EL_OSO
Warlord
Kodii said:
I agree with this statement here. I would leave the granaries in the queue but at the bottom of it if we have any hammers already dedicated towards their production.
SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I agree with this statement here. I would leave the granaries in the queue but at the bottom of it if we have any hammers already dedicated towards their production.
Compromise
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
Seville and Barcelona have barely any food. They're almost useless to us. Granaries and Courthouses cost the same since we're Organized. I lean toward switching to Courthouses because the saved money in maintenance is probably more valuable than food, especially until we can chop some jungle around them. Then, back to Granaries. Osaka and Tokyo will have to take care of troop production.
Also, I checked the save: Isabella is now down Code of Laws, Currency and Alphabet on us. So, the use of the G Scientist to pop Alphabet wasn't a boneheaded move after all.
(Or at least not an obvious one.)
Also, I checked the save: Isabella is now down Code of Laws, Currency and Alphabet on us. So, the use of the G Scientist to pop Alphabet wasn't a boneheaded move after all.
(Or at least not an obvious one.)
Pre-turn - I gift Seville back to Isabella and switch the 3 granaries to courthouses. Never gifted a city before... EEK!
Seville is undefended at the moment but I need to wait 6 turns before redeclaring war, so she'll probably get a unit to it before I can retake it.
Turn 1 - 85 B.C. - The barbarians are plaguing us still - an archer appears to the North, threatening our worker and an axeman encroaches to the southeast. We need approximately 390 gold before we turn up research on construction - at 152 now.
Turn 2 - 70 B.C. - I need to reshuffle troops a bit to deal with the barbas - lets hope they attack in these positions against bad odds.
Turn 3 - 55 B.C. - Well, neither barb attacks. The archer moves across the river onto the pigs where our cover promoted axe can easily dispatch him (99.2%). We have a shock promoted axe for the other guy... 90.2% chance...
Yes. As planned, I whip the market in Kyoto. I've got an axeman scouting to the south (carefully...) and he spies another source of copper down there.
Turn 4 - 40 B.C. - Kyoto is very unhappy with 2 from whipping now, and so is Edo. Ugh.
Turn 5 - 25 B.C. - NSTR
Turn 6 - 10 B.C. - Zoraster, Ananda born in a FAL. The scout finds the southern coast, including fish, more pigs, and a barbarian city!
Turn 7 - 5 A.D. - The year of the galley invasion - 2 Spanish galleys appear on the weat coast, up to no good, and another in the west with a settler on board. And, to top it off, a barbarian galley is floating around to the south!
Turn 8 - 20 A.D. - I move the worker to the rice without realizing that we don't have agriculture yet (maybe I need to pay a little more attention). One of my scouting axes spies a decent site with sheep and horses to the south. Our peace treaty with Isabella expires, and Seville is still undefended and razeable, but I figure we'll just wait until it's time to really go after her before we redeclare.
Turn 9 - 35 A.D. - THe chop comes in in Tokyo, completing the courthouse and the remainder set to go into the granary.
Turn 10 - 50 A.D. - And that's about it. Both Kyoto and Edo could be whipped next turn (both are set to grow) They are both very unhappy but there's not much to be done. Once we reach 390 gold turn research back on - by the time we get construction our courthouses should be done and we can build the catapults to go after Izzy again. Have fun!
Seville is undefended at the moment but I need to wait 6 turns before redeclaring war, so she'll probably get a unit to it before I can retake it.
Turn 1 - 85 B.C. - The barbarians are plaguing us still - an archer appears to the North, threatening our worker and an axeman encroaches to the southeast. We need approximately 390 gold before we turn up research on construction - at 152 now.
Turn 2 - 70 B.C. - I need to reshuffle troops a bit to deal with the barbas - lets hope they attack in these positions against bad odds.
Turn 3 - 55 B.C. - Well, neither barb attacks. The archer moves across the river onto the pigs where our cover promoted axe can easily dispatch him (99.2%). We have a shock promoted axe for the other guy... 90.2% chance...
Yes. As planned, I whip the market in Kyoto. I've got an axeman scouting to the south (carefully...) and he spies another source of copper down there.
Turn 4 - 40 B.C. - Kyoto is very unhappy with 2 from whipping now, and so is Edo. Ugh.
