SGOTM 02 - VQ Black

Cosmichail · Aug 18, 2006

Hail Pigswill,

Yep let's war and forget those wonders as they just slow things down for our warring Toku. The brother's peeved now that he took the palace away.

I still like getting monarchy though would solve a lot of happiness problems for all cities. I don't think it would hurt to trade away COL but let's see what the other civs have but I have had it happen that something could be traded and like two turns later you can't because they got it from someone else.

bobrath · Aug 18, 2006

so just a small laundry list there (from both of you!).... jeesh

Cosmichail · Aug 18, 2006

Yeah you're right Bob. Should have given him the grocery list too. Now that would have completed all the house chores.

LuvToBuild · Aug 19, 2006

Pre-Turn
I looked around one last time and made a couple of decisions before starting. I contacted Bismarck and haggled with him a bit to see what I could get. Monarchy seemed to be the best choice. namliaM mentioned he thought Izzy had spearmen so he's probably right about HA's not being as good as axes, swords, and cats. Horseback Riding was also less beakers than Monarchy so it made more sense to get as many beakers for CoL as we could. Not to mention of course that Hereditary Rule is key for getting the happy cap up in Kyoto and allowing it to grow quickly, either for specialists or for whipping. So I took Monarchy and debated about revolting. I held off at first because I wasn't sure I wanted to lose a turn on TGL. Then I decided I wasn't sure I wanted to wait around for the TGL to complete before revolting so I went ahead and went to HR. I realized I didn't get OB with Bismarck so I went back and got that before going ahead. I moved our galleys into his waters with the plan of sending them in opposite directions and trying to scout as much as possible during my turns. I got 20 :gold:

from Bismarck in addition to Monarchy so I used that along with our existing 8 :gold:

to bump research up to 80%. I pushed it to 100% but it wouldn't get Construction any quicker and we couldn't afford it anyway so I left it at 80%.

Turn 1
One galley from Kyoto moves south in German waters. The other galley just gets into German waters. The wounded axemen and swordsmen near Osaka move into Osaka on their way to link up with the other two swordsmen and the medic spearman. One worker in Osaka starts a chop on the plains forest and the other worker moves to the grasslands forest west of Osaka for a chop. I decided to whip the archer in Osaka and get our happy cap to 6. I put a scout in the queue to catch the small amount of overflow. I plan to let them work on that until the happy cap maxs and then switch to a settler for the stone city.

Turn 2
We meet Hatty, the founder of Judaism. She doesn't seem to want to deal fairly. I kept haggling, getting upset and walking away, coming back and debating, and finally settled on getting Currency, Agriculture, and 10 :gold:

from her for CoL and Alphabet. It was a crap deal and she could have at least thrown in Pottery. I was afraid if I passed up the chance to trade her CoL, she would end up getting it from Bismarck and our tech would be worthless then. I hated to give her Alphabet but it appeared that Bismarck has it already so I figured he would hand that to her soon enough. She is Friendly with Bismarck and he is Pleased with her. I also signed OB with Hatty to open her up for scouting later. I assigned two citizens in Kyoto to finish the scout quicker. I put a settler in the queue. Our axeman in Tokyo is finished. I move him north to Osaka. I started an archer in Tokyo.

Turn 3
We meet Mansa Musa. He seems to be a tech leader but he is behind Hatty and Bismarck scorewise. Our only trade options were CS and Lit. I figured we didn't want to trade those away just yet so I didn't bother with any tech deals. I did sign OB. Izzy gets serious now, sort of. She moves a chariot our way and a spearman our way. I'm glad I have a healthy axeman and spearman to counter.

