SGOTM 02 - VQ Black

pigswill · Aug 22, 2006

Had a look at the save. Couple of things occur to me. We need to explore more, there's a galley lying idle at Kyoto so maybe send it off to Mao country.
Our economy is currently tanked. After polishing off Bella I think it's time to put some sets into home improvements: couple more cities down south, several more workers, get them cottages up and running, milk them shrines coz otherwise we won't be invading anyone for a long time.

bobrath · Aug 22, 2006

I used that galley to ferry cats between islands for the happy from garrison bonus. But yeah, now that we are not at war with Mansa we could use it for exploring the western bay.

More cities down south may not help our economy all that much. Remember we're hurting on maint costs. But yes, cottages and other city improvements are much needed.

Re the Great Prophet - its too bad a captured great person doesn't become a worker. That one popped out just before I intended to cap the city. Ah well.

pigswill · Aug 22, 2006

Respectfully disagree re south cities. Once we've got Hokkiado to ourselves we can then develop; low distance maintenance from Osaka will certainly help; organised means cheap courthouses to reduce city maintenance. Serious maintenance costs come from BT cities, most of which is distance cost.

bobrath · Aug 22, 2006

Makes sense Pigswill. I'm just worried about the per city cost rather then the distance maint. We up the cost on the BT cities (3x) with each new city on Hakkido.

namliaM said:
Question: What Specialist, under what circumstances would offer to put beakers into Optics/Astronomy??? I would look myself, but dont have the time at the moment

Taking out the techs we already have or can't research right now (only on memory):
Great Scientist:
Education
Printing Press
Optics
Paper
Astronomy

Basically it means a GS would lightbulb Optics for us right now, but then would lightbulb Paper which then means he'll lightbulb Education and Printing Press before finally coming to Astronomy (assuming we don't research some other techs that open up other paths).

The others have longer paths, so I don't think they're reasonable.

Great Engineer:
Engineering
Feudalism
Guilds
Gunpowder
Chemistry
Optics

Great Artist:
Drama
Music
Monarchy
Divine Right
Theology
Nationalism
Printing Press
Liberalism
Education
Military Tradition
Astronomy

and I may have taken something out on the GE/GA that shouldn't be. You can find the link to that information on the first page of this thread (my fourth post I think).

The full paths (up to Astron/optics):
GS

Spoiler :

GA

Spoiler :

GE

Spoiler :

Cosmichail · Aug 22, 2006

bobrath --> Just played
namliaM --> UP
Cosmichail --> on deck
Pigswill -->
LuvtoBuild -->
Eektor -->

Just one more city and Izzy is finished. But that galley with the two settlers might offer a bit of grief. Looks like we can take Madrid in the next turnset but I haven't looked at the save yet. I am wondering have we built a market yet in Osaka? Probably not with all that warring so maybe do that soon after we finish Izzy. If our GNP is bad maybe we should think about trying to get to Guilds/banking for added wealth. It seems to me we need to focus on infrastructure. That would take us away from Astronomy which we need but even if we had it couldn't get an large enough army together until we improve our wealth. Maybe some aggressive trading might bring us closer to our goal. I suspect it won't be long and Philosophy will be discovered by one of those AI's and we won't have that to trade anymore. I also think our wealth will improve once Barcelona comes out of revolt. Maybe we can keep going on Astronomy if we start building missionaries and shipping them to the other continents. (I guess we can get to Mao by galley but once we get optics can get to the other continent with missionary)

Cosmichail · Aug 22, 2006

Just looked at the save and a couple of things:
Cordoba could work a cottage tile. We would just loose one hammer.

Kagoshima is a real drain on our economy but once we have optics that should change.

Osaka is not working one gem mine and once it grows (in 1 turn) work it again and should improve wealth/science.

Once we do finish off Izzy/finish market maybe get Osaka to loose some production by working rice to get some growth fast. I did notice that not one of our founded cities has cottages. We should think about getting some workers (and capture a few from Izzy) as we will need lots for Barcelona which should be spammed with cottages/ and Seville likewise.