Turn 5 - 25 B.C. - NSTR
Turn 6 - 10 B.C. - Zoraster, Ananda born in a FAL. The scout finds the southern coast, including fish, more pigs, and a barbarian city!
Turn 7 - 5 A.D. - The year of the galley invasion - 2 Spanish galleys appear on the weat coast, up to no good, and another in the west with a settler on board. And, to top it off, a barbarian galley is floating around to the south!
Turn 8 - 20 A.D. - I move the worker to the rice without realizing that we don't have agriculture yet (maybe I need to pay a little more attention). One of my scouting axes spies a decent site with sheep and horses to the south. Our peace treaty with Isabella expires, and Seville is still undefended and razeable, but I figure we'll just wait until it's time to really go after her before we redeclare.
Turn 9 - 35 A.D. - THe chop comes in in Tokyo, completing the courthouse and the remainder set to go into the granary.
Turn 10 - 50 A.D. - And that's about it. Both Kyoto and Edo could be whipped next turn (both are set to grow) They are both very unhappy but there's not much to be done. Once we reach 390 gold turn research back on - by the time we get construction our courthouses should be done and we can build the catapults to go after Izzy again. Have fun!
On a completely random note, I called in to say I agreed with Compromise about the Courthouse construction over that of Granaries. But, as I loaded the posting page, Snap gave his report.
So, I will wait patiently, but count this as my "got it" post.
So, I will wait patiently, but count this as my "got it" post.
EL_OSO
Warlord
Zalson said:
This means I'm on deck!
Finally, I am able to grab the save from the GOTM server. So, therefore, ergo, etc. I play it. My goals for this turnset were simple- get to 390 gold to start research into Construction. Once the courthouses finish, build some axes to go and stop on Izzy. The next person should be able to build Catapults.
Overall it was a very uneventful turnset. At least for us...
First off, I rotated between the cities. All looked good, especially the whip anger in Edo and Kyoto (it mostly comes as a result of NO happiness resources). I planned on not whipping Kyoto during this turnset, as there wasn't much of stuff to build.
However, if we so with, we could have Kyoto shoot up like a weed, build an aqueduct, and then whip out the hanging gardens. This, however, would require that we settle stone island.
Also, I disbanded the now useless worker in Edo. I had hoped it would have cut our costs a little, but it of course didn't
65- Nabu-rimanni is born in a distant land. Osaka grows. I shuffled around our axes, and assembled a stack in Bar(th)elona. It's not going anywhere yet. Also, I moved the XP 16 axe so that he could double-move (if this were MP) to take Seville.
80- Osaka finishes it's courthouse... I think I started an axe, bypassing the granary. It's large enough now that it still has -7 in maintenence cots! Nabu-rimanni did a lot of thinking, and someone else now has Taoism. I think I whacked a warrior, too, on this turn.
95-Chang-Tzu is born, and to celebrate this momentous occasion for another Civ, I set research to 100%! Hurrah!
We also get a decent look at Numidian, for the first time:
It's got a sheep and a farm (now), in addition to a lighthouse and a barracks. There's also a fish on the otherside, and a cottage (which I toasted). We got 75% odds to attack, so I though we might as well play it cool, and rape and pillage.
110- Seville grows to size 2, we whack a barb archer, and I see this little expedition in the south.
Set axe on "Follow-enemy-that's-at-peace-now" mode. Failing to find that, I resign myself to manually moving that axe.
125- Going back on an earlier strategy, I whip Edo for 3 points. It was working a normal citizen specialist, so I figured it'd be better to work a scientist specialist once it gets over this whippin' anger.
140- Edo now uses some of it's left over bodies to begin building a courthouse, so that there won't be any more of those travesties against human nature. NOT! The real reason? There's about nothing else useful to do there.
155- I chopped a forest earlier to help Tokyo along to a granary (it was in the way of an eventual irrigation path) and the overflow is enough to complete a lighthouse in one turn! Now that's what I call... well, I don't know what I call it. But it will help Tokyo grow.
170- Seville completed an archer. Dang.
185- Barb Axe #1 appears on the scene, in an attempt to stop the Mission Chase-Down-Izzy-and-SLAUGHTER-HER-SETTLER. To celebrate this sedition, Izzy and a friend get two great people born (she got a priest, the unknown other enemy got a Socrates).
