

I tried to download the one, but it was still at the start of your turnset (265).
 
Played my turnset, pretty boring. I stopped after 9 turns because wasn't 100% sure on tech direction at this point.

T1 - 90 BC
ZZZ

T2 - 85 BC
Created an Academy in Thebes, Leaving it working on GS let Elephantine grow and I've not yet converted civic

T3 - 70 BC
ZZZ

T4 - 55 BC
Persopolis might be good to take, not that well defended, but I don't think it has the Shrine

T5 - 40 BC
Galley won a battle with Barb Galley

T6 - 25 BC
ZZZ

T7 - 10 BC
ZZZZ

T8 - 5 AD
Finished Hanging Gardens

T9 - 20 AD
Finished Alpha
Ghandi asked for trade Currency for Calendar + 60 Gold (didn't have much option and didn't want to upset him)
Traded Cyrus Writing for Mysticism and Hunting + Gold
Started Iron Working (Ghandi doesn't have it and heads towards optics)
Couple of Cities ready to pop rush their court houses, but not sure if others do that as well

Save File at:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_AD0020_01.Civ4SavedGame

Good news is that our trajectory looks good right now, of course that looks better because of HG.

Big decision - should we continue to build economy and head towards optics? Or should we take out Cyrus now - I would go Construction for that?
 
>Created an Academy in Thebes
I was begging to discover Philosofy from it!
We do not have access to any religious civics!
What the need in Academy? It is just 10 research turn!
 
I got the save. I'll wait until tomorrow to play to give everyone a chance to give some input.

At this point I would just research all the way to Astronomy as quickly as possible and continue to develop the economy. Also if need be we can still settle a couple more cities on our island. So please let me know if you have a different opinion and want to attack Cyrus.
 
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