Turn 4
The spearman moves onto our sheep in Osaka. I counter with the axeman and gain enough XP for a second promotion. I haven't given him any promotions yet to allow for some flexibility in the future. Izzy moves the chariot to threaten our worker by the river. I counter with the medic spearman and win. The workers are safe and Izzy fails to accomplish anything. The pop in Edo grows to 5 and we get an unhappy citizen. I was expecting to whip the Library since I was 1 pop away from a whip. I guess it needs to grow to 6 before 3 will be available for whipping. There were two citizens assigned. I put them out to grow quicker and get another pop for whipping the library. Construction is finished. We have most of what we wanted already from trading so I set us to get Pottery since its only two turns. I hope to get farms and cottages in Osaka soon, provided Izzy doesn't get too serious yet.

Turn 5
Finish chop of plains forest for TGL. Osaka goes unhealthy due to loss of forest in BFC. I wasn't thinking about that. We have 3 food in storage and we're losing 1 food per turn. TGL in 2 turns so I leave the shortage as it is for now. To correct it would require moving from the plains hill mine and adding a turn to TGL. I'd really hate to miss it by one turn so that's why I decide to leave the food shortage for now. An archer is complete in Tokyo. I give him CGI and fortify him in Tokyo. I start on a cat next. It looks like they are going to cost us 60 hammers, not 40.

Turn 6
A barb axeman approaches Tokyo from the southwest. We have an archer nearby with CmbtI and Shock so I move him to try and intercept. I don't think the archer could attack but hopefully the barb axeman will attack him in the woods and lose. We meet Kublai Khan and Huayna. Kublai and Huayna are Annoyed at us already. I've apparently been trading with Kublai's worst enemy. I think it's Hatty but I'm not sure. He doesn't seem to be real buddy buddy with anybody right now. That galley is racking up some contacts quick. It would appear that namliaM might be on to something. It's starting to look like everybody's been hiding in the shadows just beyond Kyoto all this time. I'm not quite sure yet just where everybody is exactly though. A lot of contacts have been from running into other people's galleys. Pottery finished so I started on Metal Casting. Huayna has it but won't trade it because he doesn't like us much. I had to drop science back down to 70%. Our extra funds had finally run dry. We are breaking even at 70%. Our scout is done in Kyoto. I had the second galley pull back to Kyoto a turn or so back so that he could be loaded and ready to move out next turn. I start on the settler in Kyoto. Citizens are sent back out to sea. He will be complete in 9 turns.

Turn 7
TGL is built in Osaka. The barb axeman attacked our archer with CmbtI and shock while they were in forest. The @#$ still managed to take them out. Luckily he's hurting. I move the unpromoted archer in Tokyo out to greet the barbies. The medic spearman finishes healing from his fight with Izzy's chariot. She hasn't sent anything else our way so I move towards Cordoba. I had to drop down to 60%. Moving towards Cordoba bumped up the unit supply cost I guess. Bismarck is scouting out Kyoto so getting stone island is probably a higher priority now. The settler will be done in 8 turns.

Turn 8
The barb archer attacks the unpromoted archer and loses. Mansa Musa comes knocking, thinking we should just give him CS for nothing. I tell him to take a hike. I see what he has to offer. He doesn't even want to trade Feudalism for CS, even though CS is more expensive. I wouldn't have anyway just because we probably need to hold onto CS as long as we can. We get a cat in Osaka from overflow on the TGL. The last chop wasn't really needed but it was already in progress and gave us a cat to send towards Cordoba. I have another cat going in Osaka and one building in Tokyo. Huayna and Bismarck have declared war on Mansa Musa. Bismarck and Huayna appear to be sort of buddy buddy. I suspect Hatty will get involved courtesy of Bismarck soon enough.

Turn 9
The catapult from Osaka links up with the army advancing on Cordoba. Our galley that stumbled upon Kublai and then Huayna has turned back towards Kyoto. They couldn't go any further after running into Kublai's borders. Our scout has been unloaded in Bismarck's land. I move the galley to scout the northeastern coastline. The other galley will return to Kyoto and prepare to move the settler to found the stone island city before Bismarck beats us there. I see Bismarck has a settler in Dortmund just chomping at the bit for the galley to finish scouting and return to pick him up.