200-And, of course, we lose at 90.1% odds, on defense. Goodbye C2/Shock Axe.
Construction in 2. Axes in Osaka and Tokyo. Take out that barbarian-inciting meanie.
Overall it was a very uneventful turnset. At least for us...
First off, I rotated between the cities. All looked good, especially the whip anger in Edo and Kyoto (it mostly comes as a result of NO happiness resources). I planned on not whipping Kyoto during this turnset, as there wasn't much of stuff to build.
However, if we so with, we could have Kyoto shoot up like a weed, build an aqueduct, and then whip out the hanging gardens. This, however, would require that we settle stone island.
Also, I disbanded the now useless worker in Edo. I had hoped it would have cut our costs a little, but it of course didn't
65- Nabu-rimanni is born in a distant land. Osaka grows. I shuffled around our axes, and assembled a stack in Bar(th)elona. It's not going anywhere yet. Also, I moved the XP 16 axe so that he could double-move (if this were MP) to take Seville.
80- Osaka finishes it's courthouse... I think I started an axe, bypassing the granary. It's large enough now that it still has -7 in maintenence cots! Nabu-rimanni did a lot of thinking, and someone else now has Taoism. I think I whacked a warrior, too, on this turn.
95-Chang-Tzu is born, and to celebrate this momentous occasion for another Civ, I set research to 100%! Hurrah!
We also get a decent look at Numidian, for the first time:
It's got a sheep and a farm (now), in addition to a lighthouse and a barracks. There's also a fish on the otherside, and a cottage (which I toasted). We got 75% odds to attack, so I though we might as well play it cool, and rape and pillage.
110- Seville grows to size 2, we whack a barb archer, and I see this little expedition in the south.
Set axe on "Follow-enemy-that's-at-peace-now" mode. Failing to find that, I resign myself to manually moving that axe.
125- Going back on an earlier strategy, I whip Edo for 3 points. It was working a normal citizen specialist, so I figured it'd be better to work a scientist specialist once it gets over this whippin' anger.
140- Edo now uses some of it's left over bodies to begin building a courthouse, so that there won't be any more of those travesties against human nature. NOT! The real reason? There's about nothing else useful to do there.
155- I chopped a forest earlier to help Tokyo along to a granary (it was in the way of an eventual irrigation path) and the overflow is enough to complete a lighthouse in one turn! Now that's what I call... well, I don't know what I call it. But it will help Tokyo grow.
170- Seville completed an archer. Dang.
185- Barb Axe #1 appears on the scene, in an attempt to stop the Mission Chase-Down-Izzy-and-SLAUGHTER-HER-SETTLER. To celebrate this sedition, Izzy and a friend get two great people born (she got a priest, the unknown other enemy got a Socrates).
200-And, of course, we lose at 90.1% odds, on defense. Goodbye C2/Shock Axe.
Construction in 2. Axes in Osaka and Tokyo. Take out that barbarian-inciting meanie.
Kodii
Ka ICE
Looks good. Shucks on losing that axe. I guess Oso is up, and our captain is on deck. Almost two whole rotations! 
Compromise
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
We should have a little contest where we guess what it will take to conquer Madrid. Lowest number of hammers without being too few wins. I'm thinking we'll want 4 cats with extra collateral promotions. After down to 0%, suicide all of them and let...6 Axes finish it off in one turn?
If both Kyoto and Edo have nothing to do, I think they could both run scientist specialists to generate great scientists.
Looking forward to owning Madrid!
If both Kyoto and Edo have nothing to do, I think they could both run scientist specialists to generate great scientists.
Looking forward to owning Madrid!
EL_OSO
Warlord
Got the save. I'll look at it after dinner and hopefully have it posted tonight. It sounds like I'll be doing mostly war prep so it should go fairly quick.
EL_OSO
Warlord
Well I didn't run into too many speed bumps this turn set. I killed a few barbs without losing any of our units which is always a good thing. 3 techs were researched and courthouses are built in almost all the cities. Also we have 4 catapults with another on the way.
200 - Turn received. The only thing I did before hitting end turn was to turn two citizens into scientists in Edo. I figured it was a good idea and it turns out it really helped our research efforts.
