SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
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alright, I'll set back to 0 then 
I was actually going to suggest we all change it to 4000BC is turn 1, that way when we hit a turn number like 10, 20, 30, etc. that means its time to turn over our game(at least, in general)
One thing that will help me using the HOF mod...is it keeps a turn counter at the top next to the year, so I shouldn't accidently go 11 or 12 turns anymore
I was actually going to suggest we all change it to 4000BC is turn 1, that way when we hit a turn number like 10, 20, 30, etc. that means its time to turn over our game(at least, in general)
One thing that will help me using the HOF mod...is it keeps a turn counter at the top next to the year, so I shouldn't accidently go 11 or 12 turns anymore
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
DynamicSpirit said:
It might be as simple as changing which civs are nearby and which resources they have.
hm...that could be true, he never said the civ locations would be identical, only that the civs would identical.
Did he say that none of the new leaders would be used in warlords? Cause from what I've heard Augustus Caesar is worse to be against than Julius.
Here's a thought too...put us on a semi-large island with someone like Vicky who is a pain on vanilla, but would be even worse on Warlords as she gets +50% settler production. That'd make it a race between the team and Vicky to see what won out, faster worker production or faster settler production for taking over the island.
Did he say that none of the new leaders would be used in warlords? Cause from what I've heard Augustus Caesar is worse to be against than Julius.
Here's a thought too...put us on a semi-large island with someone like Vicky who is a pain on vanilla, but would be even worse on Warlords as she gets +50% settler production. That'd make it a race between the team and Vicky to see what won out, faster worker production or faster settler production for taking over the island.
I made 3 test runs founding Moscow on the starting spot and going for an early religion. All 3 times I was 1 turn short founding Hinduism, but I could found Judaism each time, so an early religion might be possible. If we agree to go that route we could have a shot at it. Still we have to see the surroundings first whether there is a better spot, but from the commercial/research side the starting position is not too bad.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Presumably your idea is to use religion to expand our cities a la CFR? Or in other words we won't be converting to whatever religion we might found?
Obviously the question is what techs will be delayed by going for religion?
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
I've only just loaded it up but I notice that you're not using the latest HOF mod (.8 instead of .9) that the game will be using. Time to start downloading.
Mainly I was just curious to see whether it is possible at all to found a religion with that many civs around. Founding a religion is very powerful, so it would be an option we should take into consideration.
I think I would prefer we take over a close neighbor who has founded a religion. I generally like founding religions, but with 17 AI, including every civ that starts with mysticism when we don't, I think any religion earlier than christianity or confuscianism may be too big a gamble.
I started 4 random test games today, saved them and started playing one of them...I didn't notice it was at normal speed until Greece was half conquered by my axes lol
It appears though that in most of my test games, the AI doesn't research sailing very quickly, and that most civs were on their own islands that were big enough for 2-4 cities. Greece happened to be alone on an island big enough for 6-8 cities, so I founded one and took 3 off Alex's hands early
I floundered a little bit after going Fishing>BW>Sailing, as I wasn't sure what direction to go after that. In my test, I went AH>Masonry>Writing>Pottery>IW>Alpha, but I'm not sure that'll be something we want to do.
Writing will be important for early libraries and OB with civs, Pottery won't matter until we have workers, Masonry would be nice for the Great Lighthouse..and I actually found that you could build the Lighthouse in 1000BC and get a Great Merchant early enough that you could get Metal Casting from him before any of the AI had it yet, giving us some really good trade bait.
Also, wonders go fast...on islands the AI doesn't have a lot of extraneous stuff to build, so industrious civs start building wonders fast. Stonehenge was built before 1800BC, and the Oracle was built in 1300BC.
On the plus side, I think I did a bad job overall of teching up through about 100AD, and I had a tech lead over the AI somehow. I don't think the vanilla AI is able to take advantage of sea-based commerce very well.
I started 4 random test games today, saved them and started playing one of them...I didn't notice it was at normal speed until Greece was half conquered by my axes lol
It appears though that in most of my test games, the AI doesn't research sailing very quickly, and that most civs were on their own islands that were big enough for 2-4 cities. Greece happened to be alone on an island big enough for 6-8 cities, so I founded one and took 3 off Alex's hands early
I floundered a little bit after going Fishing>BW>Sailing, as I wasn't sure what direction to go after that. In my test, I went AH>Masonry>Writing>Pottery>IW>Alpha, but I'm not sure that'll be something we want to do.
Writing will be important for early libraries and OB with civs, Pottery won't matter until we have workers, Masonry would be nice for the Great Lighthouse..and I actually found that you could build the Lighthouse in 1000BC and get a Great Merchant early enough that you could get Metal Casting from him before any of the AI had it yet, giving us some really good trade bait.
Also, wonders go fast...on islands the AI doesn't have a lot of extraneous stuff to build, so industrious civs start building wonders fast. Stonehenge was built before 1800BC, and the Oracle was built in 1300BC.
On the plus side, I think I did a bad job overall of teching up through about 100AD, and I had a tech lead over the AI somehow. I don't think the vanilla AI is able to take advantage of sea-based commerce very well.
