I believe it takes a TON of gold to convince an AI to give you a tech...I've never been able to buy any tech from an AI. Sometimes they'll take a tech and a lot of gold, but rarely will they actually sell you a tech for just money.
If you hover the pointer over the bar in the city screen that shows the nationality of a city, I believe it tells you what % chance there is of a revolt that turn. Stationing troops in a city will lower the chance of revolt, the more the better.
Also, I believe Alex will leave us alone as we are stronger than him, and Mao should as long as we continue building up our military.
4. Lodestone complete sword (for Sparta), Poprush worker(1 pop only), use worker to chop forrest (for elephant) then transport to Coppertownski. Chop south Forrest (see 5. below) Then more troops.
5. Finish (?sword) in Coppertownski start Aquaduct>Hanging gardens. Use forrest chop to help (see 4. above) Simon@ I calculate 24turns for Hanging gardens 150H for aqua, 450 for HG. At 25H per turn 24turns less 45 hammers from Chop.
I'm not that keen on those forest chops. If you work the forest on Lodestone you'll get the elephant in 7 turns anyway. Chopping the forest by Coppertownski will reduce our hammers by two. Maybe it's worth it for HG but you'll have to rework your calculations as you'll only get 20 Hammers from Coppertownski after the chop (The existing 25 includes 3 hammers overflow).
EDIT: Bear in mind that once we get the stone hooked up by Moscow you'll get double speed for HG. My calculations show 18 turns for Aqueduct & HG without chopping but including double speed for HG.
I could never buy a tech for gold from an AI, too. Sometimes the AI accepts a tech plus thousands of gold.
I am against chopping the forest at Coppertownski. It is our main production city and we should not reduce the hammers there.
On Lodestone City we could chop the forest on the hill, but I usually do not chop forests for units if it is not really necessary. In our situation I would not do it and save that hammers for a building. Maybe the forge in Lodestone is worth chopping that forest, but in anyway I would not chop the forest on the grassland that is currently assigned to Lodestone City.
I agree with Sam and Thrallia that we should build hanging gardens asap for the great engineer points. I also agree with Sam and Mark that we should not chop forests to build units unless there's a dire emergency, and we should not chop the forest in Cski in any event. I also think at this point we should avoid poprushing units - confine poprushing to our infrastructure. If the working assumption is that we're going to take out Alex sometime, but not immediately, then I think we should slowly build our units by adding catapults and a couple of elephants, but only do it as fast as is consistent with building our infrastructure.
Tech trading: My experience is it's quite hard to get the AI to give you techs directly in return for gold. Where the gold comes in very useful is in inducing an AI to swap techs where the value of the tech by itself isn't quite enough for the swap. For example if we have a tech that's worth 800 and the AI has something worth 700: On monarch, the AI probably won't agree to swap (even though ours is worth more, that's probably not enough more to overcome the monarch-level AI reluctance to trade techs.) But if we can offer the 800 tech AND 150 gold, that may be enough. That's why I'd like to sell a couple of our techs cheaply, even though we're doing it to hostile civs. The hostile civs will probably pick up those techs soon from someone else anyway if we don't sell them to them, and the couple of hundred gold could easily swing the balance to get us a few additional techs from friendly AIs. And ditto that's why I'd like to hold our science on 0% for a few turns if we have a tech we may be able to trade by throwing in gold. 50 or 100 gold might sound small, but it can easily swing us an extra tech or two.
I don't believe there's any negative impact from suggesting trades that aren't quite good enough (I recall in Civ3 there seemed to be, but I've never noticed it in Civ4).
@Sam: Good point about the culture slider. OK I'm happy with drama next then start the mass-media beeline as Mark suggests.