Turn 10
Izzy has two chariots in a galley approaching the bay near Osaka. Our second catapult in Osaka finishes from additional overflow. I started to build another cat but saw the chariots and opted to build a spearman instead since the one we have is off to help the army take Cordoba. I have the unpromoted axeman available and he's guarding the sheep. It would be nice to send them to the bottom before they can unload but we have no galley's over there yet. Our scout explores a ridgeline into German territory. It appears Hatty is east of Bismarck. I can tell more in the next turn or so. Bismarck is bringing his scouting galley back to German waters. I'm guessing he'll be looking to load that settler. Our's will complete in Kyoto in 5 turns. I think we will be ok. Unfortunately, I won't have a protector to send with him unless I take one from Kyoto. That would leave Kyoto unhappy. I might be able to build an archer in stone city pretty quickly though.

Turn 11
Surprisingly, Izzy seems to think her chariots are marines. She attacks the axeman on the sheep straight from her galley without landing first. I was worried they might take him out at first since he didn't yet have any promotions. Luckily, he prevails against both of them. I'm sure glad this wasn't Warlords now. I move him into Osaka to heal. Our army continues to advance towards Cordoba. Tokyo completes a cat. I decided to build another one since we probably can't have too many cats in taking out Izzy. Mansa Musa wants us to join him in a crusade against the Incan. I decline since he is annoyed at us anyway and I don't want to tick Bismarck off just yet.

Turn 12
Bismarck wants us to join him against the Malinese. I agonized a bit over whether or not to declare a new war. Our relations with Bismarck were dead even at +1 and -1. I figured we didn't want to tick him off if we are going to use him to gain access to the new mainland and do some scouting, possibly even conduct a war. So it looks like Mansa will be our first target if he's still around. Hatty wants CS for free. Buncha @#$ free loading AI's. Must be the aggressive setting.

Turn 13
Izzy had a galley in Toledo and managed to suddenly sneak an axeman and chariot onto the sheep. At first I couldn't figure out where they came from then I remembered them having been in Toledo the turn before with a galley there. I managed to take them out but probably in the wrong order. The spearman finished in Osaka the same turn. The axeman was still healing up. I sent a cat against them to soften them up. I hated to but I didn't want to lose the sheep if I could help it. That gave the spearman better odds. I promoted the spearman to CmbtII and he had 80+ against the axeman. I went for it and managed to pull it off. I gave the axeman CmbtII and sent him against the chariot. He managed to pull off a win too.

The army stood outside Cordoba and noticed it was really vulnerable despite its 50% defense. It had an archer, a spearman, and a chariot. I looked at my resources and figured I could take it without even bothering to bombard defenses. I suicided the cat into the city and weakened the defenders. The archer was so weakened that the spearman became the next best defender. I sent the axeman after him and won. I then sent the spearman after the chariot and won. That left the badly beaten archer. I finished him off with a weaker swordsman to get him a promotion. We now control Cordoba. Izzy refuses to talk so no peace deal yet.

Turn 14
I move into Cordoba to secure the city. I have an archer that was protecting the border northeast of Tokyo move up to garrison Cordoba. Izzy switched to Hinduism but still refuses to talk. I guess she hasn't had enough yet so it's on to Toledo next.

Turn 15
Our archer garrisons Cordoba. I leave some healing units behind. A cat is moving back into our borders with the intent to move on Toledo next. Our three best swordsmen at full strength move out of Cordoba and back to our borders to move on Toledo. An axeman and cat will finish in Osaka and Tokyo next turn. We will have Metal Casting in two turns. We might want to pick up Monotheism next just so we can try and trade for Theology. I never grabbed Philosophy with the GS because I didn't want to have the AI keep begging me for it and taking a hit each time I refused. We still have CS on most of them and that has had them begging too.

