SGOTM 01 - V Q

[ChrTh]

@namliaM: Why not just drop off the troops on the farm N of Medina with boats? Even if you start off in Seattle, your boats can have you attacking the next turn (after war is declared) rather than three turns later.

EDIT: Definitely agree with Steel as our next tech.

 

[bobrath]

@ChrTh: Less boats needed for the land based war. You can prestage more units on land then in ships...

 

[ChrTh]

@ChrTh: Less boats needed for the land based war. You can prestage more units on land then in ships...

I'd rather land fewer units than give Sally 2 extra turns to reinforce Medina. And don't we have plenty of boats from the HC excursion? I had at least seven going during my turns. That's 21 troops. And you have to get them there in the first place.

 

[eektor]

Who was thinking what? when we planted El-Amarna??
Wow... Geez... This spot is so much better than where Huamanga was ...

<raises hand> Umm ... at least we get to work stone? Ok my second , at least its better than the other site.

 

[Maquis]

I would take the 230 gold from Saladin and Declare immediatly

I would at least try first to do that, demand the gold from him. I agree with bobrath: Don't give him astronomy (and the ability to land troops on our soil!) if we don't have to...

 

[ChrTh]

If we're going to attack Sally by land, why go North?

If we go South, we'll have hill defense and a river defense while moving to Medina in the same number of turns. In addition, we'll be able to split troops South of the move line if needed for other purposes.

EDIT: The blue line indicates a naval attack from Seattle, which of course isn't specifically necessary (unless you want to protect against Caravels). Also, with the Southern path, we'll be able to see the actual defense of the city a turn earlier, so we may decide to send some of the troops towards another city rather than committing the entire stack to Medina.

 

[namliaM]

<raises hand> Umm ... at least we get to work stone? Ok my second , at least its better than the other site.

Unfortunaly we dont have the food to work the stone

But yes it is slightly better than it was, but it could have been even better.

About the Civics, yes its religions ONLY, but... We need/can despiratly use some banks and stuff on our mainland as well.
And once we can get some Missionaries from HC land to our mainland we 'need'/want to spam some Monastaries as well.

Do we want to spread Hinduism to HC land? For the bonus? And give the extra $$$ kick back to our runaway friendly neighbour?

I do agree offcourse we would need a concentrated effort, meaning some more Cats and possibly a Cav here or there. Then switch to OR and have everything build some banks and Markets. +50% gold is very nice indeed In particular seeing as we are in deep at the moment.

Our double Holy city needs banks and stuff as well.... Tho I think currently it is only getting 15-ish gold peaces of the Shrines?? That needs to be upped
The 3rd shrine is even worse I think.... Spread the word, first and formost to Thebes...

IIRC we have a Great Person comming from Pi Ramesses, dont remember tho what the odds are for what kind of GP...

Edit:
I would go north because of:
1) The mountains shelter us a bit from counters, tho the hills give defensive bonus
2) Having the Catapults end up North of Medina makes them less volnerable (spelling?) to counters if we take the city.

Both routes take 3 turns from Seatle... Offcourse if we can construct a landing party big enough, go for the naval landing. but I ussually dont have that many boats available in my games, I dont much like boats....

 

[eektor]

The other holy city doesn't have a shrine.

I don't think we should give Astronomy to Saladin for the money. Why should we give them the techs to build galleons. Right now all they could build is caravels and galleys so it would be hard for them to take our galleons why give them the chance to build galleons.

 

[ChrTh]

I don't think we should give Astronomy to Saladin for the money. Why should we give them the techs to build galleons. Right now all they could build is caravels and galleys so it would be hard for them to take our galleons why give them the chance to build galleons.

 

[Cosmichail]

Never heard of a Nederlander not liking boats???
As to PA a civ with Communism can approach you as it happened to me in a game I played. (didn't have it was behind in tech)
I agree NamliaM you need some banks. Why not bureaucy too to get capitol pumping out bank/units....then if need points switch back to Vassalage.

 

[bobrath]

Our capital already has the epic to churn units out uber fast. Dunno that Bureacracy will do enough good there to balance out the loss of benefits nationwide from Vassalage.

 

[dot]

I don't think we should give Astronomy to Saladin for the money. Why should we give them the techs to build galleons. Right now all they could build is caravels and galleys so it would be hard for them to take our galleons why give them the chance to build galleons.

I'd also rather take the 'green line' on attacking Medina. But then something crossed my mind: ... Roosy settled on 'your' Incan Island. What will he do if you're taking some of Sally's cities and thereby creating space to settle?

@Cosmichail:
Oops, you made me . Here I am posting comments, been delurking and cheering, but haven't taken one single look at a save ever. I've just been relying on and referring to what the 'players' posted. And then I witnessed this being posted:

I looked at your most recent game 1580ad and I don't know if you noticed but Saladin and FDR have a DP in place.

. . . Since the shock is wearing off ... I figured that I'm quite glad to no longer be the 'only' regular lurker.