Once we have enough Courthouses building the FP in Kyoto would help but I get the feeling NamliaM just wants to build cats there. The BT is where we have the biggest drain on our economy so FP would help a lot.

namliaM · Aug 22, 2006

bobrath said:
Taking out the techs we already have or can't research right now (only on memory):
Great Scientist:
Education
Printing Press
Optics
Paper
Astronomy

The others have longer paths, so I don't think they're reasonable.

OK Throw that plan out the window

Cosmichail said:
namliaM --> UP

Got it, hopefully play before bed-time (got home early-ish today

)

Cosmichail said:
Once we have enough Courthouses building the FP in Kyoto would help but I get the feeling NamliaM just wants to build cats there. The BT is where we have the biggest drain on our economy so FP would help a lot.

Spamming cats will help us greatly in taking over some AI (Mansa or Hatty) pretty quickly once we have some land based ops we can build the FP there I think... or still build it in BT someplace...

pigswill · Aug 22, 2006

FP once available should cost the same to build as 5 cats; 5 suicide cats will gain us probably two cities, maybe three; FP should save at least 10gpt distance maintenance on bermuda triangle.

bobrath · Aug 22, 2006

I would agree that BT is pretty centrally located for any cities we choose to keep. Remember that only conquest victories count even tho all victory types are enabled, so we will need to be mindful of not keeping so many cities that we trigger the domination win.

namliaM · Aug 22, 2006

So I didnt get to play...

Sorry... Something came up..

I will try and play in the morning, else tomorrow evening... So march on madrid and trade around Philo?
If we trade around Philo we could just pick up enough gold (and tech parity) to do 100% burn on Optics. Whip a caravel or 2 and get Circumvention...

bobrath · Aug 22, 2006

Sounds like a plan to me. We've got a slight jump start on the circumnavigation, but not for much longer. Mao and Hatty have about a 5 turn head start on us (since I saw our first caravel in the BT).

namliaM · Aug 23, 2006

Before pressing enter I trade around Philo for the worlds money and some techs... (which we dont really need but heck)

I allmost decide to make peace with Bella, because she has 110 gold. Which would allow us to run 100% longer... but NAH, lets kill her...
Later I find I forgot to MM Osaka

costing us a bit of beakers ...

Because bella desides that it is smart to launch a counter attack on Barcalona using 3 units (Axe, spear and ?? I forget ??), on the turn that Madrid hits 0% defence.....

We destroy Madrid and add a worker to our complement

Not many workers... So madrid starts one right away. (Once it gets out of revolt...)

As we discover Optics I line up 2 Caravels (to be whipped) in Barcalona and Cordoba? (ex-spanish city we captured first...)
a few turns later the caravels are heading out and are on their way.... I havent had any message yet about someone getting Circumvention.

We lost some fogbusters down south :mad:

and we have some barbs comming in again, so I started a Samurai in Tokyo....
By "accident" I pressed Enter 1 to many times

Spoiler Session Log :

We have to whip BT hard and often, more often than to ware off the whip penalty.... If we whip a catapult at the right time (as I posted earlier) we can build 2 cats in 10 turns I think. Running an Engineer in the meanwhile.
that is +2 happyness... because we are in HR.
We just need a Granary, Courthouse, Lighthouse and offcourse Forge in place. And :whipped:

Get those Cats out ASAP, Oh... maybe we should whip a Catapult and overflow into an archer right about now... Archers are considerably cheaper and we need quite a few of those as well... More :whipped:

If we time it just right, we can build the Archer from just the whip overflow

... Which means a whip is -1 penalty and +2 happy :goodjob:

Preverably I think we want to keep both Edo and Kyoto at a size where they run (atleast) an engineer or a scientist... But whip those Catapults

namliaM · Aug 23, 2006

I didnt finish the turn, I barely started it

The save

In Kyoto we are allready reaching the Health cap, which is why I started an Harbor. Whip this ASAP (or NOW even) then get back to Catapults and archers.