Here's what we know of the new mainland so far.

Here is the Latest Save

Here's the official turn log:

Spoiler :

Here's the updated roster:

bobrath -- Black Leader on deck
namliaM --
Cosmichail -->
Pigswill -->
LuvtoBuild -->just played
Eektor --> UP

pigswill · Aug 19, 2006

An eventful set of turns. Our islands remain safe until astronomy. Well worth considering a religion change either to judaism (keep Bis and Haty happy) or NSR; hinduism sure ain't helping much. Exploring egypt could well be useful, see how far osakaland is from their east coast.
Overall I'd say priority is still to wipe out spain and colonise rest of island while heading towards samurai then astronomy.
Edit: slightly radical but is it worth building/whipping a settler in Cordoba to help bust fog in the south? We can improve health by farming rice or wheat (or both).

namliaM · Aug 19, 2006

Wow nice set, find any iron yet? We want to be whipping some Samurais

Next up Toledo and Barca? Skipping good for nothing jungle ridden Seville, going after madrid?

Any idea what happened to that settler?

LuvToBuild · Aug 19, 2006

Yeah, I forgot to mention Judaism spread to Osaka towards the end of my turns. Good point about switching to Judaism. I never really thought about it at the time since I was busy taking Cordoba and trying to get my turns wrapped up. The settler from Kyoto is on the galley right beside stone island, waiting to unload the next turn. He doesn't have a defender yet. I didn't really want to take one from Kyoto and have it go unhappy. I figured it wouldn't take too long to build one on stone island.

In hindsight I might should have just started heading northwest along the road to Barcelona. I had Toledo on my mind because I was looking to raze it and have her begging for mercy. Its all kind of dependent on whether you guys want to keep pressing her or let Cordoba get strengthened, build some more offensive units, and then reengage. Continuing to press her might be best, in which case Barcelona should probably be the next target.

It appears that I might have missed some rearranging by the governor in Osaka. I think Izzy landed those troops on the sheep and I missed putting a citizen back on them. I also had to move from the plains hill to the flood plains to avoid starvation but with the flood plains farm, a miner could probably be assigned again.

There is some iron next to our scout in Egyptian territory. Some more near Timbuktu. I got distracted and forgot to whip the Library in Edo. I think we'll end up with an unhappy citizen still even after whipping due to whipping unhappiness. I guess we could get an archer in there soon.

Kyoto may be growing too quickly now, unless we want it to just grow like crazy and then whip in the granary. A forge in Kyoto might not hurt for running an engineer and getting some hammers, plus the bonus.

bobrath · Aug 19, 2006

Some great turns there. They revealed an interesting map layout to be certain. Its great that we got judaism spread to us. It will help in the relations - but again, remember that these are aggresive AIs. We're going to need to always be prepared for war with them - so as soon as any of the AIs research Astronomy, the trio of islands need to pump out the defenders (esp cow island which doesn't have the advantage of a forced amphibious landing). Dare I say it... put a fort down on the cows when Astronomy comes in?

I'll be looking forward to seeing eektor's 15 turns. We'll move to 10 turns in the next set as it looks like the coming centuries will be very active!

Cosmichail · Aug 19, 2006

Good stuff LuvtoBuild. Taking Cordoba was a great move and finishing off the TGL will now allow us to get our military happening. Looks like we found all the AI's too. Nice trades too now our happy cap is way up and we can grow, grow. Once we get rice hooked up in Osaka we should consider (once it grows) putting another scientist there and building a couple of cottages on the floodplains. Just love that Osaka and once we get to Madrid will be nice too.

namliaM · Aug 19, 2006

LuvToBuild said:
whip the Library in Edo....get an archer in there soon.

Archers are pretty expensive (token) defenders Warriors can do the same (add 1

) and are cheaper. Furthermore well we need an archer or 2 but mostly cats.... 1 archer to every 3 cats, something like that...

