SGOTM 02 - Memphis Blues

[Mad Professor]

On Kyoto's population. I think if we switched to something that allowed population growth, (workboat or archer?) we could grow it to size 6 by the time writing is discovered, despite the unhappies because of the huge food surplus. When we get writing, we could switch straight to library and whip it almost immediately - within a turn or two, if not straight away, giving us those scientists sooner. We might want to then let it grow one size back before going back to the settler so we've got the population for the specialists while still having food for the people!

 

[ShannonCT]

We need to get some copper hooked up absolutley as soon as we can safely get a settler and guards out. We will need metal when barb axmen show up, or the score will get ugly. I agree that sailing might be handy after writing, but I wouldn't delay IW too long either. I want to know where the iron is so we can put a settler by some!

I think the eastern copper is the one to go for. By the way, getting a settler out (if done safely) is also the best form of fog busting. Cultural borders from a city see further than one unit

IW would seem of high priority if we actually find Issy on the continent for two reasons: 1) to deny her any metal and 2) swordsmen make better city raiders. If we are alone on this continent, we're going to need a city that can build galleys. There might be an iron near the coast that would make a better city site than the one by the eastern copper. So it seems that sailing and IW are the next two techs we need after writing.

I guess the build order for Osaka is barracks, 1-2 more archers, settler. We need to have the continent explored before we send out our settler so we know what we're dealing with. Maybe the warrior in Osaka can scout up north now that we have 3 archers around Osaka, and Woody can finish off the SE corner, or vice versa.

Clams by that island north of Kyoto! Mmm. It's really tempting to put a settler on that island by the cows. I agree with ShannonCT though that we want the library ASAP which means we need to let Kyoto grow just a little so we can whip it sooner. Once those scientists come online, it really will crank up research a bit, which we want. With the two fish and two crabs developed by work boats, Kyoto can have an enourmous food surplus which means it recovers very fast from whipping, even with scientists in place.

Right, so we'll have 3 pop in Kyoto after the whip. We should grow it to 4 and then work the two fish and 2 scientists (for a surplus of 4 food). We can continue with the settler since a 5th pop wont be useful until the whip wears off. Then whip a galley if the 1st whip has worn off, the overflow of which can go into the workboat. If the exploring workboat didn't find anything, we'll be able to improve both clams straight away. Clam city can start building a library right away and count on Kyoto to produce everything else it may need (worker, warrior).

 

[ShannonCT]

Just a thought for consideration. If the worker does not have anything else to do for a turn, he could start some chops. That is, chop for a turn or two in a forest, then stop, and go somewhere else. This way, chopping will take less time later when we want it. You could even get a chop down to say 2 turns to go, so that in an emergency, or if we want to rush something later, it's really quick to get those extra hammers.

You'd have to watch you didn't finish the chop though. Careful! You'd also have to watch carefully for bararians and run for the city the instant you saw one. If the worker is not doing anything else though, it's time gained for no loss. If the worker has something else to do (like repairing a mine or something) then it's better to do that.

I think we might as well chop those forests all the way now. We're not using them for defense so they only provide cover for barbs. And chopping will get us the extra defense and the settler faster. I'm open to other suggestions for how to use the forests.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Well done radiopill. I think you made the right decision not to attack the barb on the gems mine. We can't afford to take risks that might jeopardize the safety of Osaka. Now that we have an extra archer we can be a little more agressive, however. Note, that we have one archer who's eligible for a promotion. It could be the cover promotion, which could be very useful for an "archer killer". Can't be long before the first barb archers appear. When they come we should avoid any 50-50 battles archer against archer (thats why we want the promoted "archer killer"). Let the barbs attack our fortified archers - that will give us much better combat odds.