Oh, and OMT, why NOT trying to sign a DP with FDR after finishing Sally? Wouldn't that be good if you're not getting the PA with Gandhi and you'd have to win the DiploVic 'alone'? Just asking.

On El-Nara:

 

[GreyFox]

What "On El-Nara"?

- Impatience is a virtue of VQ ...

 

[bobrath]

Remember if you sign a DP with on civ, the rest will have a -1 with you because of it. So we need to be sure if we go signing a DP with FDR that our relationship with Baldy can take the hit.

 

[Cosmichail]

Hey Dot

Oops, you made me . Here I am posting comments, been delurking and cheering, but haven't taken one single look at a save ever. I've just been relying on and referring to what the 'players' posted. And then I witnessed this being posted:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmichail
I looked at your most recent game 1580ad and I don't know if you noticed but Saladin and FDR have a DP in place.

. . . Since the shock is wearing off ... I figured that I'm quite glad to no longer be the 'only' regular lurker.

Enjoy watching and learning new strategies from the players. Would like to play next GOTM and Team VQ are a very good team indeed.

You have provided good advice too though Dot things that the players have overlooked. It's easy for the players to get caught in the heat of things and sometimes overlook little things.

Team VQ are going in the right direction and will be victorious. What I noticed that the Team is small compared to others but players are much more involved in playing regularly than other teams.

GO TEAM VQ GO WOOOOOHOOOO

 

[namliaM]

I dont mind saladin having Astronomy because:
1) He shouldnt get a chance to build more than 1 or 2 galleons, let allone get them to our lands.
2) We want to take his money period. He can use the money to upgrade his units, which is reported to be obseenly cheap for the AI at Monarch.
3) So what if he wastes the production on a galleon, maybe 2. We should be able to undo that production pretty fast like...

From our current point in the game I would say, forget about Gandhi. Go for Domination, take whatever land needed to pull that off. Including Cyrus if need be. By going after Saladin we will probably get atleast a -1 with Cyrus and FDR. When going after FDR, -1 for Gandhi as well...

Gandhi right now is so far ahead in tech, its rediculous. Forget about building the UN I think. Just pick up steel and one or 2 more techs like Rifling and enough techs for Rails to boost a bit more production. That it, Game over, Units Units Units and a Bank/Market/Grocer all over the place to support our growing city upkeep.
If we decide to not research at all anymore, we currently have a surplus of ~230 at 0 science, 0 culture. At an average of 10 GPT upkeep per city, thats 23 cities. We dont need canons for Saladin, dont know about FDR. Rifling would probably be nice as well, if only to counter any Cavs we will encounter from FDR and Cyrus.

 

[bobrath]

You're up now right namliam?

 

[namliaM]

Yes I am up, Dont know if I can play tonight tho, maybe in 10 hours or so after work

Geez... RL...

This morning when I wake up, I realize I hadnt checked on thing... The power Graph...

IMHO Saladin would be easy to take over, then if/when he is done we need mucho reinforcements definatly to take FDR...

Note the steep inclines on FDR and Gandhi? HC isnt even dead yet on that power graph

 

[GreyFox]

The graphs and demographics reflect the status on the previous turn, not the current turn.

So options:

(a) Kill Saladin now
ADV: We have the tech lead, we need the land, and we need to prevent a DP
DISADV: delay PA with Gandhi, possibly losing out more on tech wrt FDR

(b) rebuild and aim for PA with Gandhi
ADV: we get the techs from Gandhi, have a chance to rebuild our economy, easier to go for domination later with Gandhi
DISADV: Possibly FDR and Saladin will enter PA, and Cyrus + FDR a DP, thus harder to win domination

To win domination, I estimate we would have around 27% land after cities come out of revolt. Saladin is approximately 1/3 of our size, so will add around 10%. (pop is not a concern, so I will dsicount it). Cyrus is roughly 1/5 of our size, so will add 6%. So without Gandhi, we need to take out all the remaining 3 civs. With Gandhi, saladin alone may or may not be enough.

To win diplomatically, I think we can throw trrue diplomatic win out of the window. Based on the assumption that nobody will vote for us, we need to grow to domination 67%(?) pop. Without Gandhi, that's almost impossible. With Gandhi, we would command something like 50%. Still not enough. Possible course of action is to take over most of Saladin's cities to have the 67% (?) pop combined with Gandhi.

So, either way, we need to declare on Saladin. The question is whether is it better to it now, or to do it after we enter PA with Gandhi (on the assumption that Sally and Rosy will enter one of their own).

--

I think its stupid to give Astro for a mere 230 gold, putting allowing saladin the galleons tech aside, its outright too cheap. Even at 80% research, 230 gold translate to 1000beakers only. Just extort that gold out of him if you want the money.

 

[Toastedzergling]

Lurker comment: Great game guys, just a reminder, You can't form a permanent alliance if you or your partner is first in score, therefore, a PA is impossible in this game if you are also shooting for a domination win, you'll get "You are too powerful for us" crap