215 - Found our mysterious spanish galley:
230 - Construction discovered. Set research to Agriculture. We had enough funds to research it in 2 turns at -7 gpt. I figured why not give that worker near the rice something to do... I started moving our additional axe down in the anticipation of capturing Numidian when this popped into view:
I immediately promoted our axe to combat 1 + shock and took this guy out. Oh yeah, I started cats in Osaka and Tokyo.
245 - Buddha spread to Osaka. I declined the option to convert. One of the barb archers popped out of Numidian and attacked our axe there. We won the battle.
260 - Agriculture discovered. Started on Iron Working as we need to get Optics and thats on the way. It would also benefit us to find iron as well. I noticed that we need about 160 gold to research at 100% in 5 turns. One turn at zero and then pump it up to 100%.
Bad news is that the galley landed the archer and a settler seen in this view:
275 - First cat done and sent to Barcelona.
290 - 2nd cat done and sent to Barcelona. Hurried the courthouse in Kyoto as the happy penalty for whipping disappeared. Queued up an Aqueduct.
305 - More barbs appear as seen below:
I had a cat going in Osaka but switched to an axe the previous turn when I spotted the axe barb. The forest chop finished it for us. I also moved the axemen from Tokyo towards Osaka just in case....
320 - Hurrry the courthouse in Barcelona. Started on a Granary. The barb axe impaled himself on our shock promoted axe on the gold mine just south of Osaka. One of the axes that I brought over took care of the archer on our hamlet.
335 - Izzy pays us a visit and tells me to convert to Buddha. I told her to shove it.
Iron working was discovered. WE HAVE IRON!!!! I had moved the workers around Tokyo to start irrigation near the river but changed my mind as soon as I saw one of our hills outside of Osaka with an iron source. They are on go-to orders. There is already a mine there so we only need a road. Its on the hill just south of the rice.
EDIT: I started researching Metal Casting at 0%
The save is here.
200 - Turn received. The only thing I did before hitting end turn was to turn two citizens into scientists in Edo. I figured it was a good idea and it turns out it really helped our research efforts.
215 - Found our mysterious spanish galley:
230 - Construction discovered. Set research to Agriculture. We had enough funds to research it in 2 turns at -7 gpt. I figured why not give that worker near the rice something to do... I started moving our additional axe down in the anticipation of capturing Numidian when this popped into view:
I immediately promoted our axe to combat 1 + shock and took this guy out. Oh yeah, I started cats in Osaka and Tokyo.
245 - Buddha spread to Osaka. I declined the option to convert. One of the barb archers popped out of Numidian and attacked our axe there. We won the battle.
260 - Agriculture discovered. Started on Iron Working as we need to get Optics and thats on the way. It would also benefit us to find iron as well. I noticed that we need about 160 gold to research at 100% in 5 turns. One turn at zero and then pump it up to 100%.
Bad news is that the galley landed the archer and a settler seen in this view:
275 - First cat done and sent to Barcelona.
290 - 2nd cat done and sent to Barcelona. Hurried the courthouse in Kyoto as the happy penalty for whipping disappeared. Queued up an Aqueduct.
305 - More barbs appear as seen below:
I had a cat going in Osaka but switched to an axe the previous turn when I spotted the axe barb. The forest chop finished it for us. I also moved the axemen from Tokyo towards Osaka just in case....
320 - Hurrry the courthouse in Barcelona. Started on a Granary. The barb axe impaled himself on our shock promoted axe on the gold mine just south of Osaka. One of the axes that I brought over took care of the archer on our hamlet.
335 - Izzy pays us a visit and tells me to convert to Buddha. I told her to shove it.
Iron working was discovered. WE HAVE IRON!!!!
I had moved the workers around Tokyo to start irrigation near the river but changed my mind as soon as I saw one of our hills outside of Osaka with an iron source. They are on go-to orders. There is already a mine there so we only need a road. Its on the hill just south of the rice.EDIT: I started researching Metal Casting at 0%
The save is here.
regoarrarr
King
So I'm up right - anyone want to whip up a summary post for what we're doing, or any other comments / questions?
:whip:
Cats (5) and Axes (5, for a nice even 10; how much more do swords cost, because she doesn't have copper, does she?) to kill Izzy.
Then probably heading to Compass and Optics to find whoever else is out there.