Right now I think we need a plan for our expansion! I guess that moving the Palace is still on the agenda. It's the only way we can keep expanding as far as I can see. We need 4 cities before we can move it. They can be placed in different ways - either one on cow island and one on our continent or two on our continent. The last solution will really put a strain on the economy until the Palace is built, but after that we only have one distant city (Kyoto) with high maintenance. Alternatively we are better off before the move, but maintenance will be the same after moving. That also means that we are in no particular hurry to do the move - we only need it to be in place before we found our 5th city. So what do we do? Research Math while building two settlers, settle two new cities simultaneously on our continent and then chop like mad to move the Palace fast (Maybe using the pre-chop idea by Mad Professor)? Or do we settle on cow island and near the copper, build the Palace at our leisure and go for Code of Law to reduce maintenance in the far away cities? Remember that when we move the Palace we also loose a happy face in Kyoto so those distant cities can only grow to size 4 thus making them both money loosers until we get the courthouses built there.

Would be nice to locate Isabella before making any final decision but I'm not sure we have time for that. If she's near us IW is interesting and if not it can be postponed.

 

[ShannonCT]

Right now I think we need a plan for our expansion! I guess that moving the Palace is still on the agenda. It's the only way we can keep expanding as far as I can see. We need 4 cities before we can move it. They can be placed in different ways - either one on cow island and one on our continent or two on our continent. The last solution will really put a strain on the economy until the Palace is built, but after that we only have one distant city (Kyoto) with high maintenance. Alternatively we are better off before the move, but maintenance will be the same after moving. That also means that we are in no particular hurry to do the move - we only need it to be in place before we found our 5th city. So what do we do? Research Math while building two settlers, settle two new cities simultaneously on our continent and then chop like mad to move the Palace fast (Maybe using the pre-chop idea by Mad Professor)? Or do we settle on cow island and near the copper, build the Palace at our leisure and go for Code of Law to reduce maintenance in the far away cities? Remember that when we move the Palace we also loose a happy face in Kyoto so those distant cities can only grow to size 4 thus making them both money loosers until we get the courthouses built there.

My original idea for getting to 4 cities (as in my practice games) was to build the 3rd city to hook up copper and then capture the 4th (and 5th and 6th...) cities from the nearest rival. Then chop/whip the palace in Osaka. If it's still possible to capture something in the near term, we can wait to build the palace until the war is mostly done (i.e., when we think we've produced enough units to finish off the victim). We can rush the palace while our new cities are in revolt. After that happens, Kyoto and cow city will be money losers for a short while, that is unless we already have either COL or Monarchy. Monarchy will benefit those two cities (and others) before and after we move the capital. Whipping 2 warriors with 1 population gives us as much instant happiness in those cities as we want. Health will become the limiting factor up there, but with +4 health from the food and a lighthouse in those cities, they can become huge. COL only benefits them after we move the capital. And we can get courthouses there instantly by whipping two population. COL could benefit the continental cities before we move the capital but I think we have to concentrate on military there first if we can find a victim. So I would suggest going for monarchy and then COL (so we need mysticism->polytheism->preisthood).

If we can't find a victim on our continent, then what? We will need a coastal city to make galleys or galleons. We might be able to get a coastal iron city in addition to or in place of the proposed copper city. But there's no reason to fill up our continent with cities since we're going for conquest, not domination. Conquest is best acheived by cranking out as much military as possible from a few initial cities, keeping captured cities that can be productive through hammers or food (for whipping), and burning useless cities to cut down on costs.

Would be nice to locate Isabella before making any final decision but I'm not sure we have time for that. If she's near us IW is interesting and if not it can be postponed.

Well, I think we have at least another turnset to scout before settling. To finish the barracks, 1-2 archers, and a settler will take at least 20 turns unless we chop like mad.

 

[KingdomBrunel]

Well done radiopill. I think you made the right decision not to attack the barb on the gems mine. We can't afford to take risks that might jeopardize the safety of Osaka. Now that we have an extra archer we can be a little more agressive, however. Note, that we have one archer who's eligible for a promotion. It could be the cover promotion, which could be very useful for an "archer killer". Can't be long before the first barb archers appear. When they come we should avoid any 50-50 battles archer against archer (thats why we want the promoted "archer killer"). Let the barbs attack our fortified archers - that will give us much better combat odds.

