SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
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Lets get this party started!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
It's almost time to kick Butt and take names
Youngest Geezer go and make us proud! 
ok, so we've got two great city sites available...our original starting location has 3 spices, 2 clams, and 1 FP along with 5 forests. Although if we chop those, it will basically have no production.
The other one, as far as I'm concerned, is actually to found the city on that hill the scout is on right now. That'd give us 1 clam, 1 fish, 1 stone, 5 forests and 3 visible hills for after chop production.
So we've got to decide, spend 3 more turns to settle on the production site, or spend 2 more turns to settle back where we started?
With just a one turn difference, and at least until Calendar, pretty much similar commerce but with a lot more production, I'd prefer going up North and coming back south again for our next city.
I'll wait to hear back from everyone on this, at least until tomorrow afternoon cause this is a big decision.
Htadus
A and L's dad
My vote is for original site and for a early settler if we are not going for Stonehenge with that stone. But if we are going for the Stonehenge get close to it. 4 tiles north of current position seem to be fine.
Is it even possible to go for a second city that may have a chance at building the stonehenge?
Is it even possible to go for a second city that may have a chance at building the stonehenge?
I highly doubt we can get Stonehenge even if we were to have stayed in place immediately. We've got what, 5 industrious civs against us? And if Gandhi is one of them, he's industrious and starts out with Mysticism so could build it immediately.
Is the hill n-ne of scout forest or Jungle? W is I think. Hard to tell from the screenie but it almost looks like we are on a small island, if not, a very narrow peninsula. Although the extra turns are painful I vote for the increased production. 14-15 raw hammers is a little better than OK and the seafood will get us going quickly. A worker sooner also me thinks. Warrior until workboat,work clams,worker,chop workboat, chop settler,chop workboat for second city south. Tech for the fishing boat, then BW. First impulses.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Well I did post earlier that I wondered why nobody had suggested settling on that hill. 
Joking aside, the extra initial production from the hill does make up for the delay in settling so I would support your suggestion of settling there. Settling 1N of our starting position for the second city seems a good idea. However that can be decided once we explore a bit more more.
Bear in mind that we can start research into Fishing now.
Joking aside, the extra initial production from the hill does make up for the delay in settling so I would support your suggestion of settling there. Settling 1N of our starting position for the second city seems a good idea. However that can be decided once we explore a bit more more.Bear in mind that we can start research into Fishing now.
N-NE is jungle, sorry, I've got Blue Marble installed and zoomed out a bit too far, I think. W of the scout is jungle as well. I expect to find either a civ N of where the scout is or at most room for 2 more coastal cities.
Well I did post earlier that I wondered why nobody had suggested settling on that hill.
Bear in mind that we can start research into Fishing now.
we actually cannot start research until we found a city. As for our second city, I kinda like the original position, it'll only have a 1 tile overlap with our capital, and both will have huge growth potential, with one being a good production city, the other being a great commerce city, especially once we get the Colossus.
If we want to hold on to the forests for a bit and are on a narrow defendable peninsula,I might be inclined to tech to sailing first, build a galley and take a couple warriors East or west to quickly find close Civ and maybe steal a worker while we try and get City 2 put in place.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
You are incorrect.
Research can start immediately. Check out some of the SGOTM02 starts if you don't believe me. Just make sure you don't open any of the SGOTM03 threads by accident. 
I suggested 1N as that means we keep both the flood plains.
I am quite twisted on the two possibilities.
I would slightly favour the original start position for the increased commerce and faster growth potential thus faster research.
So we have (if I got it right)
3 votes for the production site
2 votes for the original site
Let's see what Simon orders.
I would slightly favour the original start position for the increased commerce and faster growth potential thus faster research.
So we have (if I got it right)
3 votes for the production site
2 votes for the original site
Let's see what Simon orders.
3 votes for the production site
2 votes for the original site
Let's see what Simon orders.
Simon has only just woken up and is still half-asleep, so wants another hour or so before committing himself definitely. However he's definitely erring towards the production site. He observes that the high commerce potential of the original site is partially dependant on having pottery (then later, calendar), but noone's yet proposed researching towards pottery immediately. He also observes that one of his predictions about Gyathaar's map has come true (the stone).
The start is most important, so we we should take our time here and everybody should state his opinion and views on it.