I am noticing a lot of changes in our strategy going from quick war to eliminate Alex to no war build infrastructue. Don't trade with unfreindly AIs to give it away for a little gold. My 2 cents:
Nah, the overall strategy is still the same (at least in my mind). It's just the immediate tactics that are different . As far as I'm concerned, the reason I'm thinking more peaceful tactics than I was a couple of turnsets ago is that we now have enough happiness resources for our cities to grow a bit, lots of potential tiles to work cottages on and rather obviously not enough infrastructure to take advantage of that, I'm also worried about our unit maintenance costs, and our situation regarding Mao and Alex has changed: Alex is small and backwards and will be available to take out any time, while Mao now has longbows which means taking any of his cities for the time being is going to be difficult (and possibly best done after he declares war on us rather than the other way round )
I'm sure as soon as those our situation changes I'll be back in warmongering mode
I'm not that keen on those forest chops. If you work the forest on Lodestone you'll get the elephant in 7 turns anyway. Chopping the forest by Coppertownski will reduce our hammers by two.
Maybe it's worth it for HG but you'll have to rework your calculations as you'll only get 20 Hammers from Coppertownski after the chop (The existing 25 includes 3 hammers overflow).
EDIT: Bear in mind that once we get the stone hooked up by Moscow you'll get double speed for HG. My calculations show 18 turns for Aqueduct & HG without chopping but including double speed for HG.
I agree with Sam and Thrallia that we should build hanging gardens asap for the great engineer points. I also agree with Sam and Mark that we should not chop forests to build units unless there's a dire emergency, and we should not chop the forest in Cski in any event.
I also think at this point we should avoid poprushing units - confine poprushing to our infrastructure. If the working assumption is that we're going to take out Alex sometime, but not immediately, then I think we should slowly build our units by adding catapults and a couple of elephants, but only do it as fast as is consistent with building our infrastructure.
But if we can offer the 800 tech AND 150 gold, that may be enough. That's why I'd like to sell a couple of our techs cheaply, even though we're doing it to hostile civs. The hostile civs will probably pick up those techs soon from someone else anyway if we don't sell them to them, and the couple of hundred gold could easily swing the balance to get us a few additional techs from friendly AIs. And ditto that's why I'd like to hold our science on 0% for a few turns if we have a tech we may be able to trade by throwing in gold. 50 or 100 gold might sound small, but it can easily swing us an extra tech or two.
Depends whether we need to use any stored gold. Obviously if it turns out we do need some extra gold for trading, that means we're getting some other nice tech for it, and I'm guessing if we can get an extra tech now then that makes it worth waiting 2-3 more turns for drama? Obviously if it turns out we can do all our trading without any additional gold, then there's no point setting science to zero
All went quietly. Economy coming along. We were able to get the early trades without much trouble. I opted for less military builds and instead built a forge in Lodestone, 2 workboats (for Novgorod &Sparta) and 1 worker (in Moscow almost done)We have 3 and1/2 Cats and severals swords in Sparta. The Galley is still in que In Moscow. Building plantations and cottages. OB's with Vick and Cyrus from the start. Alex Mao continue to build but didn't see anything hostile. Aquaduct finishes this turn in Coppertownski which is stagnant for max hammers. Started theater in Beijing instead of Phant -think culture will be issue before we are ready for Mao.
Turn 200 (500 AD)-Demanded 40G from Alex, Traded Fred Mono for 30G. Cyrus gave us Horseback Riding and COL for our techs and 280G OB with Cyrus to move Galley and OB Vicki for Scout to continue. Turn 201 (515 AD)-Mao converts to Hindu. Lodestone finishes sword>Forge for later increase in pproduction. Traded Gandhi Monarchy for COL Turn 202 (530 AD)-Vicki has Horses,Longbows. Poprush Granary Novgorod (1pop) Research 0%58G,53GPT Turn 203 (545 AD)-Novgorod Granary>Workboat Taoism founded in Gordium?? wherever that is. Turn 204 (560 AD)-Moscow size7. Meet Louis(Annoyed) he founded confusion. Vicki has Horse Archers and Iron. Coppertownski finishes aword and start aquaduct. Turn 205 (575 AD)-Beijing size5. Meet Isabella (Annoyed) she founded Buddism. Vicki has Cats too! Turn 206 (590 AD)- Growing Turn 207 (605 AD)-Sparta finishes Lib starts Cat. Cyrus has Copper,Axes and "Immortals" Scout finishes Vicki heads home. Turn 208 (620 AD)-Drama in start Compass 0%,+53GPT. Gandhi wants Iron for Dye. I convince him he really wants Gems instead of Iron Even though we only have 1 gem at the moment it is an even swap and makes Gandhi happy Beijing finishes Rax start theater Not sure about culture pressure. Turn 209 (635 AD)-Francis Bacon born in St Pete sent him towards New Novgorod?? Poprush forge in Lodestone (2pop) Turn 210 (650 AD)-Beijing size 6, Novgorod size 4 Next turn, Lodestone Forge>elephant Novgorod finishes workboat. Cat ready to unload from Galley at Sparta, Workboat ready to work clams at Novgorod. Scout in Calcutta awaiting transport.