Right now I think we need a plan for our expansion! I guess that moving the Palace is still on the agenda. It's the only way we can keep expanding as far as I can see. We need 4 cities before we can move it. They can be placed in different ways - either one on cow island and one on our continent or two on our continent. The last solution will really put a strain on the economy until the Palace is built, but after that we only have one distant city (Kyoto) with high maintenance. Alternatively we are better off before the move, but maintenance will be the same after moving. That also means that we are in no particular hurry to do the move - we only need it to be in place before we found our 5th city. So what do we do? Research Math while building two settlers, settle two new cities simultaneously on our continent and then chop like mad to move the Palace fast (Maybe using the pre-chop idea by Mad Professor)? Or do we settle on cow island and near the copper, build the Palace at our leisure and go for Code of Law to reduce maintenance in the far away cities? Remember that when we move the Palace we also loose a happy face in Kyoto so those distant cities can only grow to size 4 thus making them both money loosers until we get the courthouses built there.

This looks like a good summary of our choices on how we expand from here. Long term I think we have to be looking at the FP in our distant city, and the potential of two separate empires. However, short-mid-term I think we need more cities. I’m therefore tempted to build a couple of settlers, settle them simultaneously near Osaka, and move our palace. We’d then build up to 8 cities total, get some courthouses, build our FP in Kyoto, and we could then build near Kyoto (basically Fred’s first suggestion).

This does mean that we don’t have a huge need for Sailing yet though, and I agree with Frederiksberg that IW is only needed if we’re not alone. How about Maths, Currency, and CofL then, with IW and possibly Alphabet thrown in somewhere on route. This would leave us in a strong position to head towards Samurai, which I think is a very powerful UU (upgrade of one of the key game units), and probably our key to quick domination. We should be able to trade the other fill in techs we need.

Of course if we find Isabella, and she's weak, things may have to change...

 

[KingdomBrunel]

Well, I think we have at least another turnset to scout before settling. To finish the barracks, 1-2 archers, and a settler will take at least 20 turns unless we chop like mad.

Save the chopping for the palace I think - no point doing it unless there's a good reason.

I may play tonight ~ 5 hours, but more likely is tomorrow night.

 

[Frederiksberg]

My original idea for getting to 4 cities (as in my practice games) was to build the 3rd city to hook up copper and then capture the 4th (and 5th and 6th...) cities from the nearest rival. Then chop/whip the palace in Osaka. If it's still possible to capture something in the near term, we can wait to build the palace until the war is mostly done (i.e., when we think we've produced enough units to finish off the victim). We can rush the palace while our new cities are in revolt. After that happens, Kyoto and cow city will be money losers for a short while, that is unless we already have either COL or Monarchy. Monarchy will benefit those two cities (and others) before and after we move the capital. Whipping 2 warriors with 1 population gives us as much instant happiness in those cities as we want. Health will become the limiting factor up there, but with +4 health from the food and a lighthouse in those cities, they can become huge. COL only benefits them after we move the capital. And we can get courthouses there instantly by whipping two population. COL could benefit the continental cities before we move the capital but I think we have to concentrate on military there first if we can find a victim. So I would suggest going for monarchy and then COL (so we need mysticism->polytheism->preisthood).

I guess that cow city will be able to grow fast enough to pay for itself when we decide to move the palace. Beelining for Monarchy seems like a good idea in that case since it's the only way we can create happyness and allow these (Cow + Kyoto) cities to grow. If we know for sure that we want cow city then we should found it as soon as possible because with the palace in Kyoto it will be a money maker. That actually puts sailing as a much needed tech! So after writing is discovered we would want the path sailing->mysticism->polytheism->priesthood

If we can't find a victim on our continent, then what? We will need a coastal city to make galleys or galleons. We might be able to get a coastal iron city in addition to or in place of the proposed copper city. But there's no reason to fill up our continent with cities since we're going for conquest, not domination. Conquest is best acheived by cranking out as much military as possible from a few initial cities, keeping captured cities that can be productive through hammers or food (for whipping), and burning useless cities to cut down on costs.

In principle I agree and I think with some modifications in the current game. First of all the raging barbs will continue to be a problem as long as we have little cultural influence. Secondly we probably need Astronomy to reach all of the other civs. This makes the tech race important as well and we will need a core of cities around our capital that can produce a lot of beakers.

Well, I think we have at least another turnset to scout before settling. To finish the barracks, 1-2 archers, and a settler will take at least 20 turns unless we chop like mad.

