SGOTM 01 - V Q

Cosmichail · May 29, 2006

Did you notice that Cyrus now has a DP with Roosevelt. ARGH !!!! That means diplomatic victory will be very difficult although a lot more likely Ghandi will join in a PA. I noticed something else that Vassalage really doesn't benefit with extra two points/in addition to theocracy two points. Perhaps when you use the the two civics they don't give you 4 points but 2 only. Thus the only benefit would be the less maintenance costs for military with vassalage. One nice advantage of joining Ghandi in a PA is that you get all his technology and will be able to take out at least one civ to get that majority vote for a diplomatic victory. Good luck lots more warmongering....

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

You've got to be f'ing kidding me! ... I wonder if there's a way around the DPs so that we don't have to fight three nations at once.

Cosmichail · May 29, 2006

Roosevelt is likely to go into PA with somebody. From what I understand though PA can only be with one party. It is likely that the party left out will opt out of DP Cyrus/Saladin. My bet is Saladin as he easily opts out of deals more so than Cyrus. If that happens you must be ready to strike quickly against him so that you will have enough votes for diplomatic victory. Going against three will be difficult as Roosevelt has good techs. Frustrating aye although I like how this games throws these kinds of scenarios at you to get you thinking.

eektor · May 29, 2006

Oh this is going to be interesting. Roosevelt must be really scared of us or Gandhi. I'm not sure what to do about this right now.

Well, I took a look at the save. I might take most of my turns to finish up the Incans. I'll stay with the war time civics since there are still seems to be a lot of units being built yet.

I'm going to go eat and then play. So you got about an hour to add something before I play.

eektor · May 29, 2006

Ok after looking at the save again, Indians and Americans would not trade Education or Constitution with us. So I have an idea on how to do the trade.

I would get Divine Right and Banking from either the Americans or Indians for Chemistry.

I would get Printing Press from the Persians for Chemistry.

Now, I would trade Chemistry to either the Indians or Americans to go to war with the Incans.

1. If we go with the Indians we get a mutual military struggle that would help us have some + relationship points if Gandhi goes Free Religion before we get a PA with him

2. If we go with the Americans, we can eliminate the DP's that have been established with Persians and Arabians.

Personally, I'm thinking number 2 is the way to go so we could go straight on to the Arabians after a quick rebuild period.

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

eektor said:
1. If we go with the Indians we get a mutual military struggle that would help us have some + relationship points if Gandhi goes Free Religion before we get a PA with him

Doesn't work that way. PA is available once you have either had a DP or a "mutual struggle" for a long time (I think it has to reach +3). Other relationship points don't matter (obviously if you drop him to Annoyed he'll cancel the DP as soon as he can, but as long as you keep him Pleased you're ok).

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

Every knot was once a straight rope

My guess is that FDR is going to end up in a PA with someone if war doesn't intervene. Once he does, the other DP automatically cancels.

What this means:
If it's FDR+Saladin, Diplomatic is out unless we do a backdoor domination--and that involves keeping Cyrus in the game (can't do Diplomatic Victory with only 2 voters).

If it's FDR+Cyrus, we can get a Diplomatic if we can somehow convince Saladin to love us. I don't think FDR+Cyrus+Saladin can beat us in a diplomatic vote. The other alternative is to eliminate Saladin and go for Domination (or keep him with one city and go for backdoor)

...

What about the present?

If we declare on Saladin, FDR automatically declares on us. However, since FDR is declaring on us, Cyrus doesn't have to. He still might, but it's not required by the DP. Similarly, if we get a DP with Gandhi and we declare, he doesn't have to join in.

Here's the catch (and the million dollar question) ... do we try to win without Gandhi? We can win Domination if we take out FDR/Saladin (and maybe a bite out of Cyrus). We can land two forces -- one on each side of their border due South from the former Incan lands (oh, and take Saladin's city on the intervening island as a staging point). And pursue war until we win the game.

Just some thoughts.

EDIT: Eektor, you're a genius!

Eektor the Genius said:
Now, I would trade Chemistry to either the Indians or Americans to go to war with the Incans.
...
2. If we go with the Americans, we can eliminate the DP's that have been established with Persians and Arabians.

I was focusing on what you said with #1 that I totally missed #2. I think that may be the best course. The only concern is that FDR will try to re-establish the DP shortly thereafter, so we should probably declare on Saladin almost immediately after finishing off HC.

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

How about calling me a genius as well?

My Turnset Report said:
- Alternatively, you can try and use Chemistry to get Rosy to declare on HC.

--

I think eektor must be playing now, but I think the best course is to get American to declare on HC, and move our forces to American soil to prepare for an attack on Saladin. The minute HC is eliminated, declare on Saladin already!

Well that means keeping up the military built.

@Cosmichall: Geez, we keep missing the DP! :blush:

Thanks.

And no, Vassalage + Theocracy do give you +2 experience each. Coupled with barracks and maybe Heroic Epic, the best unit we can churn out is +8 exp, which means a level 2 unit.

eektor · May 29, 2006

I should have put number 2 first since that was what I was thinking of doing. Any other thoughts on it?