The world resources as we know them:
Here is what was in Autolog:
Spoiler:
Turn 201 (515 AD) Lodestone City begins: Forge Tech learned: Monarchy Christianity has spread: New Novgorod
Turn 202 (530 AD) Moscow begins: Worker New Novgorod grows: 7 Novgorod finishes: Granary Rostov grows: 3 Taoism founded in a distant land
Turn 203 (545 AD) New Novgorod begins: Market Novgorod begins: Work Boat Moscow begins: Work Boat Moscow grows: 7 Coppertownski finishes: Swordsman Beijing's borders expand
Turn 208 (620 AD) Research begun: Compass Beijing begins: Theatre Francis Bacon (Great Scientist) born in St. Petersburg
Turn 209 (635 AD) Lodestone City finishes: Forge Novgorod finishes: Work Boat Beijing grows: 6
Turn 210 (650 AD) Lodestone City begins: War Elephant Novgorod begins: Lighthouse
Here is our Session Turn Log from 500 AD to 650 AD:
Spoiler:
Turn 200, 500 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 200, 500 AD: You have discovered Horseback Riding!
Turn 200, 500 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Galley.
Turn 200, 500 AD: Frederick adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 200, 500 AD: St. John has been born in a far away land!
Turn 200, 500 AD: Hanno has been born in a far away land!
Turn 200, 500 AD: Mao Zedong converts to Hinduism!
Turn 201, 515 AD: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 201, 515 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 201, 515 AD: Geezers adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 201, 515 AD: Christianity has spread in New Novgorod.
Turn 201, 515 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 201, 515 AD: Al-Khwarizmi has been born in a far away land!
Turn 201, 515 AD: Al-Razi has been born in Rome!
Turn 201, 515 AD: Victoria adopts Vassalage!
Turn 201, 515 AD: Victoria adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 202, 530 AD: Taoism has been founded in Gordium!
Turn 202, 530 AD: Alhazen has been born in a far away land!
Turn 202, 530 AD: Julius Caesar's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 203, 545 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Coppertownski. Work has now begun on a Christian Temple.
Turn 203, 545 AD: The borders of Beijing have expanded!
Turn 205, 575 AD: Nicolaus Copernicus has been born in a far away land!
Turn 206, 590 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 206, 590 AD: Huayna Capac adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 207, 605 AD: Victoria has 240 gold available for trade
Turn 207, 605 AD: You have discovered Drama!
Turn 207, 605 AD: You have trained a Catapult in New Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 207, 605 AD: Gandhi adopts Vassalage!
Turn 208, 620 AD: Hatshepsut has 3 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 208, 620 AD: Francis Bacon has been born in St. Petersburg!
Turn 208, 620 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Gandhi
Turn 209, 635 AD: Louis XIV has 50 gold available for trade
Turn 209, 635 AD: Mao Zedong has 4 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 209, 635 AD: St. Petersburg will grow to size 8 on the next turn
Turn 209, 635 AD: Lodestone City will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 209, 635 AD: Novgorod will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 209, 635 AD: Beijing has grown to size 6
Turn 209, 635 AD: Johannes Kepler has been born in a far away land!
Just noticed we had a nice jump on the power graph. Also curious, The Gipsy Kings took quite a power hit in 800AD. Maybe someone declared war on them. hmmmmm? Mao????