Kyoto may be growing too quickly now, unless we want it to just grow like crazy and then whip in the granary. A forge in Kyoto might not hurt for running an engineer and getting some hammers, plus the bonus.

Forge is great even just for the whip bonus. If you whip something for just over 45 hammers we will get 90! which will help with Cat production big time

And we can whip a lot, even into heavy unhappyness.... as long as we can feed em .... + we can safe up for a big whip (Forge + Colossus?), just whip a cat and overflow into colossus...

Just love that Osaka and once we get to Madrid will be nice too.

Yep cities like Osaka are rare...
If we can whip a lot of cats on BT and start warring on the AI while still building a lot of Markets + Grocers on FKaS which will support our upgrades (if we get that far).
After the grocers we can start on quite a few Samurais... While we beeline for Astronomy (anyone have a realistic estimation?) and really rush to conquest.... What is an optimum path to take towards Astro? I think Astro is available right after Optics, is it not. Just that its like 40 or so turns ...

Edit: Couple of questions/remarks after looking at the save...
Q1) Why do we have a spear with a Formation promotion? Spears allready have a natural 100% bonus vs Horses... I think it a bit overdone unless one is expecting the spear to face Knights.
1a) And why a medic Axe? I think a CR on the Axe and the medic on the spear is more usefull combo?
Q2) We have now the control over the holy city of Confusionalism. We may want to revolt to it for spying on cities (of spain) that have that religion.
Q3) Teching: Head over to Machinery => Optics to get the circumvention? I dont know the tech situation on that.

R1) Dont put overflow into buildings in Kyoto, Edo and Nara... Allways into units/cats. We can use big 2/3 pop to whip the buildings and controle the pop a bit, while we want to build units/cats.

Cosmichail · Aug 19, 2006

Just looked at the save and observed a few things.

LTB mentioned this already (due to attack by Bella) but we need to work sheep in Osaka. I see we are building farms on FP but I think we should at least put one cottage there although we could continue with farms and build cottages on plains river sites.

Our science is suffering a bit now but hey that's war for ya. I notice too that Kyoto could easily support two scientists and we should do it if we want Astronomy quicker.

Right now here's the facts on Astronomy: (just the facts)
Compass 11-->Machinery-->22-->Optics 19 and astronomy a whopping 63 turns. (now I think this would get us there but might be wrong.) I clicked on astronomy as research and it put up calender to research so we must need that. So that's a whopping 105 turns and with calender 113. Adding scientist in Kyoto will knock some turns off that and some aggressive trading will too.

Another option is:
Paper 11-->Education-->57-->Liberalism-->44 and slingshot to Astro. But we have the Bismarck who tends to go for that so this is risky if we want to continue on war path.

We need to get a couple of scientist in Osaka too which will really help things along and with farms on floodplains and rice will help Osaka grow to it's max fast which is 11. Although health there isn't good. (I was hoping we'd leave a plains forest for that reason) With rice/wheat hooked up we should be much better off.

Izzy has a +8 brothers with us and -6 war relationship -1 borders so in fact she has a +1 with us. She does have some techs we want so maybe still try to extort with a PT wait the 10 turns and then finish her off. We should get whatever techs we can since our science has dropped off somewhat.

As NamliaM mentioned too we need markets/grocers on the mainland to bring our science up again. Guilds would be nice too but if we want astronomy fast we have to skip those techs and try to trade for guilds/banking etc.

EDIT: LTB may have mentioned this (yes I did read all your wonderful posts) HC/Bismarck are both at war with MM so we will get a better relationship with HC too not that it matters. Kublai doesn't like MM much either so it wouldn't take much for him to go to war with MM. The sooner MM is gone and the others kept busy warring the more likely we can get liberalism if that's the route we want to go.