I vote for settling on the hill the scout is on. (But: While the settler is moving, Thrallia should keep exploring, I suggest N-NW on turn 2, to make doubly sure that no reason turns up to make the hill a bad move, eg. that it excludes a resource west of the scout). That gives us a high production capital.
I further suggest iinitial production of: warrior-workboat-workboat-settler (assuming circumstances don't force us to build more military early on). If we produce two workboats as soon as we can to work the fish/clam, we'll then be able to use all that food to build a settler very quickly to settle the original starting spot as a commerce centre. Even better: The high production of the capital means it can help the 2nd city off to a good start by building at least one of its workboats for it. I know this means delaying sending a workboat exploring, which is significant, but I think the benefits of getting both a good production and a good commerce centre going early on outweigh that.
My suggestion also runs against conventional wisdom that you build a worker before a settler. I think that's justified here because
I further suggest iinitial production of: warrior-workboat-workboat-settler (assuming circumstances don't force us to build more military early on). If we produce two workboats as soon as we can to work the fish/clam, we'll then be able to use all that food to build a settler very quickly to settle the original starting spot as a commerce centre. Even better: The high production of the capital means it can help the 2nd city off to a good start by building at least one of its workboats for it. I know this means delaying sending a workboat exploring, which is significant, but I think the benefits of getting both a good production and a good commerce centre going early on outweigh that.
My suggestion also runs against conventional wisdom that you build a worker before a settler. I think that's justified here because
- The amount of sea-resources we've got allows rapid settler-build
- In the early game, there's not actually that much a worker can do on the current start, other than chop. (And I've always been a lot more wary of early chopping for settlers ever since chopping got nerfed with the last patch. I'm not totally convinced the relatively small number of turns it now saves you is worth losing forest that could later have been chopped for great library or something similar. And if the capital is to be a production centre for the time being, keeping the forests there may be good anyway).
- There's always the possibility of stealing a worker.
So, we are agreed on the settling spot.
I agree on the production path. There is not much a worker could do at this stage and the clams and fishes are good food suppliers. The other positive thing is that the capital can grow while building the workboats.
What about our tech path ? Fishing is obvious. BW, too I think.
When can animal barbs appear ? It would quite embarrassing if our settler is eaten on the way to the hill.
I agree on the production path. There is not much a worker could do at this stage and the clams and fishes are good food suppliers. The other positive thing is that the capital can grow while building the workboats.
What about our tech path ? Fishing is obvious. BW, too I think.
When can animal barbs appear ? It would quite embarrassing if our settler is eaten on the way to the hill.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
When can animal barbs appear ? It would quite embarrassing if our settler is eaten on the way to the hill.
Certainly not before turn 10 so there should be no problems there. Even if there's a hostile civ nearby we should settle in time. Getting a warrior for defense in time would be another matter.
EDIT: I know Thrallia is keen to motor on but perhaps it might be worth posting another screenshot when he's explored a bit more. I realise that this is a bit of change from our earlier games but perhaps it's no bad thing.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Sums up footy guys in general doesn't it?
Though I suppose they're American football guys so apologies if I've offended anyone.
I agree that another screenshot soonish would be good. It may be that the further exploration changes our minds on where to put the 2nd city. The results of the exploration will certainly be important in deciding how early we need to prioritize sailing.
On research, I'm happy with BW next, after fishing. I want to find out where the resources are.
btw, couple of suggestions: (@Thrallia: Apologies if these have already occurred to you anyway, but just in case).
1. I think once we have BW, a good time to revolt to slavery (assuming we don't need it earlier) is when the settler is on his way to found the 2nd city. That way the revolution only kills output in one city, but still doesn't delay production of the settler.
2. It may be worthwhile micromanaging during initial workboat production - even to the extent of killing growth for the sake of hammers - since we can get a lot more food/turn as soon as the workboat is built.
On research, I'm happy with BW next, after fishing. I want to find out where the resources are.
btw, couple of suggestions: (@Thrallia: Apologies if these have already occurred to you anyway, but just in case).
1. I think once we have BW, a good time to revolt to slavery (assuming we don't need it earlier) is when the settler is on his way to found the 2nd city. That way the revolution only kills output in one city, but still doesn't delay production of the settler.
2. It may be worthwhile micromanaging during initial workboat production - even to the extent of killing growth for the sake of hammers - since we can get a lot more food/turn as soon as the workboat is built.
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