I would like to wait with chopping until we have something urgent we want to build. If we found Cow city and the copper city at the pink spot suggested by BSouder we are in absolutely no hurry with the Palace. We should just coordinate the time of finalizing the Palace and the time when we found our 5th (and may 6th?) city so that they coincide.

 

[ShannonCT]

I guess that cow city will be able to grow fast enough to pay for itself when we decide to move the palace. Beelining for Monarchy seems like a good idea in that case since it's the only way we can create happyness and allow these (Cow + Kyoto) cities to grow. If we know for sure that we want cow city then we should found it as soon as possible because with the palace in Kyoto it will be a money maker. That actually puts sailing as a much needed tech! So after writing is discovered we would want the path sailing->mysticism->polytheism->priesthood

Certainly. We should build Cow/Clam city ASAP to get more science/money with little or no maintenance. The sooner the better. That settler in Kyoto is going to be waiting for a ride until we get sailing. I notice from radiopill's last pair of screenshots that we have 25 gold in the bank. I think we can bleed this down to 0 and speed up writing a little, which will in turn speed up the library and scientists in Kyoto and get us to sailing faster.

In principle I agree and I think with some modifications in the current game. First of all the raging barbs will continue to be a problem as long as we have little cultural influence. Secondly we probably need Astronomy to reach all of the other civs. This makes the tech race important as well and we will need a core of cities around our capital that can produce a lot of beakers.

Without being able to see every part of our continent or things like iron and horses, what sites do you like for this core? We have the desert by the copper. I'm looking at the tile 1S of the western wheat and something near the southeastern sheep. Both are river sites that we could cottage spam and both could be chopped for libraries. Another city 4 or 5 tiles west of Osaka could be good for some spam too and could be a dedicated boat producer.

This looks like a good summary of our choices on how we expand from here. Long term I think we have to be looking at the FP in our distant city, and the potential of two separate empires. However, short-mid-term I think we need more cities. I’m therefore tempted to build a couple of settlers, settle them simultaneously near Osaka, and move our palace. We’d then build up to 8 cities total, get some courthouses, build our FP in Kyoto, and we could then build near Kyoto (basically Fred’s first suggestion).

We're pretty far away from having 8 cities. I hope we dont have to build that many and that we can capture some soon. There's still the unknown about those two unexplored coastal tiles near cow island, but if it turns out that Kyoto is isolated, I'm not sure it makes sense to go for the FP up there with only two cities. There might be another continent where we end up capturing a lot of good cities where the FP makes more sense. With only one other city nearby, I dont know how much additional benefit the FP in Kyoto would have over courthouses. I guess we need to know more about the world.

 

[BSouder]

What if we don't move the palace? Moving the palace wouldn't do any good until we have the 3rd or 4th city near Osaka and by that point we aren't that much away from the Forbidden Palace mark. Why invest hammers to move the palace only to invest more hammers into building the Forbidden Palace where the Palace used to be? Remember, we are ogranized so those courthouses to be able to build the FP are at half price so pretty easily chopped or whipped. This game setup is dominated by the distance from Kyoto to Osaka and that to me just screams "beeline to CoL".

Also, I think we need to discuss a long-term technology plan. I think we need to have a solid tech strategy with a good reason for everything we research to have any shot at the early conquest we are going to need to compete in the race for the laurels. In my mind, not in exact order, our major tech goals are going to be:

- CoL for courthouses and then FP to reduce our maintenance costs.
- Astronomy since I doubt seriously we are going to be able to find all our victims without galleons.
- Ironworking for our UU
- Machinery for our UU
- Civil Service for our UU
- Alphabet to extort techs from our victims
- Construction for Catapults

Other than that list I am not sure that any techs are actually "required". In a normal game I wouldn't have CoL on that list either, but I am afraid without it our science rate would be crippled.

 

[ShannonCT]

Just a thought for consideration. If the worker does not have anything else to do for a turn, he could start some chops. That is, chop for a turn or two in a forest, then stop, and go somewhere else. This way, chopping will take less time later when we want it. You could even get a chop down to say 2 turns to go, so that in an emergency, or if we want to rush something later, it's really quick to get those extra hammers.