As to the promotions I personally tend to go for combat a lot as once you get into another age it offers more flexibility. Nothing worse than having cover when there are no archers around anymore but I don't think we will get that far. We can do several things to meet our variant. Build a huge army (once we get astronomy some 100 turns away but with trading added science will change somewhat) and start wiping out all the civs on that other continent. Those jungle cities will be a pain and would rather see us settle in the south to take advantage of the land there. Like NamliaM said we could just take Barcelona and then head straight for Madrid and leave her crappy Seville for extortion and then after 10 turns declare war and raze and finish her off.

pigswill · Aug 19, 2006

Atsronomy looks like a long way away but that's based on current economy. I think we need optics as a precursor so we'd have to research it, and it would definitely be worth getting scumnav bonus if possible. Get osakaland to ourselves and start developing economy and research times will come down significantly. Relying on Bismark's cooperation to mount an invasion from Kyoto before astronomy may be optimistic but cats are rarely wasted (sacrificed maybe but not wasted).

Cosmichail · Aug 19, 2006

Optics is a prerequisite for it. There is still a lot of dark matter on the map and probably other lands maybe but doubt any more AI's.

So after MC-->machinery-->compass-->optics

We should try to trade for calender (I know we don't want it but when I checked to see what we need for Astro Calender popped up so maybe wait until later when we will need it)

I also realize the liberalism path will take longer than posted above since we will need the above techs too so disregard the liberalism path for astronomy.

LuvToBuild · Aug 19, 2006

Yeah cottages would have probably been better on the floodplains. I was thinking farms at the time due to losing food in Osaka from the forest chop. Getting a granary there and the rice hooked up would help with that, as would getting an Aqueduct in there. At the moment though, military is a priority until we get peace with Izzy or finish her off.

I think we should consider going for Machinery after Metal Casting. That would allow us to build our Samurai instead of swordsman and those would go a long way towards finishing Izzy off. After some promotions fighting Izzy, we can get them to the new mainland and start kicking butt. It also gives us crossbowmen which we could use instead of archers as cover for catapults. We can pick up Compass and Optics after Machinery. Leave Calendar till we absolutely need it as the prereq for Astronomy. No reason to obsolete SH before we really need to. We could probably pick up Calendar from an AI fairly cheap anyway.

I'm not sure what order you guys want to go in but if we use Judaism to smooth relations, then Bismarck and Hatty should probably be last. Unfortunately, they are the top two so helping them in wars against the others might put us further behind. It might have been better if we had Christianity or Buddhism. We could use Kublai and the weaker civs against the stronger civs, then finish off the weaker civs much more easily.

@namliaM: The promotions for the axeman and spearman were based on what I felt like I needed at the time to defend against Izzy's seaborne incursions. I only had those two defenders since most everyone else had departed for Cordoba. I wanted the spearman to take out chariots with little or no damage so he do it all over again the next turn if need be. I wanted the axeman to be healing quicker and I felt like he would be a good cover unit later. They might not have been the best choices long term but those are what I went with at the time based on the current unit strengths and what they were facing. I would probably have done as you suggest normally since I usually do make spearmen medics and I usually give axemen Combat promotions as cover for a stack.

namliaM · Aug 19, 2006

Cosmichail said:
So after MC-->machinery-->compass-->optics

We MAY want to purposely delay machinery a bit. WHY? Archers upgrade to Crossbows right? Crossbows actually make halfway decent attackers... Archers we can currently whip/build in the BT, Crossbows we cannot for the current lack of Iron. We have to get Compass anyway to get to Optics, so we could research Compass while we whip some archers.
Or can we keep building archers after discovering Machinery, Come to think of it I think we can... because we cannot build/whip LBs.

We should try to trade for calender (I know we don't want it but when I checked to see what we need for Astro Calender popped up so maybe wait until later when we will need it)

I think we want to fill FKaS to the max before we disable Stonehedge.

I also realize the liberalism path will take longer than posted above since we will need the above techs too so disregard the liberalism path for astronomy.