Just due SE of Osaka there are some Swords and a Spear with a goto to Tokyo, you may want to change that

At the moment we have 6 catapults... I know with overwhipping in a while when we start warring and all those catapults are out in the field... We will have 3 useless cities... Yeah so??? Who cares??? They produce near nothing anyway... The sooner we can field the catapults the sooner we can start (mass) building Samurais on the mainland => Quicker conquest.

52 turns on Astronomy, which we can sustain (at 40% and + 8gpt).
43 turns @50% and -6gpt which we can do for only 7-8 turns.
With cities just comming out of revolt and war loot comming up, that should drop research time to ~40 turns?

pigswill · Aug 23, 2006

Nice set of turns namliaM. Finished off spain and circumnav bonus.
If we don't have whale boats yet they're worth getting for BT3 (kagamoshi?). Maybe build FP in BT3 (yes, I know I'm obsessing). Time to finish off barb city and settle south; more workers, cottages for wealth (eventually). Phase One (conquering Hokkiado) almost complete. Time to think a bit more about Phase Two.

eektor · Aug 23, 2006

Although we want some cottages to keep our economy going, we need to work on making the cities on Hokkiado production powerhouses that can churn units out really quickly.

bobrath · Aug 23, 2006

I noticed this in the turnlog:

Turn 248, 1148 AD: You have discovered Calendar!

How did that happen?

bobrath · Aug 23, 2006

Looks like the fight to take out Izzy's last city was farm more damaging the I expected. Tons of losses. Add that to the fog busting archers going down and :rant:

AH well, lets wipe out the barb city and get the fog totally busted. I don't want to have to worry about covering our workers as they get our economy crunching OR about losing turns when barbs cut off our iron supply.

bobrath -->
namliaM --> Just played
Cosmichail --> UP
Pigswill --> on deck
LuvtoBuild -->
Eektor -->

And lets try to hit 10 turns a piece from here on out (unless everyone wants to keep it at 15).

namliaM · Aug 23, 2006

bobrath said:
I noticed this in the turnlog:

How did that happen?

Hmz, I have a screeny... Appearently didnt post it... Traded it from Poor old Kublai

The poor guy, he is so far behind in techs... I thought he could use the boost :lol:

eektor said:
Although we want some cottages to keep our economy going, we need to work on making the cities on Hokkiado production powerhouses that can churn units out really quickly.

YES, we can live mostly of the conquest ... Lets get 1 city ONLY with some cottages. The rest gets Farms and later (guilds i think) we can add Workshops.
Tho the WHIP is a powerfull production tool

bobrath · Aug 23, 2006

(Feels like I'm talking to myself now...)

eektor said:
Although we want some cottages to keep our economy going, we need to work on making the cities on Hokkiado production powerhouses that can churn units out really quickly.

If we make Hokkiado a production powerhouse.... why are we worried about using the BT islands to support a landing? Seems like we'd be better served by keeping Hokkiado concentrated on supporting (via science and income) our nation. Yes there will be some sites on Hokkiado that will be production heavy, but trying to make them all that at the expense of growing cottages seems very short sited to me.

namliaM · Aug 23, 2006

bobrath said:
Looks like the fight to take out Izzy's last city was farm more damaging the I expected. Tons of losses. Add that to the fog busting archers going down and :rant:

AH well, lets wipe out the barb city and get the fog totally busted. I don't want to have to worry about covering our workers as they get our economy crunching OR about losing turns when barbs cut off our iron supply.

And lets try to hit 10 turns a piece from here on out (unless everyone wants to keep it at 15).

I think we lost mostly Catapults at the gates of madrid, but it was a big stack with a CD2 (IIRC) archer on top.

Was I supposed to play ten also? Ooops :blush:

I do agree about Settling get settlers out asap, I thought about peace to allow Bella to settle that roaming settler.... but ... yeah you know...

@Cosmichail: remember to bring your :whipped:

SGOTM 02 - VQ Black

fly (one day)

Emperor

fly (one day)

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

fly (one day)

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Deity

fly (one day)

Prince

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Deity

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