You'd have to watch you didn't finish the chop though. Careful! You'd also have to watch carefully for bararians and run for the city the instant you saw one. If the worker is not doing anything else though, it's time gained for no loss. If the worker has something else to do (like repairing a mine or something) then it's better to do that.

It's actually possible to prechop so that there is only one turn left to go. But you have to make sure you have some other unit on that last turn that is awaiting orders. If all your units are fortified, the worker will just complete the order and chop the tree. Since we want most of our units fortified, we could keep the warrior in Kyoto unfortified since he's in no danger. So with this method, you let the worker chop until 2 turns left. Go on to the next turn. It will show 1 turn left. Cancel the chop order as the first thing on this turn. While there, the worker might as well build a road to get back there faster when we want to finish the chop.

 

[ShannonCT]

What if we don't move the palace? Moving the palace wouldn't do any good until we have the 3rd or 4th city near Osaka and by that point we aren't that much away from the Forbidden Palace mark. Why invest hammers to move the palace only to invest more hammers into building the Forbidden Palace where the Palace used to be? Remember, we are ogranized so those courthouses to be able to build the FP are at half price so pretty easily chopped or whipped. This game setup is dominated by the distance from Kyoto to Osaka and that to me just screams "beeline to CoL".

I guess this depends on how fast we can build/capture those last few cities that we need to get 8 total. We could build CHs in our first 4 cities. We would probably want to get our 3rd and 4th cities on the continent at the same time so we could build the 5th and 6th CHs quickly and reduce the painful period. And then be ready with the settlers for the 7th and 8th cities. Then chop the FP in Osaka.

This of course is very much a peaceful growth strategy. It involves tying up production on the continent for 4 settlers, 4 units for garrison, 6 CHs and the FP. If we are alone on the continent, this might be the way to go. If not, the opportunity cost would be a lot of axemen/swordsmen that could be used for conquest.

Also, I think we need to discuss a long-term technology plan. I think we need to have a solid tech strategy with a good reason for everything we research to have any shot at the early conquest we are going to need to compete in the race for the laurels. In my mind, not in exact order, our major tech goals are going to be:

- CoL for courthouses and then FP to reduce our maintenance costs.
- Astronomy since I doubt seriously we are going to be able to find all our victims without galleons.
- Ironworking for our UU
- Machinery for our UU
- Civil Service for our UU
- Alphabet to extort techs from our victims
- Construction for Catapults

Other than that list I am not sure that any techs are actually "required". In a normal game I wouldn't have CoL on that list either, but I am afraid without it our science rate would be crippled.

I would have to add Monarchy, so as to make Kyoto and Cow City some huge science cities. Other basic techs like agriculture and AH will get a lot cheaper as more civs discover them and can be researched or traded for later (yes, you get bonus beakers for each know civ that has already discovered a tech you are researching).

 

[Frederiksberg]

Certainly. We should build Cow/Clam city ASAP to get more science/money with little or no maintenance. The sooner the better. That settler in Kyoto is going to be waiting for a ride until we get sailing. I notice from radiopill's last pair of screenshots that we have 25 gold in the bank. I think we can bleed this down to 0 and speed up writing a little, which will in turn speed up the library and scientists in Kyoto and get us to sailing faster.

We can MM Osaka and work both mines to reduce the number of turns to writing. If we increase science rate to 80% also we could have writing in 8 turns. We could also switch immediately to sailing and research it in 8 turns. That would mean that when the settler is done Kyoto can start working on a galley right away. But this is at the cost of delaying the Library so it might not be the best choice.

Without being able to see every part of our continent or things like iron and horses, what sites do you like for this core? We have the desert by the copper. I'm looking at the tile 1S of the western wheat and something near the southeastern sheep. Both are river sites that we could cottage spam and both could be chopped for libraries. Another city 4 or 5 tiles west of Osaka could be good for some spam too and could be a dedicated boat producer.

The yellow spot looks OK for cottage spam along the river and instead of the blue spot we might consider the spot 1N of the wheat since it will have all "unused" grassland tiles along the river within its fat cross (as well as the wheat and the sheep). Green spot (pink on radiopills map) is neede for other reasons (copper).