How soon should we declare war on Saladin after HC is done? ( That is if we break the DP)

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

GreyFox, you're a genius!

@eektor: I'd say it's going to pretty quick after HC is eliminated. We'll discuss after that happens.

@cosmichail: thanks for your good eyes ... make sure you stay out of other threads, though

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

Immediately, IMHO. We don't want to give Chemistry to Rosy and later find that the DP is back in effect before we had a chance to declare on Saladin, do we?

That's why I suggest you delay killing HC (keep him at one last city with one last defender), while we marshall our forces to American land.

You mean you haven't start playing? :eek:

-

@ ChrTh

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

Couple more notes if you have not start playing:

- A settler is being built at one of the newly conquered city to replace Haumanga at the southern tip of the Penisula as namliaM has pointed out. Suggest whipping it now.

- I :smoke:

by switching Thebes to build infrastructure, I think that's where the heroic Epic is. You may want to switch it back to cavalry since we would be conitnuing in military mode if we are attacking Saladin immediately after HC.

eektor · May 29, 2006

Sorry I got caught up watching tv. I'm playing right now though. Writeup will be posted in the morning though.

Cosmichail · May 29, 2006

You're right declaring on Saladin won't involve Cyrus but takes away from getting a PA with Ghandi. You only need 40 turns and will need that to get your infrastructure going again. Banks would be good. Having Ghandi's techs and manpower would be good in a war against Saladin/FDR if that happens.
Getting FDR to declare on HC might not work as he will get DP as soon as the war is over. It will hurt to be at war for such a long duration as WW will start to kick in.

Good Luck...

(of course you can get a PA with Ghandi if he too went to war against Saladin but takes also 40 turns I believe)

ChrTh · May 30, 2006

It takes 40 turns on Normal ... I don't know if it takes longer on Epic (if so, I suspect it would be 60 turns)

eektor · May 30, 2006

I finished the turns last night. Report coming in about an hour.

eektor · May 30, 2006

PreTurn
Gandhi and Roosevelt would not give Education or Constitution to us.
I traded Chemistry for Divine Rights and Banking from Indians.
I traded Chemistry for Printing Press, 40 G, and World Map from the Persians.
I gave Chemistry to Roosevelt for declaring war on HC, some money, and World Map.

Whipped Settler in Tiwanaku.

Throughout the turnset I was building military. Calvary and grenadiers as well as some longbowmen.

In 1622 AD Gandhi built the Statue of Liberty and the battle for Machu Pichu took place.

Battle of Machu Pichu

One casualty, a calvary died.

Battle of the Lost City of the Incans 1631 1634 AD
:lol:

Its too long and hard to pronounce if I wrote the name.

One cat committed suicide. No other losses. One longbowmen left at 0.5, waiting a bit.
Next turn Roosevelt landed troops, so I decided to take it out before we lost the city to the Americans. (Notice the american force that landed in the picture.

The Incans are destroyed.

Roosevelt made a city on our Incan continent. [pissed]

Comments
Ok, I played 8 turns. Next person can play 12 turns. I think we should clear up war weariness and then declare on Saladin.

I have 2 galleons ready (and 2 on the way) to transfer the units on the Incan continent to the American/Arab continent. You might want to take out the Arab city on the island before going to the continent. There are two cavalries on that continent and 1 more and a catapult on the way.

I think I :smoke:

on the tech research. I was thinking replaceable parts to get to rifling. I think I should have just gone sci method or education to get to communism asap. There are 5 turns left on replaceable parts and IIRC Gandhi and Roosevelt have it.

Spoiler :

ChrTh · May 30, 2006

I'm guessing FDR declaring on HC cleared up his DPs?

Don't worry about the FDR city on the (formerly) Incan continent, it'll probably flip (one way or the other) before the game is over.

Let's take a couple days (since we can probably stop for a month and still have only one team catch up to us) to study the save and work on where we want to go from here.

EDIT:
War Weariness should clear up after pressing ENTER.

bobrath · May 30, 2006

Completly dessenting thought here:

Would getting a PA with FDR be totally out of the realm of possibilities? And if we can get FDR to declare on Ghandi... how would that function with our always peace with Ghandi?

BTW, great job on finishing off HC just before FDR got there. Good stuff!

ChrTh · May 30, 2006

bobrath said:
Completly dessenting thought here:

Would getting a PA with FDR be totally out of the realm of possibilities? And if we can get FDR to declare on Ghandi... how would that function with our always peace with Ghandi?

It's not out of the realm of possibilities. If there's a DP and FDR is attacked by Gandhi, I'm guessing the Always Peace prevents us from honoring the DP. If we have a PA, FDR won't be able to go to war with Gandhi -- I think.

SGOTM 01 - V Q

Dark Lord of The Sith

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Dark Lord of The Sith

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Make it so ...

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Dark Lord of The Sith

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Prince

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Emperor

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