Looks like a fairly productive turnset Dagnabit. I think we'll want a few more cats (with promotions) but then we need a few more attack units anyway. We must remember to swap those CR3 units in Beijing with the unpromoted ones in Sparta before we attack Alex.
It's nice to see that we're starting to dominate in the demographics screen.
Just noticed we had a nice jump on the power graph. Also curious, The Gipsy Kings took quite a power hit in 800AD. Maybe someone declared war on them. hmmmmm? Mao????
I just downloaded the file and was looking at it when my puter (as my son call it) kroaked on me. Any way from the look of it we are still quite weak. Sixth IIRC. So I would like to start on more units during the turn set. I will look at the save again and post my thoughts.
BTW good turn set Dagnabit. I am little too weak on pop rushing but I can see the need. I noticed that we are not very high on population, I assume at the moment we are not in hurry to build up.
Stay safe this New Year.....I guess some of you are already living in the future. Later
We should get a jump on population when we get Hanging Gardens. I don't have the info in front of me right now but think we get an extra population in every city. And Happy new year Htadus- by now you have joined us in 2007!
btw now we have drama, we can make 430 gold immediately by selling it to Gandhi and Vicky. That'll let us run research on 100% for a while and would let us get to machinery in 7 turns. If we do that I'd suggest researching machinery rather than compass as we probably won't be able to trade compass for anything, but we should be able to trade machinery for a couple of other techs, including compass and (hopefully) theology. Possibly music too. We can also get another 110 gold by selling Huayna drama, if we're willing to trade with him.
btw now we have drama, we can make 430 gold immediately by selling it to Gandhi and Vicky. That'll let us run research on 100% for a while and would let us get to machinery in 7 turns. If we do that I'd suggest researching machinery rather than compass as we probably won't be able to trade compass for anything, but we should be able to trade machinery for a couple of other techs, including compass and (hopefully) theology. Possibly music too. We can also get another 110 gold by selling Huayna drama, if we're willing to trade with him.
The trades sound interesting. However now that we're at 650 AD I think we need to start thinking about victory. Which means we need to start thinking about
Which civs we want to cultivate?
Which civs are a dead loss as far as voting for us
Which civ do we want as our opponent? I'm beginning to wonder whether we want to keep Mao for that unless there's a bigger civ out here that would be more appropriate. See below on that subject.
Which civs do we want to deter from attacking us?
Which civs do we want to wipe out? Alex is a given, but do we really want/need to attack anyone else?
Discovering who the rest of the civs are. For this we probably want Optics in the not too distant future.
I notice that permanent alliances is switched on. Perhaps that's an area we might want to look into. Maybe a token, or not so token, war against Toku after Alex is out of the way to get to friendly with Ghandhi? DPs with Julius & Vicki? Just speculating at the moment rather than making firm proposals.
EDIT:
Htadus said:
I am little too weak on pop rushing but I can see the need.
I think we're getting towards the stage where we want to grow cities rather than whip them. Exceptions would be captured cities and new cities in my view. Depending on what happens on the war front there may be a benefit in switching to Caste?
EDIT 2:
It's not on our direct path to the UN but should we think about Bureaucracy?
I see AlanH has posted the mid-game spoiler thread. As we don't know all the civs we don't qualify to read or post in it yet. Whether this is an advantage or not is another matter.
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. As far as I'm concerned, the reason I'm thinking more peaceful tactics than I was a couple of turnsets ago is that we now have enough happiness resources for our cities to grow a bit, lots of potential tiles to work cottages on and rather obviously not enough infrastructure to take advantage of that, I'm also worried about our unit maintenance costs, and our situation regarding Mao and Alex has changed: Alex is small and backwards and will be available to take out any time, while Mao now has longbows which means taking any of his cities for the time being is going to be difficult (and possibly best done after he declares war on us rather than the other way round 
) 
Missed that
Beijing finishes Rax start theater Not sure about culture pressure. 
Mao????
I always forget about that option.