We're pretty far away from having 8 cities. I hope we dont have to build that many and that we can capture some soon. There's still the unknown about those two unexplored coastal tiles near cow island, but if it turns out that Kyoto is isolated, I'm not sure it makes sense to go for the FP up there with only two cities. There might be another continent where we end up capturing a lot of good cities where the FP makes more sense. With only one other city nearby, I dont know how much additional benefit the FP in Kyoto would have over courthouses. I guess we need to know more about the world.

I also think it's far to early to speculate where to put the FP. We need more information about the world first.

We shouldn't rule out yet that Isabella could be on the northern part of our continent - we really need to explore this. Maybe we could send "Woody" up there? A dangerous journey but the information is valuable.

 

[BSouder]

This of course is very much a peaceful growth strategy. It involves tying up production on the continent for 4 settlers, 4 units for garrison, 6 CHs and the FP. If we are alone on the continent, this might be the way to go. If not, the opportunity cost would be a lot of axemen/swordsmen that could be used for conquest.

It's not necessarily a peaceful growth strategy. I doubt we'll be founding that many more cites ourselves but rather capturing. Even if we are alone we will just end up capturing barbarian cities instead of another civ's cities. I guess the real question is, for a conquest game do we even plan on having 8+ cities before the game is a foregone conclusion to make the FP worth it? To be honest I am not sure since my own games are normally domination wins rather than conquest.

The point I was trying to make though is that assuming we build the cow city it won't be beneficial to move the palace from Kyoto to Osaka until we have at least 3-4 cities on Osaka's landmass which would put is 2-3 cities short of the threshold of 8 for the FP. The decision then would be, is the hammer investment of building the palace worth it when in X turns (X could be a big variable depending on situation) we could just build the FP instead.

 

[ShannonCT]

It's not necessarily a peaceful growth strategy. I doubt we'll be founding that many more cites ourselves but rather capturing. Even if we are alone we will just end up capturing barbarian cities instead of another civ's cities. I guess the real question is, for a conquest game do we even plan on having 8+ cities before the game is a foregone conclusion to make the FP worth it? To be honest I am not sure since my own games are normally domination wins rather than conquest.

This is a good question. I rarely go for conquest as well. But I have to imagine that since this is not a pangaea type map where you can quickly roll over 6-7 civs, we'll be seeing a lot more productive AI cities that might be worth keeping. But I think we need to burn our fair share too.

The point I was trying to make though is that assuming we build the cow city it won't be beneficial to move the palace from Kyoto to Osaka until we have at least 3-4 cities on Osaka's landmass which would put is 2-3 cities short of the threshold of 8 for the FP. The decision then would be, is the hammer investment of building the palace worth it when in X turns (X could be a big variable depending on situation) we could just build the FP instead.

I think that this is not necessarily true. Kyoto and the Cow City will be able to whip a courthouse immediately and wont be tied down building many other things unless we find more land up there. The cities on the continent are more likely to be tied down with military production, and they wont have as much whippable population. If we have the palace in Osaka, or wherever, any cities built/captured on that continent will get an immediate maintenance reduction and can focus on sustaining any momentum we have in our conquest. The palace costs 60 hammers less than the FP and could be chopped with 5-6 forests (post-mathematics).

 

[ShannonCT]

Looks like another team (Fistful of Dynamite) built Woodhenge. I wouldn't be surprised if it became Barbhenge.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looks like another team (Fistful of Dynamite) built Woodhenge. I wouldn't be surprised if it became Barbhenge.

Judging from the steepness of the culture curves of CFR and Fistfull of Dynamite I'd say they have both founded a religion. If FoD founded Budhism and CFR Hinduism that could explain the difference in culture. Founding a religion increases culture with 5 and you get 2 from the Palace for a total of 7. Building Stonehenge gives 8 for a total of 10 and that doesn't match what I see in the progress chart.
To pull this off they may have delayed settling. That would also secure that Kyoto becomes holy city and gets some extra happyness. Maybe they want to wait for BW and then settle directly on the copper. We can only guess about their strategy. It's going to be interesting to see if Peanut selects a similar strategy.