Regarding religions I think it will depend a bit where we settle. If we settle in place we will have good commerce and good research capabilities, so we might have a shot at it. If we move the settler to a not that commercial area we probably have to take another route. We have to wait what you present to us tomorrow.
Maybe I will create another test game this evening.
Either route will be a gamble.
If we do not have copper around I am not sure that we can take on other AIs very quickly.
Maybe I will create another test game this evening.
Either route will be a gamble.
If we do not have copper around I am not sure that we can take on other AIs very quickly.
I think I'm probably with Thrallia on the early religions. Being able to nab Judaism is an intriguing idea (and I agree having a religion is powerful) but it also means we go a long time without knowing worker techs, or where resources are. Given the AI's lack of skill at dealing with lots-of-water maps I don't think we'll have too much trouble capturing the nearest holy city, wherever that is.
If the AI doesn't get sailing fast, that may give us an opportunity to build the great lighthouse, but only if we can get a city with relatively high production early on. Lighthouse-metal-casting-colossus would certainly be a oowerful combination, but there is still the issue of sacrificing production of workers/settlers. How big an issue that is depends on how quickly the AI grabs the available land and/or whether we can get an early war. The no-city-razing thing does I think make it relatively more favourable for us to found cities (as opposed to capturing them) since we'll probably do a lot better than the AI at city placement. That tends to favour our getting settlers out as fast as possible, and to disfavour anything that detracts from that.
If the AI doesn't get sailing fast, that may give us an opportunity to build the great lighthouse, but only if we can get a city with relatively high production early on. Lighthouse-metal-casting-colossus would certainly be a oowerful combination, but there is still the issue of sacrificing production of workers/settlers. How big an issue that is depends on how quickly the AI grabs the available land and/or whether we can get an early war. The no-city-razing thing does I think make it relatively more favourable for us to found cities (as opposed to capturing them) since we'll probably do a lot better than the AI at city placement. That tends to favour our getting settlers out as fast as possible, and to disfavour anything that detracts from that.
That appears to be very tempting.
Regarding workers/settlers I do not know whether we have to expand really fast. We have to play a fast research game due to the preset victory conditions and as Thrallia I experienced that the AI was not researching sailing very quickly. Workers will be an issue as soon as we have scouted the surroundings a bit. If we do not have much useful around workers might not be a very high priority in the beginning.
We have lots of forests around, so we could chop settlers quickly as soon as we have researched BW.
If we have an AI on our island we also have to rethink our strategy.
I've queried it in the maintenance thread now. AlanH says the maps and leaders are identical in the two versions.
Neat!
In a couple test starts, IW became mandatory relatively early because of all the jungle. I couldn't get Judism if going for IW after sailing,bw, AH. I played around with a different tactic to see the effect. Namely in one start I beelined for 2-3 galleys and built settlers, warriors and went west and north settling island and penninsula effectively cutting off any exloration route for AI until AD. Starting location allowed for enough whipped troops to take 2 close cities and secure iron. If we are thinking great light house/collossus, a sea based empire might let us harrass more AI without having to actually take any cities. Don't know how the maintenance costs of this strategy will hinder research rate.
Sorry about double post What do you make of the increase to +3 health for Peter. I don't think I used that in the test games from the pregame discussion threat test games. Health did become a limiting factor at around 5-6 pop in early game. Do you suppose it will be limiting enough that we will be forced to "borrow" lots of it from the AI in order to grow sufficiently to use hammers and increase research rates to competitive level?If we want a religion we have to go straight for it. Settling in a commercial area and go fishing, myst, poly, masonry, mono. There will be no other chance IMO. The downside of this is slow expansion.
If we go for early expansion then I wouldn't go for any religious techs and trade for them later on. Worker techs will be more important in that scenario and researching towards The Great Lighthouse, Collossus.
If we go for early expansion then I wouldn't go for any religious techs and trade for them later on. Worker techs will be more important in that scenario and researching towards The Great Lighthouse, Collossus.
What do you make of the increase to +3 health for Peter. I don't think I used that in the test games from the pregame discussion threat test games. Health did become a limiting factor at around 5-6 pop in early game. Do you suppose it will be limiting enough that we will be forced to "borrow"
I remember GOTM8 was playing an expansive Civ (also on archipelago/monarch, coincidentally). The main result of the extra health was I scarcely built a single aquaduct the whole game, or any other building where my intention in building it was to solve health issues. Health just wasn't an issue almost the entire game. Other than that it didn't really do much, other than avoid the slower growth between the point where you've become unhealthy and the point where you actually build the aquaduct (or grocer or whatever). Have to say I don't regard it as a particularly useful trait, other perhaps than for settling in strongly jungle/floodplain areas.
so how many people can be here at midnight server time tonight? If we could get most of us here then I'd be able to play more than just our first turn tonight
Oh, the server is at GMT -5, which means East Coast US.
If we could get most of us here then I'd be able to play more than just our first turn tonight Oh, the server is at GMT -5, which means East Coast US.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
so how many people can be here at midnight server time tonight?
Oh, the server is at GMT -5, which means East Coast US.
That's 05:00 to me and I normally get up at about 06:00.
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