Any other ideas?
Cats (5) and Axes (5, for a nice even 10; how much more do swords cost, because she doesn't have copper, does she?) to kill Izzy.
Then probably heading to Compass and Optics to find whoever else is out there.
Any other ideas?
EL_OSO
Warlord
I would also concentrate on getting Optics ASAP at this point. We already have 4 cats in Barcelona. A fifth one is being produced in Tokyo. It's up to you if you want to wait for it to be finished or to commence hostilities immediately.
That last city Izzy settled is on a hill. Might need an extra axe there for insurance on taking it. It does have an iron source in its immediate radius, however there isn't any workers there just yet.
I think Madrid should be the high priority city in our struggle. It is her best city and without it, she'll be ineffective while we mop up the rest of them.
I was also thinking that this continent is a pretty decent size and it might be worth it to move our capital here. I'm not up to speed on the effect of the FP in relation to the effectiveness of the capital pertaining to maintenance costs. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.
If we can get religion into Kyoto/Edo, those two cities could be a prime source of GP points as the food levels are high. They just have happiness problems.
That last city Izzy settled is on a hill. Might need an extra axe there for insurance on taking it. It does have an iron source in its immediate radius, however there isn't any workers there just yet.
I think Madrid should be the high priority city in our struggle. It is her best city and without it, she'll be ineffective while we mop up the rest of them.
I was also thinking that this continent is a pretty decent size and it might be worth it to move our capital here. I'm not up to speed on the effect of the FP in relation to the effectiveness of the capital pertaining to maintenance costs. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.
If we can get religion into Kyoto/Edo, those two cities could be a prime source of GP points as the food levels are high. They just have happiness problems.
Compromise
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
Zalson said:
Actually, I'm sure she hooked up her Copper again as soon as she knocked off the Axeman I had up there guarding it. Good luck in taking Madrid, we might need more than 5 axes, but I'm not sure.
regoarrarr
King
I'm not going to get to this tonight - probably will play tomorrow or if not, ask for a swap
regoarrarr
King
Pregame check. Cities look good. I will probably whip the aqueduct in Kyoto in 10 turns. Actually let's think about this. 450 hammers for the Gah-dens. Plus double speed whips once we get the stone. Each whip will be 90 hammers on Epic, so we'll need a whip of 5 population, which will require that we get to a total population of 10, which will be tough to do, since citizens 6 and up will be grouches. Plus it will require that we lose some of our scientists, which are the fuels of our research. I'm going to whip it now, so we can get started on the Gahdens. Edo will build a settler once it finishes the courthouse next turn.
I also notice that Osaka is working the oasis instead of a village at a loss of 2 cpt. Remedy that. Hit enter
(1) 365 AD: Aqueduct in Kyoto. It starts the Hanging Gardens, only 220 turns to completion! Edo starts a settler due in 14, at the loss of one of its scientists.
One of the big questions is how many of these axes do I take up towards Madrid. I end up continuing to use most of the ones that are already hanging out in our lands on barb duty, counting on the garrison at Barcelona to handle the job.
(2) 380 AD: Moving into position
(3) 395 AD: War! (huh). First off, I check the power graph. We're above Izzy, so I demand her 50 gold. She gives it to me, then I sound the war trumpets! Iron is hooked up. 2 axes go towards Seville, while the rest of the stack heads north to Madrid.
(4) 400 AD: zzzzzzz
(5) 425 AD: 2 Axes in place at Seville. First one dies at 60% odds, the other one mops it up. I raze it and we pick up 68 gold. Spot a Spanish galley off the east coast with 2 chariots. That's right Izzy, you don't want those pesky chariots in Madrid. She also moves a CG1 Archer to guard the deer. He is whacked flawlessly at 86% odds. I take the spearman out of the stack to guard against those chariots. Get a view at Madrid. 60% defense, 4 archers a spear and 2 chariots.
(6) 440 AD: Moving.
(7) 455 AD: Bombard Madrid from 60 to 24%. The 2 chariots land right outside Barcelona. Luckily my spearman is right outside the gates. He has 98% odds to kill one of them, even in a jungle (though I guess they don't get defensive bonii). So I figure it should be plenty to stop them if I fortify in the city (and there aren't any improvements to pillage really...) With all our axes,
(8) 470 AD: Sword->Sword in Tokyo. One of the chariots dies and the other one moves to pillage the road I guess. Izzy moves 2 CG archers out of Madrid. Probably to reinforce one of her other cities. I have 86% odds to take them, but I'd rather focus on Madrid rather than risk losing HPs on these archers that don't matter.