 

[ShannonCT]

Judging from the steepness of the culture curves of CFR and Fistfull of Dynamite I'd say they have both founded a religion. If FoD founded Budhism and CFR Hinduism that could explain the difference in culture. Founding a religion increases culture with 5 and you get 2 from the Palace for a total of 7. Building Stonehenge gives 8 for a total of 10 and that doesn't match what I see in the progress chart.
To pull this off they may have delayed settling. That would also secure that Kyoto becomes holy city and gets some extra happyness. Maybe they want to wait for BW and then settle directly on the copper. We can only guess about their strategy. It's going to be interesting to see if Peanut selects a similar strategy.

That makes a little more sense. Stonehenge is hard to finish so quickly. Looking at the score graph, I guess CFR settled quite early and FoD settled later. That could explain why CFR took longer to found a religion. If we had founded a religion, I would prefer that the holy city be Osaka where the cultural expansion would be more useful. Speaking of which, it would be very useful to get a library in Osaka for the cultural expansion and the beaucoup science. This might be a good excuse for chopping those three forests.

 

[Frederiksberg]

That makes a little more sense. Stonehenge is hard to finish so quickly. Looking at the score graph, I guess CFR settled quite early and FoD settled later. That could explain why CFR took longer to found a religion. If we had founded a religion, I would prefer that the holy city be Osaka where the cultural expansion would be more useful. Speaking of which, it would be very useful to get a library in Osaka for the cultural expansion and the beaucoup science. This might be a good excuse for chopping those three forests.

I think that chopping a library makes good sense - we should try to make the most of having researched writing early. Having said that I would still prefer that we stick to the plan of hooking copper first. That would mean building 1-2 more archers and a settler. In the meantime I think we should post an archer on the plains hill to the east of Osaka and start building a road from the gems mine through the plains forrest and through the hill. That way Osaka will be immediately connected with the copper city when we found it. Even if we MM Osaka to use both mines it will take us 37 turns to finish barracks, build an archer and build a settler. This means that our worker has plenty of time he could use to pre-chop and build some roads.

Regarding Kyoto I was thinking that it might be better to switch immediately to Sailing. We could have this in 8 turns if we MM Osaka and increase science rate to 80%. This means that the settler will be done at the same time we discover sailing and we can start working on a galley in Kyoto while researching writing and allowing the city to grow to size 6. As soon as writing is researched we switch production to Library and whip it for 3 pops (thats why we need size 6 in Kyoto. Then we allow the galley to be finalized. I don't think we will get the Library much later this way because we need the pop growth, and the galley will surely come faster and thus we will have Cow City faster to support our economy.

 

[Frederiksberg]

That makes a little more sense. Stonehenge is hard to finish so quickly. Looking at the score graph, I guess CFR settled quite early and FoD settled later. That could explain why CFR took longer to found a religion. If we had founded a religion, I would prefer that the holy city be Osaka where the cultural expansion would be more useful. Speaking of which, it would be very useful to get a library in Osaka for the cultural expansion and the beaucoup science. This might be a good excuse for chopping those three forests.

I think that chopping a library makes good sense - we should try to make the most of having researched writing early. Having said that I would still prefer that we stick to the plan of hooking copper first. That would mean building 1-2 more archers and a settler. In the meantime I think we should post an archer on the plains hill to the east of Osaka and start building a road from the gems mine through the plains forrest and through the hill. That way Osaka will be immediately connected with the copper city when we found it. Even if we MM Osaka to use both mines it will take us 37 turns to finish barracks, build an archer and build a settler. This means that our worker has plenty of time he could use to pre-chop and build some roads.

Regarding Kyoto I was thinking that it might be better to switch immediately to Sailing. We could have this in 8 turns if we MM Osaka and increase science rate to 80%. This means that the settler will be done at the same time we discover sailing and we can start working on a galley in Kyoto while researching writing and allowing the city to grow to size 6. As soon as writing is researched we switch production to Library and whip it for 3 pops (thats why we need size 6 in Kyoto. Then we allow the galley to be finalized. I don't think we will get the Library much later this way because we need the pop growth, and the galley will surely come faster and thus we will have Cow City faster to support our economy.