Yep Beeline is allways shortest... tho I dont know if its the best... How much would a warrior => Samurai upgrade be? Cause we can really stockpile Warriors in BT, while earning money for upgrades....
All we basicaly need are Archers and Cats to conquer 1 AI on the mainland. Then transform the land to max production and conquer the rest... with Samurais hopefully... If we can capture the Pyramids while we are at it, we can BUY our way to conquest from the money we earn of razing cities. Once we have 12 or so cats promoted with city bombard stuff and 10 or so Samurais, we are there... but for the execution...

TOP thing on my agenda is getting to 10 (+) cats and 5 or so archers/LBs and start conquering some AI on the mainland. The sooner we have a firm grip the sooner we can conquer...
Preverably that would be the AI due NW of Bismark. This would make the cities
1) closer to our capitol, thus lower in maintenance to keep
2) Easy to get reinforcements from FKaS once we get to Astronomy.

The land (for now) looks like a circel form or wedge ... If it is a circel... we are far from round and I sure hope that is land for atleast 1 more AI or one AI will have a lot of land....

Edit:
Oh BTW, please whip Forges ASAP in the BT as well as some harbors to get the health bonus. Then after that NEVER whip anything under 45 hammers (or multiple like 90) and/or over 56 hammers (or multiple like 112)
This means NEVER whip an Archer anymore allways build it during the 15 turn wait to ware the whip off.
Catapults are 60 hammers, put atleast 4 max 14 hammers in before the whip.
Buildings we just put 1 turn in and whip for the max number of pop to control the populous of the cities a little. Those cities (Kyoto and Edo in particular, Nara a little less) should be growing like weeds despite the frequent whipping.
We can keep the units in the cities for now to allow for higher pop. Health beeing the current limit tho... (Grocer? Aquaduct?)

pigswill · Aug 19, 2006

We have iron waiting to be mined south of Satsuma so we can have iron whenever we need it. We need to map out as much of continent as possible then basically start one end and work all the way through (remembering not to acquire so much territory that we pass domination limit before conquest); long term stuff.
Shorter term stuff is exploring, beelining optics (samurai as a bonus

), while polishing off Bella and settling south osakaland; that should keep us busy for a while, not forgetting the occasional techtrade.

Cosmichail · Aug 19, 2006

Pigswill,

I think you misunderstood the iron thing. We have it in Osaka already. Where we need it is in BT. (just to clarify Bermuda Triangle is Kyoto/Edo/Nara and FKas is Formerly known as Spain.) Machinery is like 22 turns. We need some tweaking for more science, but I would prefer to get Machinery too to ease our taking out Izzy. Who knows what we will accomplish with trading or extortion. I noticed Eektor posted "got it" in VQ08 and thought he might do the same here too. Hopefully he will post later.

namliaM · Aug 19, 2006

pigswill said:
osakaland

I still like FKaS better

pigswill · Aug 19, 2006

Cosmichael:thanks for clarification. I must pay more attention. I like BT but not so keen on FKaS, settle for Hokkaido.

Cosmichail · Aug 19, 2006

NamliaM

I read that whipping thing like 3 times and well next I play will have to have it written down as it won't absorb. You really got that down pat and haven't used whipping much overall. If we had theocracy those cats could have 2X city raider from the start. According to your battleplan we would have to go after Hatty? She's bad for building lots of cities and small military. I always like going after the strongest first and those cities would provide the necessary launching platform for the rest. If we do so we will get a negative from the good ole Bismarck. (only -1) If we switch to Judaism he might be a good boy though.

EDIT: I like Hokkaido (something to do with WWII Russians/Americans that sparked my interest)

SGOTM 02 - VQ Black

Dark Lord of The Sith

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Prince

fly (one day)

Deity

Prince

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Dark Lord of The Sith

fly (one day)

Dark Lord of The Sith

Prince

Deity

fly (one day)

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

fly (one day)

Dark Lord of The Sith

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