(9) 485 AD: Madrid's defenses down to 0% We have 4 cats and 4 axes. I notice it was founded on stone! It does have a settler here, so I wonder how I can get that settler to leave. The chariot does pillage the road.
And.... I'm going to stop here for some input. It's turn 9, but whoever is after me can just play 11 to even it out.
If we decide on an attack on Madrid, all 8 units have movement left. Madrid has 0% defense, 3 CG2 archers, 1 CG1 archer, a spear and 2 chariots. I think I lean towards making the attack. Major reason is that there aren't really any reinforcements in the area. I might see if we could lure her to taking that settler and 2 of those archers out of Madrid into the open.
I spent a few turns at 0% but have spent the last several at 100%. Metal Casting would be due in 5, though we only have enough coins for 1 more turn @ 100%
Settler in 6 turns @ Edo. Santiago and Toledo have some units heading their way for some more beatdown. I have one of our axes off on exploring the territory. There's another iron source down there.
I also notice that Osaka is working the oasis instead of a village at a loss of 2 cpt. Remedy that. Hit enter
(1) 365 AD: Aqueduct in Kyoto. It starts the Hanging Gardens, only 220 turns to completion!
Edo starts a settler due in 14, at the loss of one of its scientists. One of the big questions is how many of these axes do I take up towards Madrid. I end up continuing to use most of the ones that are already hanging out in our lands on barb duty, counting on the garrison at Barcelona to handle the job.
(2) 380 AD: Moving into position
(3) 395 AD: War! (huh). First off, I check the power graph. We're above Izzy, so I demand her 50 gold. She gives it to me, then I sound the war trumpets! Iron is hooked up. 2 axes go towards Seville, while the rest of the stack heads north to Madrid.
(4) 400 AD: zzzzzzz
(5) 425 AD: 2 Axes in place at Seville. First one dies at 60% odds, the other one mops it up. I raze it and we pick up 68 gold. Spot a Spanish galley off the east coast with 2 chariots. That's right Izzy, you don't want those pesky chariots in Madrid. She also moves a CG1 Archer to guard the deer. He is whacked flawlessly at 86% odds. I take the spearman out of the stack to guard against those chariots. Get a view at Madrid. 60% defense, 4 archers a spear and 2 chariots.
(6) 440 AD: Moving.
(7) 455 AD: Bombard Madrid from 60 to 24%. The 2 chariots land right outside Barcelona. Luckily my spearman is right outside the gates. He has 98% odds to kill one of them, even in a jungle (though I guess they don't get defensive bonii). So I figure it should be plenty to stop them if I fortify in the city (and there aren't any improvements to pillage really...) With all our axes,
(8) 470 AD: Sword->Sword in Tokyo. One of the chariots dies and the other one moves to pillage the road I guess. Izzy moves 2 CG archers out of Madrid. Probably to reinforce one of her other cities. I have 86% odds to take them, but I'd rather focus on Madrid rather than risk losing HPs on these archers that don't matter.
(9) 485 AD: Madrid's defenses down to 0% We have 4 cats and 4 axes. I notice it was founded on stone! It does have a settler here, so I wonder how I can get that settler to leave. The chariot does pillage the road.
And.... I'm going to stop here for some input. It's turn 9, but whoever is after me can just play 11 to even it out.
If we decide on an attack on Madrid, all 8 units have movement left. Madrid has 0% defense, 3 CG2 archers, 1 CG1 archer, a spear and 2 chariots. I think I lean towards making the attack. Major reason is that there aren't really any reinforcements in the area. I might see if we could lure her to taking that settler and 2 of those archers out of Madrid into the open.
I spent a few turns at 0% but have spent the last several at 100%. Metal Casting would be due in 5, though we only have enough coins for 1 more turn @ 100%
Settler in 6 turns @ Edo. Santiago and Toledo have some units heading their way for some more beatdown. I have one of our axes off on exploring the territory. There's another iron source down there.
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